Pakistan Team Discussion

[Satan666]

Bold opinion but I feel that PCB should have not made Shaheen play the world cup.

Think it was a knee injury? From personal experience knee injuries never heal 100%. Permanent issues.

 

[CerealKiller]

Doctor clears you based on reports and outside-the-ground requisites to deem someone fit to play.

But once the players starts practicing in the nets, the wear and tear happens and the real-time picture is understood. Here is where the selectors and the board has to take a decision.

Shaheen wasn't looking comfortable while bowling. His pace wasn't as quick as he usually is. There was always a niggle here and there. Pretty sure the staff and the board members must be aware of this fact.

They could have managed Shaheen better.

Yes, his pace was down. But i guess you can’t get back to your previous pace immediately. Also, I believe he would have never agreed to be rested if cleared by doctors.

 

[Ahmad94]

In my opinion - I have a few radical changes that I would like to make.

1) Babar Azam is a quality player and good enough to walk in to any side - I just don't see the point of him captaining the side. I feel like he made a lot of mistakes with the capitancy and with both him and Rizwan at the top- the start is always slow. Might be worth having a rotation policy kind of approach for him so he doesn't have to play every series because he will burn out and we need him more for the longer formats
2) Take the keeping away from Rizwan - he is an exceptional keeper but I would much rather have him as a full time batter and fielder and I don't want to overstress him. He is not in his early 20's anymore and if I am not mistaken, he has a prescription pillow to help assist him. We have good options
3) Don't want to give Shadab the captaincy - no need to make him bat, bowl, field and captain. Let him enjoy the game an contribute

My XI:
1) Mohammad Rizwan
2) Mohammad Haris (wk)
3) Shan Masood
4) Iftikhar Chacha
5) Azam Khan
6) Shadab Khan
7) Mohammad Nawaz
8) Mohammad Wasim
9) Naseem Shah
10) Haris Rauf
11) Shaheen Shah Afridi/Shahnawaz Dahani

Aggresive start with Haris batting in the powerplay - allows the anchor role to play the anchor and takes pressure of him. If he goes early, no issues - we have a left/right combo with Shan Masood, can clear the boundary and play at a decent strike rate. Ifti has show a lot of maturity in the middle order and feel its unfair to drop him - but we need proper power and I think Azam Khan might be an idea as someone to blossom for that role. He did a good job in the CPL recently alongside Rakeem Cornwall. Importantly, no point bringing him in at 18/19 over and telling him to strike (don't want another case of Asif Ali). Bring him in at 14/15 over and give him an opportunity to get his eye in and let him swin after (Hardik Pandya esque) - 6 genuine full time bowlers and actually use Nawaz as a genuine bowler - he has the potential to hold his own.

Plus - bring in more seamers and give Shaheen a little break. He can't play every ODI, T20 and Test consistently - that is just ridiculous.

That would be my approach for T20.

 

[Bevab]

You are speaking in hindsight though. If top notch doctors clear him, i see no reason to hold him back.

I don’t think it is that simple when it comes to sports medicine. Many a tale exists of medical professionals being forced to clear a player early from injury and/or giving their cautionary release that is misinterpreted by other parties.

If you do have the link to any statement from the doctors who worked with him in the UK I’d be delighted as I’m curious regarding their exact words. To me Shaheen appeared to be off pace and whilst I do know that he’s bowled in the 130s and low 140s for large parts of his career without truly bowlint close to 150 it did seem like he was holding back a bit… even if he did improve as the tournament went on.

I might also be talking absolute tripe with my speculation as it is also likely for him to have aggravated the injury due to being short of match fitness and having to bowl continuously at high intensity in a WC.

 

[CerealKiller]

My XI:
1) Mohammad Rizwan
2) Mohammad Haris (wk)
3) Shan Masood
4) Iftikhar Chacha
5) Azam Khan
6) Shadab Khan
7) Mohammad Nawaz
8) Mohammad Wasim
9) Naseem Shah
10) Haris Rauf
11) Shaheen Shah Afridi/Shahnawaz Dahani

Babar is never being dropped, yaar
I fear Iftikhar will be scapegoated

 

[Ahmad94]

Babar is never being dropped, yaar
I fear Iftikhar will be scapegoated

I know man, its disappointing. What's the point of wasting a generational talent by overplaying him - give him rest and time to be his best and the big scores will come.

 

[CerealKiller]

I don’t think it is that simple when it comes to sports medicine. Many a tale exists of medical professionals being forced to clear a player early from injury and/or giving their cautionary release that is misinterpreted by other parties.

If you do have the link to any statement from the doctors who worked with him in the UK I’d be delighted as I’m curious regarding their exact words. To me Shaheen appeared to be off pace and whilst I do know that he’s bowled in the 130s and low 140s for large parts of his career without truly bowlint close to 150 it did seem like he was holding back a bit… even if he did improve as the tournament went on.

I might also be talking absolute tripe with my speculation as it is also likely for him to have aggravated the injury due to being short of match fitness and having to bowl continuously at high intensity in a WC.

I think the latter is the case. His rehab was handled by Dr. Zafar Iqbal, the head doctor at Crystal Palace FC, a Premier League club, at their own facilities. He's a pretty renowned doctor, so i doubt he would be pressurised into anything.

 

[Aislabie]

So, what do I think this Pakistan side can do to build for the next World Cup?

First of all, the tournament is in 2024 so with very few exceptions age is not an issue. The issues in this tournament were twofold: boundary hitting, and workload management. Let's start with the boundary hitting:

Pakistani players with highest PSL career strike rates (balls per six in brackets)
1. Asif Ali - 158.75 (8.10 bp6) - has 55 T20I caps
2. Shahid Afridi - 150.80 (8.64 bp6) - is retired and has 99 T20I caps
3. Hasan Ali - 148.06 (18.43 bp6) - is not a batter and has 50 T20I caps
4. Faheem Ashraf - 146.10 (12.85 bp6) - has 42 T20I caps
5. Khushdil Shah - 143.26 (11.70 bp6) - has 24 T20I caps
6. Sharjeel Khan - 141.46 (10.65 bp6) - is barely match-fit and has 21 T20I caps
7. Umar Akmal - 141.08 (12.73 bp6) - has a chronic personality failure and 84 T20I caps
8. Fakhar Zaman - 138.79 (19.14 bp6) - has 72 T20I caps
9. Haider Ali - 137.87 (14.96 bp6) - has 33 T20I caps
10. Shadab Khan - 137.69 (13.51 bp6) - has 84 T20I caps
(11 to 16 are: Kamran Akmal, Shan Masood, Azam Khan, Anwar Ali, Ahsan Ali, Wahab Riaz - the rest fall off the table with strike rates lower than 130.)

One thing that a look at this list shows us is that the selectors are absolutely doing everything they can to eke a strong batting team out of this player pool. Even Ahsan Ali has been given a go in the Pakistan side, opening the batting against Bangladesh, and he still has a two-line Cricinfo profile from his time with the under-19s. It's no wonder then that the selectors have started going off-piste and picking players up based on their exploits in the National T20 Cup, or on sheer vibes and potential; players like Aamer Jamal who has shone in a dozen games for Northern Pakistan, or Mohammad Haris who has had one breakout year in the PSL. These aren't bad selections (they are very Pakistan selections), but they do speak of a talent pool that might not be showing itself off too well.

It is also worth looking at the batters from the Pakistan T20WC squad who I've not mentioned yet and their PSL stats:
Iftikhar Ahmed - 118.30 (20.71 bp6)
Babar Azam - 121.13 (53.84 bp6)
Mohammad Rizwan - 123.90 (37.65 bp6)

Now conventional wisdom says that only one of those players should ever be in the team at the same time, but both Babar and Rizwan have been essential to the Pakistan team, each averaging over 40 at a rate of over 7.50 runs per over in international matches. They have also achieved incredible things at times, with eight of Pakistan's 12 century opening partnerships in this format. As a partnership, their average opening stand is one of 50 runs from 6.2 overs a. This isn't a bad return from a powerplay, but there is certainly a strong argument for experimenting with specialist powerplay hitters to get the innings off to a faster start, even if the Babar-Rizwan partnership remains their Plan A.

Iftikhar has no place anywhere near the squad. Iftikhar Ahmed has played 43 T20 internationals.

And now onto the second problem, workload management.

Sometimes Shaheen Afridi cannot play every game and that's okay. There should be a pool of approximately eight seam bowlers ready to take to the field at any given time, and based on Pakistan's recent selections they appear to be:

Haris Rauf
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Mohammad Wasim
Hasan Ali
Mohammad Hasnain
Nasim Shah
Shahnawaz Dahani
Faheem Ashraf

Honestly that's not a bad group of fast bowlers, I would just like to see the workload - especially in bilaterals - shared around between them better. It might also be worth looking at a few bolters like Dilbar Hussain, Mohammad Imran (the left-armer) and Khurram Shahzad to see if any of them could offer anything to the team. Maybe give Rumman Raees another go.

As for the spinners, Shadab is worth his place with both bat and ball; either one of Nawaz, Wasim or Khushdil (seriously why has he only bowled two overs for Pakistan) can do a job, and I'd love to see what Abrar Ahmed can do.

- - - - -

So I think my very controversial observation here is that the Pakistan selectors have been doing the best they can with the information available to them. And that information is extensive - anyone who's even vaguely adjacent to the T20 side has played dozens of times for their country.

I don't have quick answers, only suggestions - and those are:

• Get Azam Khan a personal trainer and see if you can help him to improve his fitness and his game at the same time
• Try Mohammad Haris, Fakhar Zaman and possibly Shadab Khan as powerplay hitters. Keep the best one or two in that role.
• Ideally have Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan to come after the powerplay hitters; liable to slide down the order out of the way if that's what suits the situation.
• Keep a careful eye on Basit Ali and Shawaiz Irfan's development. They showed real skills in the PJL.
• Mohammad Faizan Khan and Saim Ayub both also did unusually well in the National T20 Cup.
• Shaheen doesn't have to play every game.

As for how those suggestions fit together in an XI to face the West Indies in January, perhaps something like:

1. Mohammad Haris
2. Fakhar Zaman
3. Babar Azam
4. Mohammad Rizwan (may drop down the order)
5. Haider Ali
6. Shadab Khan
7. Khushdil Shah
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Mohammad Wasim
10. Haris Rauf or Nasim Shah
11. Dilbar Hussain

This is not a full-strength team. This is all about learning, especially against the West Indies.

 

[ddrap14]

Iftikhar has no place anywhere near the squad. Iftikhar Ahmed has played 43 T20 internationals.

It wasn't exactly Iftikhar's fault that he was forced to bowl a high-pressure over - that wasn't any Pakistan player's fault, injuries happen - but definitely, he didn't seem at the level in the final, whether with bat or ball. 0 off 6 isn't a match-losing contribution, but it can have flow-on effects - and it certainly seemed to.

I'd only do a couple of things differently:
1. I'd leave Rizwan up the top. I think you can have good success with a stabiliser and a hitter opening the batting. I've never really seen Babar as an opener, so he can drop down.
2. I agree the Windies side should be about development, but maybe also add one or two of the young guys you talked about to that squad. Development's plenty important. A young bat can come in for Fakhar, who I still wouldn't trust yet with that knee.
3. With all due respect to Dilbar's mighty mustache, I watched him a couple times with the Stars and haven't seen many worse imports. Maybe he's good on slower tracks - I haven't seen him back in Pakistan, so I can't comment there - but I feel like that's an immensely questionable selection.

 

[Bevab]

Rizwan should be opening IMO. I feel he’s got more aggression in his game than Babar by a slight margin. I also believe Babar would fit a number three role better than Rizwan would. A lot of the times when Rizwan faces plenty of deliveries he usually turns that into a match winning knock or a performance that gives a good platform. Until recently he had only a handful of performances where he seemed to waste deliveries. I’m not sure of Babar‘s numbers on this aspect as I did not have a look. Wonder if Babar would be willing to drop down though, Wasim Akram did claim that Babar preferred opening in not so nice words and moving your most skilled batter away from his favoured position is a tale that often ends poorly in folklore….

I think Iftikhar isn’t needed as a specialist pace hitter for the next WC given it’s in West Indies where pitches have been very slow. His bowling could be useful but I don’t rate it as anything more than a part-time seventh option and Babar seems unwilling quite often to make use of his talent as a sixth bowler when he has the option of him or Khushdil let alone a seventh. Time to groom Azam Khan into the side and see what he’s capable of, the CPL experience will only help.

 

[ahmedleo414]

Dilbar Hussain

Dilbar had one good season two years ago. Unfortunately he hasn't performed at all since then. I would rather take Hasan Ali before Dilbar

Khushdil Shah

I feel like khushdil has been given a fair shake at the international level, he needs to back to the domestic level before being given another chance. I agree he was wasted by not being allowed to bowl but he was picked based on his batting and he did not perform at all.

Faheem Ashraf

I don't know who he pissed off to be taken off the team when was starting to get into form. I just hope he can find his form back

 

[CerealKiller]

This is not a full-strength team. This is all about learning, especially against the West Indies.

Will reply fully later, but that Windies series has been cancelled. The next T20I assignment would be against a second-string New Zealand (thanks to the IPL), after the PSL concludes.

 

[Khan Sahab54]

Reports say Shaheen is gonna miss England and New Zealand series.

 

[Rehan_24]

So what's the road ahead in T20Is and ODIs, guys? What changes do you propose
@ahmedleo414 @Na Maloom Afraad @AsadRM @Rehan_24 @Ahmad94 @Khan Sahab54

Hooff.. First of all, still getting back from Melbourne spiritually. Secondly, thanks for the question that would ease me off a bit. I would certainly want some big changes with the squad. We have to go back to domestic circuit to see what we have in plate and inject some fresh T20 talent into the side. PSL should not be the only criteria. I would vouch for the following players pool to make a 15 Members Squad for the T20 games.

Muhammad Haris, Muhammad Rizwan, Babar Azam, Shan Masood, Sohaib Maqsood, Azam Khan, Muhammad Nawaz, Fahim Ashraf, Shadab Khan, Naseem Shah, Shaheen Shah Afridi, Haris Rauf, Usman Qadir, Imad Wasim, Sahibzada Farhan, Fakhar Zaman, and A Young Pace Bowler from Islamabad United (Forgot his name, he bowled out Babar Azam in last PSL then he got injured).

I would say out loud to send back Waseem Jr, Haider Ali, Khushdil Shah, and Asif Ali to domestic cricket and bring them back only when they score consistently in the domestic games.

 

[Ahmad94]

I would say out loud to send back Waseem Jr, Haider Ali, Khushdil Shah, and Asif Ali to domestic cricket and bring them back only when they score consistently in the domestic games.

What difference will that make? Clearly, the domestic structure doesn't have the level of competition or the quality to allow players to come out at that level -e.g. Khushdil has been the strongest power hitter in Pakistani domestic for some time (that includes the fastest T20 century). He was arguably one of the best bowlers in the last PSL for Multan Sultans.

Can't keep blaming Asif Ali when you give him 6/7 balls a game and expect him to score 4 sixes a game from that. He is set up for failure. Its more about the approach then the players themselves.

Waseem Jr has been the second-highest wicket-taker for us in ODI and T20 since the last year.