Pick your England team for the first test next summer

[barmyarmy]

Bell was comfortably our best player in the first series though.

 

[ChinamanSpin]

can we drop ian bell? I know that doesn't seem to be on anyones mind but everyone else is getting to blame people and I really don't like ian bell. I'm prepared to accept stokes in the team though on account of his performances in the ashes, even if I think another batsman should be on the radar.

If Trott was currently in the side, I'd want Bell to be dropped. Pietersen has a better record than Bell in the last couple of years and Compton had a better record to Bell when they were in the side together. The only reason Bell has played nearly 100 tests is because he looks good. If his style was of the Compton type he would have been dropped ages ago. The way that he gives his wicket away cheaply several times every series is also worse than Pietersen. Pietersen gets out trying to hit a four. Bell gets out trying to chip it two metres over mid off's head. He's batted slowly for ages as well.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

Bell was comfortably our best player in the first series though.

yeah, but look at his punchable face.

nah, he was crap all 2012, an utter bunny to anyone remotely able to spin the ball, rubbish against new zealand, he's just the meekest player you could imagine, something england need to purge. he does come good from time to time and looks pretty when that happens but it's just not worth it. I feel england have spent the best part of 10 years trying to develop him and they've ended up with a senior player who's not really very keen on responsibility.

 

[ChinamanSpin]

The thing about Bell is that he was living off his 2011 summer success for two years before his success this summer. During the 19 test matches in between his good series against India in 2011 and Australia in 2013, he averaged 32 with just 1 hundred. Certainly not good enough for our supposedly best batsmen and not worth the occasional run of good form he has.

I also hate the way he tosses the ball away after catching it.

 

[ferg512]

Cook
Compton/Carberry
Root
Pietersen
Bell
Stokes
Prior (probably gets in by default of there being no one else)
Bresnan
Broad
Onions
Panesar (also is there anyone else?)

Onions simply has to be in there for me, has been completely shafted by England the last few years. I was very disappointed he wasn't in the ashes squad but luckily its ended up working in his favour. I'd also consider bringing Finn back in, and sack Saker like someone else suggested and just tell him to bowl fast.

----------

Also what happened to James Taylor, didn't really get much of a chance. I'd also consider bringing him in, not sure who for though.

 

[blockerdave]

@StinkyBoHoon

I've been an advocate for dropping Bell for years - frankly if you look at the number of opportunities he's been afforded over the years then someone like Joe Root must be fuming to have been dropped.

However, he was unquestionably very good in the home series, and dropping experienced players en masse is seldom the answer. if trott was available, i wouldn't look at Bell. but let's be honest he's not so i would keep Bell at 5 but with a warning that if he gets out again in the same way as some of his dismissals in Aus, he's out with no way back.

trott is the really tough one to replace. i guess Compton is the only credible alternative, anyone advocating Bell for 3 is just deluded. Nothing about his temperament or technique is suited for 3 as it's been proven time and again over the course of nearly a decade.

i am coming round to the idea of giving carberry the first half of the summer, again with a warning that neither 81 ball 12s or getting out in the 40s is acceptable. unless of course Robson is scoring a hatful of runs early summer (and agrees to play for Eng).

i genuinely think anderson is past it. as i have said as well there is no spinner better than panesar, so i think we have to have him. provided saker hasn't ruined finn completely and he is bowling ok early season he has to be in and you cannot have anderson/finn/panesar. for this reason i'm leaning towards jordan because onions for anderson doesn't really help the tail. if finn or jordan is really unimpressive early season then onions should be there.

so gives us:
cook
carberry/robson
compton
KP
Bell/Ballance
stokes
prior
broad
jordan
finn
panesar

what i think we'll see is:
cook
root
bell
ballance
?
stokes
prior
borthwick
broad
anderson
?

 

[bigred]

For me, Ian Bell is our best player, so talk of him being dropped is ludicrous. Trescothick made a good point. If Bell, Cook and Pietersen went back and played the first 5 county games of the year (and perhaps they should), they would comfortably be the leading run scorers in the championship. When Bell played in that cup final at Lord's a couple of years ago, he looked so much better than anyone else on the field. So there really isn't anyone else worth picking ahead of Bell, and the other senior batters. Until there is, England have no choice but to persist.

The other interesting thing Tres mentioned was that Compton is the only player he's seen in the championship look as comfortable as England's top boys when playing for their county. Might be time to go back to him.

With all this in mind, the team should be;

Cook
Compton
Bell
Pietersen *
Ballance
Stokes
Prior +
Jordan
Broad
Finn
Kerrigan

With Stokes allowing us to have 4 seamers in the side, we may as well play a spinner who could go for a few runs. I'm putting Kerrigan's d?but down to nerves, as he has very respectable stats in the championship.

I've got Pietersen as captain, which would mean Flower would have to go. In an ideal world, they would be able to work together, but it seems very doubtful that that is possible. It would also mean the end for Anderson and Bresnan. No way they would buy into a Pietersen managed team.

 

[ChinamanSpin]

For me, Ian Bell is our best player, so talk of him being dropped is ludicrous.

Bell has played 1 good series and 3 good matches in the last 2 and a half years. He can't change matches and makes the most basic mistakes to get out as anyone in the England team. Just because he looks a good batsmen doesn't mean he is one.

When Bell played in that cup final at Lord's a couple of years ago, he looked so much better than anyone else on the field.

Probably a controversial opinion, but I think Bell lost them that final. Although he ended up going at run a ball with the highest score, he was incredibly slow at the start of his innings. His teammates were forced into making rash mistakes to up the falling run rate, and Bell only got on with it after the main batsmen were out. Then he couldn't see it through anyway.

When on form, Bell can be the best in the country. However, he never seems to hit that form for long and he often looks in his own bubble, coasting, no matter the match situation in my opinion

 

[asprin]

Compton should definitely make the eleven every time. I was very much impressed by him during the India series - not because he handled the spinners well, but because he showed tremendous patience and will to stay at the crease.

Another player who was impressive was Root. He had a horrible Ashes down under, but I feel on England pitches he will perform. So according to me:

Cook
Compton
Bell
Pietersen
Root
Stokes
Prior (Keep him, he is always an asset)
** get a new guy in here **
Broad
Finn/Overton/Mills/Rankin/Bresnan (Or probably try out another new bowler)
Anderson

 

[bigred]

Bell has played 1 good series and 3 good matches in the last 2 and a half years. He can't change matches and makes the most basic mistakes to get out as anyone in the England team. Just because he looks a good batsmen doesn't mean he is one.

Strange statement. What's your definition of a good match? Aside from the matches against Australia during the summer, he scored a hard fought fifty in the first test in Sri Lanka, two fifties(one not out) in the same test against West Indies and 73* against the same opposition 2 matches later, fifties in the final two matches against South Africa (best bowling attack in the world), played a crucial role in winning in India- seeing us home in the third test and then a brilliant hundred in the last, a crucial 75* against New Zealand to save the third test.

There's nobody better out there, and over the past 6 months he's proved that, so there's no way he's going anywhere. I think there are greater areas of concern that need a lot more reflection than Ian Bell's performance.

 

[War]

^^

Indeed big red, some very very strange statements & assertions on Bell in the last few pages.

 

[ChinamanSpin]

@bigred Sorry. Rather erroneous statement. I rate a good match as one where the result might not have been the same without him, or was a performance better than the rest or most of his teammates in a losing cause. But I still stand by the one good series statement. Most of those games were in the last match of a poor series. I think it's a big area of concern but probably not the biggest.

 

[karolkarol]

For me there are too many radical personnel changes being suggested. A good team does not become a bad team overnight. The team lacks direction, innovation and motivation. All of these are are the fault of captain and coach and these factors allied to the fact that they allowed Anderson to be bowled into the ground and overlooked Compton and Onions in favour of inferior and unfit players means that one or both of them should fall on their swords.

 

[cricket_icon]

can we drop ian bell? I know that doesn't seem to be on anyones mind but everyone else is getting to blame people and I really don't like ian bell. I'm prepared to accept stokes in the team though on account of his performances in the ashes, even if I think another batsman should be on the radar.

Cook
Compton
Trott
KP
Ballance
Stokes
Prior
Broad
Bresnan
Anderson
Panesar

hope Trott is ok to play again, give compton the spot he deserves given his efforts, ballance at 5 who has been killing it in CC the last year. Bresnan because in england you don't need speed and to hit the deck hard, he'll be fine, better to give mills another season to have a look at him. Panesar did well against sri lanka and india so give him a go. Keep Prior because he's still amongst the best in the world. get beat by india then drop everyone and publically execute KP for holing out to mid-on. twice.

You'd pick Ballance in the team instead of Bell who has done pretty well for England?

 

[asprin]

For me there are too many radical personnel changes being suggested

Exactly what I thought. That's my I kept 8 players from the Ashes squad + a couple of new faces.