Patch Discussion - PS4 (1.09), Xbox One (1.0.0.10) and Steam

[Deleted member 185125]

It was fixed then became wonky again after people were saying AI were scoring too many..

Apart from those two overs, the AI batted pretty well according to T20. I will need to stop bowling now, since batting second, AI always fails to achieve the target.
And has the patching stopped for sure?

 

[francisjery]

dear pros, any tips on how to avoid edges? especially against fast bowlers when they bowl outside off, feel tough to handle. Playing in legend mode in random online matches. Sure you guys have some great experience. Pls gimme some tips on this.

No way you can avoid edge. It's waste asking here, since the develepor is only concerned about AI Batting and bowling. No use even if you scream that there are problems, bugs and glitches in online gameplay

 

[Deleted member 46200]

Yes timing window has changed but what was the need to change it?? Also why every mistimed shot has to be knicked and go straight to a fielder??? Uber realistic right...

Reading some comments make me wonder how people are starved for a reasonable cricket game. They fall for anything they are fed with....

The timing window has been tightened up and feels 'more' organic and rewards good timing from bad if you feel you can't effectively bat then drop a level or increase the timing window through sliders.... I have had mistimed shots go near fielders... Are you sure you're not just playing aggressively.

 

[Deleted member 46200]

As mentioned previously going down a level makes the game very easy to play, before the patch Hard difficulty was the perfect spot for me.

Since yesterday I started playing as a Star Career player and definitely things are much better there. I played on Hard/Hard/Hard/Pro, made a couple of hundreds no problem or complaints. This obviously explains that I have been getting edges left/right and centre due to the fact that my Career player do not have enough XP on him (I think its around 60 or 70) as compared to the star player who is around 90. So in other words they are saying more we play better they will get by earning more XP which in my opinion is a bad logic as a good player is still a good player does not matter if he is playing his 1st or a 400th match. Using their logic players like Martin Guptill, KL Rahul, Andy Flower and others would never have scored a century on their respective debuts?

Anyhow I just wanted to add my two cents probably the best way forward is skip career play for now for me.

Ah okay.... Have you tinkered with the timing sliders?[DOUBLEPOST=1530857957][/DOUBLEPOST]

It's not even 24 hours since you found out about the timing change, so why not give it a bit more time.

If a spoilt child wishes to drop their lollies then we need to let it happen... I feel batting has sharpened up considerably.

 

[Deleted member 46200]

No way you can avoid edge. It's waste asking here, since the develepor is only concerned about AI Batting and bowling. No use even if you scream that there are problems, bugs and glitches in online gameplay

You can.... It's called timing and practice... Just between us the developer is spending all their time implementing Alice bands into the game... But hush x

 

[Deleted member 46200]

All of you guys have tried with star player only? Can anybody confirm even after playing with custom player you guys dint get chance to play a 50 over World Championship!

I play as a mercenary T20 player earning shed loads of cash... Cricket... What's that anyhow!

 

[Wealey]

Exactly why I would hope for a serious rework to AI in the next iteration. If the options are currently only: "AI can hit every ball for a boundary no matter what" or "AI doesn't even try to score runs" then something is seriously wrong with how it's set up.

I wouldn’t even bother to pretend that I had any idea how programming AI works!

I enjoy this game more than any other before though so.

 

[Spoobir]

I wouldn’t even bother to pretend that I had any idea how programming AI works!

I enjoy this game more than any other before though so.

Hey, I'm not saying it's not difficult. Of course it is.

I don't know much about programming either but I have dealt a lot with programmers in my career and usually how it works is I give them the outline of what I want the program to achieve and then they go sort out the nitty-gritty of the code. Considering we've had many, many tweaks to the numbers and only really end up flipping from one extreme to another, I think it is quite likely that it is the basic outline that is causing the issue. A gameplay design issue rather than a specific coding issue if you get my meaning. This is something plebs like us that know bugger all about programming could actually help with.

 

[Damien Braganza]

Given most of us aren't facing this issue, I've to ask, which bowler and under what conditions?

Just to test it out, how about you bowl with Jimmy Anderson on a green pitch with overcast conditions.

I have tested 2 bowlers on grassy surface with overcast conditions. One a fully maxed out custom player and another on disc Jimmy Anderson. Bowled 10 overs each. Results: In swing trajectory after pitching is same for both bowlers. Outswings trajectory has been inconsistent for both. There were times when outswing deliveries would nip back in (sounds like reverse swing but it is impossible to occur within the first 10 overs of the match when the ball is still new). I am facing this issue after the April update and have been scratching my head ever since. Also I find this strange that no other community member has come across this problem. It may seem that I suck at bowling but I actually don’t. Prior to that update I had around 200 wickets in 30 odd test matches in career mode.

 

[blockerdave]

I wouldn’t even bother to pretend that I had any idea how programming AI works!

I enjoy this game more than any other before though so.

One of the biggest issues/constraints is the fact so much needs to happen on the fly on real time. When there is also a limit on computing power - especially on consoles - that limits the complexity they can have in terms of number of variables. They could have the worlds greatest AI expert on their team, but those sort of constraints would still exist.

I’m doing a lot around AI and machine learning in my job and this is for business and it’s acceptable for us to take minutes or even longer to process something (depending on the specific case) and even so we are always conscious of if we add this complexity, it adds x amount of accuracy but adds y amount of time, or requires z amount of extra computational power/cost and working out the trade offs of whether it’s worth it.

They need stuff that can be calculated in a fraction of a second by a console - that’s gonna limit what’s achievable

 

[Spoobir]

One of the biggest issues/constraints is the fact so much needs to happen on the fly on real time. When there is also a limit on computing power - especially on consoles - that limits the complexity they can have in terms of number of variables. They could have the worlds greatest AI expert on their team, but those sort of constraints would still exist.

I’m doing a lot around AI and machine learning in my job and this is for business and it’s acceptable for us to take minutes or even longer to process something (depending on the specific case) and even so we are always conscious of if we add this complexity, it adds x amount of accuracy but adds y amount of time, or requires z amount of extra computational power/cost and working out the trade offs of whether it’s worth it.

They need stuff that can be calculated in a fraction of a second by a console - that’s gonna limit what’s achievable

I think the biggest issue I've come up with while thinking about this is: What constitutes a "good" or "bad" delivery? Try answering that one simply.

 

[TerryAlderman]

I have tested 2 bowlers on grassy surface with overcast conditions. One a fully maxed out custom player and another on disc Jimmy Anderson. Bowled 10 overs each. Results: In swing trajectory after pitching is same for both bowlers. Outswings trajectory has been inconsistent for both. There were times when outswing deliveries would nip back in (sounds like reverse swing but it is impossible to occur within the first 10 overs of the match when the ball is still new). I am facing this issue after the April update and have been scratching my head ever since. Also I find this strange that no other community member has come across this problem. It may seem that I suck at bowling but I actually don’t. Prior to that update I had around 200 wickets in 30 odd test matches in career mode.

Mate.....you can have a field day on the pace bowling alone in this game. Try a few overs bowling cutters. With different choices of seam positions you can bowl inswinging off cutters or outswinging off cutters......and similar with the leg cutters. Give it a try.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

I think the biggest issue I've come up with while thinking about this is: What constitutes a "good" or "bad" delivery? Try answering that one simply.

It's pretty straightforward against pace. Human reaction time tops out at about 0.15 of a second, so to bowl an absolute jaffa you need to find 2 inches of deviation in that last 0.15 of the delivery.

So, a half volley is easy to hit because there isn't enough distance between bounce and bat to find enough movement to get the edge.

With a long hop, the ball is bouncing way short of the 0.15 zone, so even if it deviates a long way a good player has plenty of time to see the degree of deviation and adjust.

Full toss, you can pick the interception point out of the hand.

Swing is more nuanced to implement but the same principle applies - banana swing that starts out of the hand gives you plenty of time to adjust, whereas with really late swing you've already started your shot.

The complex stuff to model is batting vs spin, because that's all about knowing which way the ball is going to spin beforehand.

 

[Spoobir]

It's pretty straightforward against pace. Human reaction time tops out at about 0.15 of a second, so to bowl an absolute jaffa you need to find 2 inches of deviation in that last 0.15 of the delivery.

So, a half volley is easy to hit because there isn't enough distance between bounce and bat to find enough movement to get the edge.

With a long hop, the ball is bouncing way short of the 0.15 zone, so even if it deviates a long way a good player has plenty of time to see the degree of deviation and adjust.

Full toss, you can pick the interception point out of the hand.

Swing is more nuanced to implement but the same principle applies - banana swing that starts out of the hand gives you plenty of time to adjust, whereas with really late swing you've already started your shot.

Ok, but you can't just base it on how much movement here is in the air/off the pitch. A ball that swings two feet down leg isn't a good ball is it?

We could say generally a ball that is around off-stump is a "good delivery" and one around there with movement is maybe a "great delivery". But that doesn't account for all good deliveries. What about a yorker? Or a short-ball at the ribs? That could be a great delivery on a fast/bouncy pitch but a not so great on a slow one.

And we haven't even started going into different formats where there is rarely any movement. A length ball around off-stump might be great in the first over of a test-match, but is a terrible ball in the last over a T20.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

Ok, but you can't just base it on how much movement here is in the air/off the pitch.

No, but it's the key factor to model, imo. If the ball deviates unpredictably in the 0.15 window for a batsman with 0.15 reactions, it's functionally impossible for him to get it in the middle of the bat except by accident. That's a lot of explanatory power in terms of good and bad cricket shots.

What about a yorker?

Well, the obvious bit is that it's a good delivery because you physically can't get anything but the toe of the bat on it. If the physics is correct that aspect sorts itself out. Similarly, balls zooming down the legside, because any nicks are much more likely to run down to fine leg than generate catchable chances - partially because the keeper is the wrong side of the shot to sight it and there's no legside cordon.

The more complex / difficult to model issue with the yorker is that you have to move your head the furthest distance of any delivery to track the ball to the interception point. Really extreme shift to get a good look at your own feet, and v difficult to time eye/head movement correctly vs pace.

Or a short-ball at the ribs? That could be a great delivery on a fast/bouncy pitch but a not so great on a slow one.

On a slow, flat pitch vs a decent batsman it's a long hop. Rib high is perfect for the pull shot - but the thing about it is that you have to make contact with the ball early, with your arms extended in front of you.

Similarly, short balls from medium pacers are always long hops. It's always a crap ball to a decent batsman. Reaction time / predictability really is key here.

A length ball around off-stump might be great in the first over of a test-match, but is a terrible ball in the last over a T20.

And it's terrible-ness is largely explicable in terms of lack of deviation, isn't it?

The whole idea of T20 is that you bat in a way that won't usually work vs good bowling, so the pitches have to be doctored to remove this key aspect of good deliveries.

eta obv there's a further discussion about good wicket taking deliveries vs good containing deliveries.

Also, key aspect of good bowling is that you assess how much deviation is available - and whether that deviation is late enough to beat the batsman's reaction time - in picking your length.

If you know there's no movement and the oppo batsman must attempt big shots, a length ball is clearly a crap idea.