Pitch sliders - Asked the question for C22, now onto initial tinkering and discussion

cricket_online

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I caught a Nets video posted in the main Cricket 22 thread earlier, this little nugget caught my eye.

View attachment 257075

Mixed pitch types?!?

Pitch condition settings from day 1 to day 5?!?

Are these new additions for Cricket 22 or were they around for Cricket 19 as well??


Same as Cricket 19. You get pitch types "Grassy/Dusty" or "Grassy/Dry" along with "Green", "Standard", "Dry", "Dusty". You also have Pitch Hardness ranging from "Soft" to "Medium" to "Hard", and Pitch Condition from "Day 1" to "Day 5". On top of that you have an option for pitch deterioration which can be set to "Slow", "Normal" or "Fast".

But unfortunately, none of these options translate to a difference in gameplay - except for Pitch Hardness where 'Medium' is the max you can go as 'Hard' option leads to more extras. You can go with any permutation & combination without any discernible change to the gameplay. Or if there is any change, it's negligible - at least that was my experience while batting.
 

Rumple43

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Well, this is good news, but also disappointing!

Great update tho, thanks for the detailed response.
 

wasteyouryouth

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I think it's worth saying that there are differences in gameplay based on pitch types.

For starters the AI will play differently depending on conditions, perhaps not to a noticeable degree and not always in a satisfying manner. For example, I've had them, on pitches designed for sub continent conditions, bowl 20+ overs of pace before bringing on a spinner, then on more English tailored pitches bring on spinners very quickly.

Then for pitches, there are differences. A grassy pitch has lower bounce, so when trying to create certain pitches it's worth going up a hardness level. I used Hard/Grassy when trying to recreate the flat green New Zealand pitches.

You can create pitches that barely have any bounce at all using Very Soft, Day 5 pitches. Not that having a pitch like sand is enjoyable other than for fun.
 

Rumple43

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I've grabbed the spinner data for England, that was fairly interesting. As a comparison:

1636046174385.png

This looks like a quicker ball that has bounced a bit from Lyon, but stump high from 4.5m-5m for a spinner is comparable to 6.5m-7m from a pace bowler in the high 80s.

I'll try and have a mess around in Ashes and see if there's combination of settings that can roughly achieve this as a head start.

I'll do the raw data for Australia, India and the West Indies next week. That gets done Monday-Friday between the hours of 9:00am and 5:00pm, for reasons that will remain nameless.....
 

wasteyouryouth

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I've grabbed the spinner data for England, that was fairly interesting. As a comparison:

View attachment 257104

This looks like a quicker ball that has bounced a bit from Lyon, but stump high from 4.5m-5m for a spinner is comparable to 6.5m-7m from a pace bowler in the high 80s.

I'll try and have a mess around in Ashes and see if there's combination of settings that can roughly achieve this as a head start.

I'll do the raw data for Australia, India and the West Indies next week. That gets done Monday-Friday between the hours of 9:00am and 5:00pm, for reasons that will remain nameless.....
In game you'd probably see Lyon about 3/4 the way up the stumps.
 

Rumple43

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I find these comparisons somewhat interesting, but most probably find them incredibly dull. Still, you come into this thread, you get what you get ha

1636117059397.png

10kph faster at Eden Gardens, yet not clearing the stumps. Slower, same length at Lords, clearing the stumps easily.

Good benchmark data for some potential difference in bounce between India and England.

Didn't really enjoy looking at the score cards for England games in India tho.... :(
 

wasteyouryouth

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I've grabbed the spinner data for England, that was fairly interesting. As a comparison:

View attachment 257104

This looks like a quicker ball that has bounced a bit from Lyon, but stump high from 4.5m-5m for a spinner is comparable to 6.5m-7m from a pace bowler in the high 80s.

I'll try and have a mess around in Ashes and see if there's combination of settings that can roughly achieve this as a head start.

I'll do the raw data for Australia, India and the West Indies next week. That gets done Monday-Friday between the hours of 9:00am and 5:00pm, for reasons that will remain nameless.....
Just looking at this again.

I feel as though it's difficult to compare to pitches 12 months apart at different grounds. To get a consistent result they should really be as close to possible, e.g. same ground, day.

Lyon's pace is probably his average, so it isn't a quicker one.

I find these comparisons somewhat interesting, but most probably find them incredibly dull. Still, you come into this thread, you get what you get ha

View attachment 257136

10kph faster at Eden Gardens, yet not clearing the stumps. Slower, same length at Lords, clearing the stumps easily.

Good benchmark data for some potential difference in bounce between India and England.

Didn't really enjoy looking at the score cards for England games in India tho.... :(
The thing is. It's not easy to take one delivery in isolation and compare it.

Higher pace might reduce bounce on certain pitches.

You have a Dukes vs SG balls.

How the ball lands might impact the bounce.

This Manchester 2019, same pitch, same batsman. You can see how much variation there is, in terms of balls hitting the stumps, on good length for both Broad and Leach.

Screenshot 2021-11-05 at 12.50.50.pngScreenshot 2021-11-05 at 12.50.39.png
 

Rumple43

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Just looking at this again.

I feel as though it's difficult to compare to pitches 12 months apart at different grounds. To get a consistent result they should really be as close to possible, e.g. same ground, day.

Lyon's pace is probably his average, so it isn't a quicker one.
Agreed, to be honest. Though I've only looked at balls in a team's first innings to try and rule out pitch wear as a game progresses.

I mentioned previously, I think that there are potentially too many variables in play regarding pitch bounce anyway. Yes, in terms of data collection you'd probably want to keep as many constants as possible across everything recorded, but I'm happy that if I can get some rough benchmarks that suggest pitch X should be a bit like this and pitch Y should be a bit more like that, I think I'm fine with that. There's always going to be a trade off between time/effort and results gained.

I mean, you can fall down the rabbit hole of looking at data across pitches in the same country that vary a lot. Compare Taunton to most pitches in England for example, let alone comparing pitches across different countries.

And just like that, I feel the stuff I'm collecting may be fairly futile haha
 

wasteyouryouth

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Agreed, to be honest. Though I've only looked at balls in a team's first innings to try and rule out pitch wear as a game progresses.

I mentioned previously, I think that there are potentially too many variables in play regarding pitch bounce anyway. Yes, in terms of data collection you'd probably want to keep as many constants as possible across everything recorded, but I'm happy that if I can get some rough benchmarks that suggest pitch X should be a bit like this and pitch Y should be a bit more like that, I think I'm fine with that. There's always going to be a trade off between time/effort and results gained.

I mean, you can fall down the rabbit hole of looking at data across pitches in the same country that vary a lot. Compare Taunton to most pitches in England for example, let alone comparing pitches across different countries.

And just like that, I feel the stuff I'm collecting may be fairly futile haha
I hope I don't sound negative. It's an area that I put a lot of time into (the spin/pace bounce disparity really drove me nuts) so I know there's a rabbit hole you can go down. I spent many hours looking at Hawkeye data on Cricinfo (that was far easier to use but that all disappeared when they updated their site) and still use the ICC site.

I do think the game would make more sense if there were just stock pitches for each country, even though that's not accurate, which is why I think something trying to find benchmarks makes sense.
 

Rumple43

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I do think the game would make more sense if there were just stock pitches for each country, even though that's not accurate, which is why I think something trying to find benchmarks makes sense.
I think that's what made most sense in my head.

I want a pitch to play on across the world that is fairly representative of what it is meant to be like in real life. To do that, I think there needs to be some kind of benchmarks as you say.

Indian pitches have less bounce than English pitches - Yes
By how much? Well, maybe this much, but it's hard to say for sure.

Granted that's not a very scientifically accurate answer, but it's something at least :)
 

wasteyouryouth

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I think that's what made most sense in my head.

I want a pitch to play on across the world that is fairly representative of what it is meant to be like in real life. To do that, I think there needs to be some kind of benchmarks as you say.

Indian pitches have less bounce than English pitches - Yes
By how much? Well, maybe this much, but it's hard to say for sure.

Granted that's not a very scientifically accurate answer, but it's something at least :)

I do think test matches pitches could be more 'difficult' as part of the increasing the immersion and challenge of batting in test matches. Variable bounce could play a bigger part, particularly as a match progresses. I understand the need to balance simulation vs more casual gameplay. But I take the view that if you're playing a test you want something more immersive than a quick hit, because it can be 10+ hours of time you're putting into one match.

This is day 5 in Chennai test earlier this year..

Screenshot 2021-11-05 at 14.06.00.pngScreenshot 2021-11-05 at 14.05.44.pngScreenshot 2021-11-05 at 14.05.24.png
This one is great. All balls pitching around the same spot but the bounce radically different.
Screenshot 2021-11-05 at 14.12.44.png
 

Crassus

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To be honest I'd be more than happy with pitches bouncing/swinging less and spinning more in the subcontinent and bouncing more at higher pace in Australia/West Indies/South Africa and then finally having a bit of everything in England and New Zealand.

That is how it is at its most basic level. It surely isn't that difficult to implement?

What I don't want is a repeat of C19 where the affects that the pitch, the ball, the outfield, the crowd noise etc have on the game is all identical regardless of where you play.

In career mode if I'm playing for England on a tour of India I want to really feel like I'm batting in India. It should be trial by spin on dusty spin friendly decks, it should have the crowd going nuts at everything. If I'm a seamer the tour should be difficult to pick up wickets.

I am worried about whether this will be in the new game though as we've heard nothing about it. All we've been given is better graphics and a few new licences and animations. Which are very welcome but secondary for me behind the way the game actually plays.
 

Rumple43

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To be honest I'd be more than happy with pitches bouncing/swinging less and spinning more in the subcontinent and bouncing more at higher pace in Australia/West Indies/South Africa and then finally having a bit of everything in England and New Zealand.

That is how it is at its most basic level. It surely isn't that difficult to implement?

What I don't want is a repeat of C19 where the affects that the pitch, the ball, the outfield, the crowd noise etc have on the game is all identical regardless of where you play.

In career mode if I'm playing for England on a tour of India I want to really feel like I'm batting in India. It should be trial by spin on dusty spin friendly decks, it should have the crowd going nuts at everything. If I'm a seamer the tour should be difficult to pick up wickets.

I am worried about whether this will be in the new game though as we've heard nothing about it. All we've been given is better graphics and a few new licences and animations. Which are very welcome but secondary for me behind the way the game actually plays.
Completely agree. Good to see like-minded people out there.

Here's to hoping that Cricket 22 drops and all this is irrelevant because they've nailed it with a variation of pitches across the globe with just the change of a setting or two :-)
 

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