Oval Test result 'to be changed'

[India2011]

Farce, utter farce. I knew the ICC was incompetent but this takes it to a new level. If there is some deal that has been made then it says alot about cricket now.

Shambles.

I agree with every word you said.

If it's a draw when a team doesn't go out to the field, then that means if a team is losing badly and about to lose the game, they refuse to come out to play and it's a draw?

 

[sohum]

If it's a draw when a team doesn't go out to the field, then that means if a team is losing badly and about to lose the game, they refuse to come out to play and it's a draw?

You have obviously used an oversimplification here. If you fail to recognize the events that occurred in that Test match as being different from what happens in any other Test match, then there is no point in trying to explain what happened.

The only precedent that is being set is that if an umpire makes a pretty significant call on cheating without any significant evidence, the accused team complains by refusing to come onto the field, and that the umpire reduces the Test match to a forfeit despite the recommendations of the match referee, that the result in that match may be overturned at a future point in time.

 

[smssia0112]

Umm.... no. There are plenty of sporting bodies that frequently overturn umpires' and referees' decisions when those decisions have been analyzed with more intelligence being applied. The NBA is an example.

It was a poor decision to make this decision now, when the issue had been dead and buried. And if they had to overturn the decision, I believe it would have been better to mark it as an unofficial Test match.

I don't know much about American sports, but the fact is you can't overturn an individual decision because it just opens up extra variables which don't solve anything. A good sporting body backs its umpires for the same reason they hire them - if they didn't want them making decisions, they'd hire a team of video umpires to overrule them in game.

aus5892 added 2 Minutes and 59 Seconds later...

You have obviously used an oversimplification here. If you fail to recognize the events that occurred in that Test match as being different from what happens in any other Test match, then there is no point in trying to explain what happened.

The only precedent that is being set is that if an umpire makes a pretty significant call on cheating without any significant evidence, the accused team complains by refusing to come onto the field, and that the umpire reduces the Test match to a forfeit despite the recommendations of the match referee, that the result in that match may be overturned at a future point in time.

Again, you seem to be drawing this into an issue of no evidence. The issue here is not why he made the decision but that he made it. Over the past 2 years the ICC have shown beyond all doubt that they do not support their umpires. They sacked Hair because Pakistan complained, they demoted Bucknor because India complained, now they've overturned a decision made 2 years ago which completely undermines the umpires' decisions. As an umpire in Australian football, I can tell you right now that if my league overturned a decision I made, I would be mighty annoyed at them because it undermines me and undermines the umpire's call is final rule.

 

[Deleted member 11215]

Im sick to death of the pakistan team and the ICC. Pakistan are crap at cricket and have been for a long time its just they cant seem to accept this and have to result to childish behaviour to get results. They refused to take to the field meaning they forfeited the game, since when is a forfeit a draw?

As for the ICC... what can i say? A Disgrace to the world of cricket.

 

[lancashire666]

Im sick to death of the pakistan team and the ICC. Pakistan are crap at cricket and have been for a long time its just they cant seem to accept this and have to result to childish behaviour to get results. They refused to take to the field meaning they forfeited the game, since when is a forfeit a draw?

As for the ICC... what can i say? A Disgrace to the world of cricket.

correct, lets have the MCC running it again!

 

[Deleted member 11215]

:hpraise:hpraise MCC! :hpraise:hpraise

Lets have the real guys running it.

 

[Insomniac]

This is ridiculous. You guys are acting as if Pakistan were 100/9 chasing 500.

Pakistan were well and truly in front in that game. No doubts about it.

This discussion SHOULD NOT be about the idea that if your team is losing you sit in the dressing room. The fact is that Pakistan were well and truly in front in that game, and the best England could hope for is a draw.

I really don't know what game you guys were watching, but from my point of view, Pakistan were going to win late on Day 5. If you guys are thinking that Inzamam and his men were trying to avoid a loss, then I think you need to check into a mental asylum.

Let me honestly tell you something. Had Pakistan gone on with the game, probably winning late on Day 5, and then staged a protest at The Oval, who would be there to listen? Inzamam would be slapped with a 9-match ban (5 matches for ball tampering and 4 for bringing the game into disrepute - protest). This would take Inzamam out of the ICC CT and the ODIs v West Indies (at our home)

And guess what? Almost every single one of you would be declaring Pakistan as BALL TAMPERERS and CHEATS for the next 10 years. And you know it. Everytime Pakistan would win a game, we would be referred to as cheats and ball tamperers. Every time one of our bowlers got a 5-wicket haul you would say we tampered with the ball.

What Inzamam did has avoided this. You may call us sissies for sitting in the dressing-room, but the fact that we proved that we did not tamper with the cricket ball is all that we wanted. And we got it.

Referring to the decision to change the Oval Test - it doesn't matter at all. If anything Pakistan should have got a win for it

And to be honest, PCB announced in our local newspaper that they would put the matter forward, and if their request was denied, then so be it. They were not very bothered in all honesty because it barely affects the ICC Test Rankings (AFAIK) and it was a little under 2 years ago.

 

[usy]

Im sick to death of the pakistan team and the ICC. Pakistan are crap at cricket and have been for a long time its just they cant seem to accept this and have to result to childish behaviour to get results. They refused to take to the field meaning they forfeited the game, since when is a forfeit a draw?

As for the ICC... what can i say? A Disgrace to the world of cricket.

hold on, respect for Pakistan Cricket please. *patriotic*

usy added 1 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...

This is ridiculous. You guys are acting as if Pakistan were 100/9 chasing 500.

Pakistan were well and truly in front in that game. No doubts about it.

This discussion SHOULD NOT be about the idea that if your team is losing you sit in the dressing room. The fact is that Pakistan were well and truly in front in that game, and the best England could hope for is a draw.

I really don't know what game you guys were watching, but from my point of view, Pakistan were going to win late on Day 5. If you guys are thinking that Inzamam and his men were trying to avoid a loss, then I think you need to check into a mental asylum.

Let me honestly tell you something. Had Pakistan gone on with the game, probably winning late on Day 5, and then staged a protest at The Oval, who would be there to listen? Inzamam would be slapped with a 9-match ban (5 matches for ball tampering and 4 for bringing the game into disrepute - protest). This would take Inzamam out of the ICC CT and the ODIs v West Indies (at our home)

And guess what? Almost every single one of you would be declaring Pakistan as BALL TAMPERERS and CHEATS for the next 10 years. And you know it. Everytime Pakistan would win a game, we would be referred to as cheats and ball tamperers. Every time one of our bowlers got a 5-wicket haul you would say we tampered with the ball.

What Inzamam did has avoided this. You may call us sissies for sitting in the dressing-room, but the fact that we proved that we did not tamper with the cricket ball is all that we wanted. And we got it.

Referring to the decision to change the Oval Test - it doesn't matter at all. If anything Pakistan should have got a win for it

And to be honest, PCB announced in our local newspaper that they would put the matter forward, and if their request was denied, then so be it. They were not very bothered in all honesty because it barely affects the ICC Test Rankings (AFAIK) and it was a little under 2 years ago.

Inzi did wrong apart from that Top-knotch post.

 

[Insomniac]

hold on, respect for Pakistan Cricket please. *patriotic*

usy added 1 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...



Inzi did wrong apart from that Top-knotch post.

As we look at it 2 years from now, it may seem that there was a better way of handling the situation. Such as playing 1 over, and then walking off the field (Which would not have declared in a forfeit, because other teams have done it in similar circumstances)

But I respect the man for standing up to Darrell Hair and his incompetent judgement that to this day prevents us from the abuse from many English and Australian fans...

We're still not ball-tamperers boys... and hopefully never will be.

 

[usy]

:hpraise:hpraise MCC! :hpraise:hpraise

Lets have the real guys running it.

free ma son

 

[Sureshot]

As we look at it 2 years from now, it may seem that there was a better way of handling the situation. Such as playing 1 over, and then walking off the field (Which would not have declared in a forfeit, because other teams have done it in similar circumstances)

But I respect the man for standing up to Darrell Hair and his incompetent judgement that to this day prevents us from the abuse from many English and Australian fans...

We're still not ball-tamperers boys... and hopefully never will be.

No, you just get abuse from English and Australian fans for letting your players get away with anything they please.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/7490924.stm

I've always respected his view, doesn't surprise me at all. They forfeited the game, how can it be a draw? Complete farce, completely unneeded and has resulted in the resignation of one of the most respected people in world cricket.

 

[Simbazz]

Michael Holding has resigned from the ICC, just read it on the BBC.

My opinion. It now opens a door for all teams to do similar. If a bowler is no-balled several times, even if its right, it gives the captain and management of a side the window of opportunity to say "Right lads, we're not taking the field," and due to the ICC now changing this result, it means that effectively the match should be called a draw.

In my opinion, i have no respect for the PCB. I'm not going to personalise with the players, as it was effectively the managements decision, although i am going to say Inzi did look pretty sure on his decision, and I think its wrong. They brought the game into disrespute, and should be punished for it. Ok they didnt ball tamper, but still they didn't take the field.

The PCB are much like the BCCI, they want full control of everything in Cricket, and thats the wrong attitude. I dislike both boards and what they stand for. After this, i've now lost all respect for the ICC, and they've just lost a well liked member of thier panel.

As Sureshot said, he was a respected member, none more so than the Sky sports commentary crew who really did look for his insight into things in the game. A modest man, who when he speaks, you have to respect his view. Mainly because he hasn't a wrong word about anyone.

 

[usy]

it's nothing to moan and debate about, everything sucks, aigght you win that test match, take it, keep it, love it. we lost the series anyway,

not a big deal.

2009 we kick England ass, .

 

[nightprowler10]

As I've said before, it was absolutely stupid for the PCB to bring this up, even stupider for the ICC to grant this, but why isn't anyone holding the ECB responsible? They had absolutely no problem with this. Why the hell not?

 

[usy]

because ECB know better, they care about chilling in the hot summer :cool:, not like PCB who's got nothing else to do, but copy BCCI.