Ravinder Jadeja & Yusuf Pathan

[shravi]

Ravindra Jadeja never really deserved his place in the ODI side especially as an allrounder. He hardly batted good.

Yusuf Pathan hasn't been enough opportunities. I think he should be given chance to bat higher in the batting order as he has time and ample deliveries to construct his innings and showcase his talent.

Yusuf generally bats at 7 and comes in such a situation when he has no choice but to hit out or get out. This doesn't let him perform to his potential.

He does not deserve to bat any higher. He is a brainless slogger and he doesn't do that very well either. He is not better than Sehwag, Gambhir, Parthiv Patel, Dhawan, Tiwary, Rohit Sharma, Badrinath, Sachin, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Raina or Kohli, so he doesn't deserve to construct an innings more than any of those players. #7 is the only place he can bat, unless it's the last 10-15 overs when he can be promoted to have a dash.

 

[mohit_dude10]

Yusuf Pathan is one of those batsman who click once in 10-15 matches, doesn't matter he bats as opener or at 7. He doesn't have the technique to even play a proper innings on a flat deck. His bowling on most occasions is crap, bowls too short and on leg, often calling to be hit. Ravindra Jadeja does have a decent technique with the bat, but he has to improve his bowling, he is a decent fielder too. But its going to be hard for him to get into Indian team again after so many chances he got.

 

[Fenil]

He does not deserve to bat any higher. He is a brainless slogger and he doesn't do that very well either. He is not better than Sehwag, Gambhir, Parthiv Patel, Dhawan, Tiwary, Rohit Sharma, Badrinath, Sachin, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Raina or Kohli, so he doesn't deserve to construct an innings more than any of those players. #7 is the only place he can bat, unless it's the last 10-15 overs when he can be promoted to have a dash.

You are correct. But most times Yusuf doesn't get even 15 overs to play. One thing I agree on is, Yusuf needs to improve his bowling to be in the side. He's in the team as an allrounder and not as a pure batsman, there are plenty of batsmen out there who are more than capable to finish the innings but the fact that Yusuf can bowl gives him a little edge over others but if he doesn't performs with bowl, he might be dropped from the team sooner or later.

 

[karan316]

Make Yusuf Pathan play Test cricket, and don't give him the permission to go for the big shots all the time, rather play Test cricket the traditional way, and I GUARANDAMNTEE you he won't even average 20 odd. His technique is comparable with that of a tail ender, except that he has the ability to play big shots. This guy is only suited for big hitting in the slog over of ODI cricket, and in T20 cricket.

This shows you havent played much cricket nor do you have much knowledge about it.By the way,yusuf is a big hit in our ranji trophy with both ball and bat,check the records first,he has the world record for chasing the highest score in a domestic tournament in the world,he scored a century and double century in the second innings to win the match,and secondly,Yusuf is succesful under Warne and Gambhir with both bat and ball,because they want him,Dhoni doesnt want Yusuf in the team,as he is a threat to Suresh Raina,so he is just try to pull him back.Under Gambhir he is equally effective with both bat and ball even in 50 over cricket.

 

[6ry4nj]

This shows you havent played much cricket nor do you have much knowledge about it.By the way,yusuf is a big hit in our ranji trophy with both ball and bat,check the records first,he has the world record for chasing the highest score in a domestic tournament in the world,he scored a century and double century in the second innings to win the match,and secondly,Yusuf is succesful under Warne and Gambhir with both bat and ball,because they want him,Dhoni doesnt want Yusuf in the team,as he is a threat to Suresh Raina,so he is just try to pull him back.Under Gambhir he is equally effective with both bat and ball even in 50 over cricket.

You're new here, but you better learn quick that you don't have to insult someone to disagree with them. I dare say you're not a star cricketer yourself, and you don't know whether Bublu is either, so just leave it out.

Apart from that, you have a right to your opinion, as does the other poster. You make a good case, but I'm inclined to agree with Bublu that Yusuf is an over-hyped hit-and-(mostly)miss slogger, at least at levels above domestic. Has he played Tests? If so, what is his record like?

PS: Please place a space after your commas and full stops.

 

[FAZ007]

Here we go again. Good thing Indian fan's are not selectors. Otherwise we will have brand new 11 every time India loses or someone under-performs

I am no fan of Yousuf but he has that excitement or entertainment factor when he comes in. You can see the opposition going into back foot trying to get him early and stop his big shots. That doesn't happen with player like Jadeja or other's. If given enough opportunity he will improve

He is in the category of destructible player's who can turn the match single handedly in few over's. He is in same class of minimal technique as Afridi who worked on his bowling and became a decent bowler who can bat distructively or Lance Kluesner who worked more on his batting. These player's don't need a lot of technique but opportunities. I hope he gets better and performs well for India

 

[karan316]

You're new here, but you better learn quick that you don't have to insult someone to disagree with them. I dare say you're not a star cricketer yourself, and you don't know whether Bublu is either, so just leave it out.

Apart from that, you have a right to your opinion, as does the other poster. You make a good case, but I'm inclined to agree with Bublu that Yusuf is an over-hyped hit-and-(mostly)miss slogger, at least at levels above domestic. Has he played Tests? If so, what is his record like?

PS: Please place a space after your commas and full stops.

I have not insulted anyone here, all I was saying was that you should know what you are talking about, i have observed Yusuf Pathan's game since the time he was 22 - 23 years old, he is a selfless player who has performed for all his teams,tests ODIs or T20s, its just that he is not given proper support. Such players are rare to find. He is a hit or miss kind of player, but he is good enough for the international level, even Virender Sehwag was considered a slogger before, but Sourav Ganguly stuck with him and developed his talent, even Australia developed Andrew symonds, its not easy to go out and start hitting all the bowlers out of the park from ball one, most of the time he has came in to bat only to increase the run rate, that's not fair on a player. He and Kierron Pollard are in a different league of theirs, you should be smart enough to use them. Shane Warne and Gambhir get the best out of Yusuf,but Dhoni doesn't,because he doesn't want him in the team.

 

[Bevab]

Good point there, but still saying that Dhoni doesn't want him is not good. He needs to improve his bowling, as India are short of all-rounders and if he does bowl well, he'll surely get a lot of more chances.

 

[6ry4nj]

I have not insulted anyone here, all I was saying was that you should know what you are talking about, i have observed Yusuf Pathan's game since the time he was 22 - 23 years old, he is a selfless player who has performed for all his teams,tests ODIs or T20s, its just that he is not given proper support.

Yes but unlike me and Bublu, you actually don't know what you are talking about do you? You say he has performed in Tests - but he hasn't played any.

Furthermore, his batting average in FC is 41 - lower than Raina and wayyyy lower than Mukund who are the fringe members of the current Test team. His FC bowling average of 31+ is barely good enough for FC let alone Tests. And his ListA averages are worse. And his ODI averages are 27 & over 40. Even his T20I averages are not really good enough (18.8 & 33)

Such players are rare to find. He is a hit or miss kind of player, but he is good enough for the international level, even Virender Sehwag was considered a slogger before, but Sourav Ganguly stuck with him and developed his talent, even Australia developed Andrew symonds, its not easy to go out and start hitting all the bowlers out of the park from ball one, most of the time he has came in to bat only to increase the run rate, that's not fair on a player. He and Kierron Pollard are in a different league of theirs, you should be smart enough to use them. Shane Warne and Gambhir get the best out of Yusuf,but Dhoni doesn't,because he doesn't want him in the team.

I'm not going to speculate on whether Sehwag was any good at some unspecified point in the distant past. He's good enough now. Yusuf isn't!

Whether you're smart enough to realize it, or not!

 

[karan316]

Yes but unlike me and Bublu, you actually don't know what you are talking about do you? You say he has performed in Tests - but he hasn't played any.
Furthermore, his batting average in FC is 41 - lower than Raina and wayyyy lower than Mukund who are the fringe members of the current Test team. His FC bowling average of 31+ is barely good enough for FC let alone Tests. And his ListA averages are worse. And his ODI averages are 27 & over 40. Even his T20I averages are not really good enough (18.8 & 33)
I'm not going to speculate on whether Sehwag was any good at some unspecified point in the distant past. He's good enough now. Yusuf isn't!
Whether you're smart enough to realize it, or not!

Yusuf Pathan has played 41 first class matches,and has scored at an average of 41.38 and a strike rate of 94.38.and has taken 120 wickets . Better than most of the other all rounders in the Indian domestic tournaments.

Suresh Raina has played 64 first class matches with a batting average of 44.25 in first class cricket with a strike rate of 59.88,and has taken 23 wickets.

You cannot point out his international career as he has got a raw deal,he was never given a proper opportunity, He has never got a chance to play 20 to 25 matches in a row and showcase his talent.Why does he play so well under Shane Warne and Gautam Gambhir and not under Dhoni.

He proved his worth on the true bouncy South African wickets against the in form south african fast bowlers, where all the other Indian batsmen failed to even play them a bit comfortably, lets take a look at these Stats

INDIA IN SOUTH AFRICA 2011.TRUE TEST ON BOUNCY AND FAST WICKETS.

YK Pathan mat - 3 inn - 3 runs - 166 HS - 105 average - 55.33 strike rate - 134.95
(100s - 1 50s - 1)

SK Raina mat - 5 inn - 5 runs - 111 HS - 37 average - 22.27 strike rate - 78.72

MS Dhoni mat - 5 inn - 5 runs - 75 HS - 38 average - 15 strike rate - 59.52

M Vijay mat - 3 inn - 3 runs - 18 HS - 16 average - 6 strike rate - 41

Y Singh mat - 5 inn - 5 runs - 91 HS - 53 average - 18.20 strike rate - 68.42


Yusuf was not considered good enough for the bouncy South african wickets and four in-form bowlers in Steyn, Morkel, Tsotsotbe and Johan Botha.

But he proved his worth when he got his chance,these are stats of the matches on difficult pitches against a hostile bowling attack,these were not played on flat Indian wickets where batting is a piece of cake.

In IPL - 11 Man of the matches,the highest in the IPL.(Abhinav Mukund is not even selected in the playing 11 in the IPL).

Helped West Zone to chase 536 runs,the highest in any world domestic tournament,by scoring 210 runs of 190 balls not out in the second innings and a century in the first innings in the Final match. Its a world record,don't forget my friend.

And talking about Abhinav Mukund,this year's highest domestic run scorer was Manish Pandey,who also has an ipl century to his name and a good exposure to international bowlers ,Mukund was considered ahead of Manish
Pandey because he was in the Chennai Super Kings team.

The whole point is that MS Dhoni plays politics and gives his favourite players the best of the chances,and people who don't play much cricket do not understand whats going on behind the scenes.

Yusuf is a special player ,maybe thats why a man like Shane Warne has so much respect for him.

 

[shravi]

You cannot compare Mukund with Yusuf,as Abhinav Mukund is a defensive opening batsman(who is in the team just because he was in Chennai Super King under Dhoni) and Yusuf is a hard hitting all rounder.

And talking about Abhinav Mukund,this year's highest domestic run scorer was Manish Pandey,who also has an ipl century to his name and a good exposure to international bowlers ,Mukund was considered ahead of Manish
Pandey because he was in the Chennai Super Kings team.

Wow, it's obvious you know absolutely nothing about domestic cricket. Manish Pandey has a very suspect technique and more importantly is a middle order batsman. I bet you didn't even know that. Abhinav Mukund is there on merit for being a run scoring machine and if you can't see that there's no point even discussing this.

The fact that players who play for CSK are selected for India is merely a coincidence. Parthiv Patel has scored tons of runs in Ranji cricket and Saha is one of the best fielders in the country. The selectors obviously lost faith in Dinesh Karthik so they had to look elsewhere. They persisted with Murali Vijay because that's how you find out whether a player can cut it at the international level- by giving him sufficient chances to prove himself. Now that he has obviously failed on a number of occasions, he has been dropped. However, he was picked on the basis of very strong domestic performances. He had fantastic stats when he was picked, averaging 50+ in both FC and List A cricket. Abhinav Mukund has not only scored in Indian domestic cricket but also when he has toured outside India. As for Dhoni and Raina, to question their selection is plain idiocy.

Some people just like making conspiracy theories because they are bored and have nothing else to do in life, so they try to find some wrong in the world, even if it's non-existent.

Also, who gives a fried chicken if Abhinav Mukund isn't selected in the IPL XI? He's playing in the test team! He is not competing with Pathan for a place in the team so it's obvious you are just making wild conspiracy theories.

 

[karan316]

Wow, it's obvious you know absolutely nothing about domestic cricket. Manish Pandey has a very suspect technique and more importantly is a middle order batsman. I bet you didn't even know that. Abhinav Mukund is there on merit for being a run scoring machine and if you can't see that there's no point even discussing this.

The fact that players who play for CSK are selected for India is merely a coincidence. Parthiv Patel has scored tons of runs in Ranji cricket and Saha is one of the best fielders in the country. The selectors obviously lost faith in Dinesh Karthik so they had to look elsewhere. They persisted with Murali Vijay because that's how you find out whether a player can cut it at the international level- by giving him sufficient chances to prove himself. Now that he has obviously failed on a number of occasions, he has been dropped. However, he was picked on the basis of very strong domestic performances. He had fantastic stats when he was picked, averaging 50+ in both FC and List A cricket. Abhinav Mukund has not only scored in Indian domestic cricket but also when he has toured outside India. As for Dhoni and Raina, to question their selection is plain idiocy.

Some people just like making conspiracy theories because they are bored and have nothing else to do in life, so they try to find some wrong in the world, even if it's non-existent.

Also, who gives a fried chicken if Abhinav Mukund isn't selected in the IPL XI? He's playing in the test team! He is not competing with Pathan for a place in the team so it's obvious you are just making wild conspiracy theories.

M not comparing Dhoni with Yusuf, Dhoni has already proven himself as a cricketer. My point is about the politics he plays and gives a chance to his favourite players.

When Dinesh Karthik was dropped,there were no strong reasons, Murali Vijay got ample of chances, why didn't Dinesh Karthik get such chances? what wrong did he do?

Manish Pandey has a fair amount of experience of opening the innings as he plays the role of an opener in the ipl and has even faced great international level bowlers in the process. Atleast he should have been selected for the West Indies tour to see what he has.

I agree that Mukund does deserve a chance,but he could have never made it if he was not in the CSK team with dhoni.

Why has Yusuf never got to play a few matches in a row like a Murali Vijay or like an Abhinav Mukund?

Ravichandran Ashwin can make it into the team if he performs well in the IPL, but if Rahul Sharma does, then they say that we don't pick players just on the basis of the IPL. Even though Rahul Sharma was so good that he didnt let any batsmen dominate him ,Gayle or Sachin, he made them all look silly against his variations.

Rahul Dravid is dropped out of the one day side just after 1 bad series against Australia. Any reason for that ?

Harbhajan Singh, who has taken 3 wickets or more only 8 times in the last 75 ODIs he has played gets an easy place in the team, why? because Dhoni wants his best buddy in the team at any cost. Harbhajan is a good test bowler, but he has not done enough in the one dayers to be in the side.
Anil Kumble was such a great player but there were questions raised even if he had just one bad series, same does bot happen with Harbhajan, why?

Irfan Pathan was dropped,even though he never performed that badly, he always contributed either with the bat or ball. He was dropped for the reason that his main job was to bowl even though India has always been in desperate need of a fast bowling all rounder.

Dhoni gives chances to a lot of players, but creates an easy and favourable environment for his favourites and a difficult one for others...

Chennai Super Kings rocks...by the way, Lalit Modi has spilled the beans,fixing of the auctions,umpires,pitches,players with the help of mr, Shrinivasan. All the secrets of Chennai Super Kings are out. Just check what Lalit Modi has said on twitter. Few months back even Mukesh Ambani had accused Shrinivasan of malpractices...

 

[shravi]

Opening in limited overs cricket, more importantly in T20 does not mean that you can open in test cricket. They are completely different games. Just look at Sachin Tendulkar, one of the greatest of all time. An opener in ODI cricket but a middle order batsman in test cricket.

And yes, Mukund would have made on the basis of performance. He has not dominated the domestic scene for just one season, but for a few seasons now, on a consistent basis.

Irfan Pathan was dropped for good reason. There are only calls for him to come back because he is the best option from a list on which he is the only candidate. He is a poor bowler now who has lost pace and his natural banana swing.

I advise you not to take IPL so seriously. Rahul Sharma may have done well in IPL but has done absolutely nothing of note in domestic cricket. Also, his eye problem is a severe hindrance to being selected in a format longer than T20.

Yusuf Pathan is an average cricketer who can dominate domestic attacks because the standard is so low. However, he is so inconsistent at the top level. He can show glimpses of brilliance but this is once in 10 innings. Your argument would be that he doesn't get enough overs. However, he just isn't a good enough batsman to come ahead of Gambhir, Sachin, Sehwag, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Raina or Kohli.

Dinesh Karthik was dropped after being given countless opportunities to prove himself both as a wicket-keeper batsman and as a batsman alone. However, he never availed these opportunities. I'm his biggest fan but there's no place in the side for him ahead of Dhoni and if he was to play it would be as an opener and there's no way he would come ahead of Sachin, Sehwag or Gambhir in the pecking order.

T20, and especially the IPL, cannot be used to select players for TEST matches and 50 over matches. They require completely different skills. Having a great average isn't enough to make it to the top level. There have been plenty of batsman who have dominated at domestic level (e.g. Wasim Jaffer) but just aren't good enough to play at international level. Abhinav Mukund seems to have that ability to take his game to another level. Manish Pandey may have that ability but he is not tried and tested at the international level which is why they went for Kohli and Raina in the West Indies tests. They know that these two players have played and succeeded against International standard bowlers. Also, he can't take Sachin, Dravid or Laxman's place in the middle order so there is no place for him. I have already said why he can't be an opener. He's not a natural opener and why would the selectors want to select a makeshift opener when they have a pretty damn good natural opener in Mukund.

BTW, I don't care about IPL. I couldn't care less if it came crashing to the ground. In fact, I would be happy as there would be more international cricket. I just support them on the rare occasions when I do watch IPL since I am from Chennai.

 

[macintosh]

I agree with Karan316 here. He has proved his points with true facts and stats rather than plain talks like Shravi. And I don't think Irfan Pathan deserved to go out of the team. If he was out,Harbhajan has done worse, he should be out aswell. And Rahul Sharma's eye problem is not so severe that he cannot play one day cricket, he deserved a ticket to the West Indies tour.

Virender Sehwag was a middle order batsman who was given a chance to open and he is the world's most destructive opener now.Sachin does not open the innings in tests because he is not comfortable with it.

Virender Sehwag should be replaced with an attacking player like Manish Pandey instead of someone like a Murali Vijay or an Abhinav Mukund in tests. India already has very good defensive players in Dravid, Gambhir, Kohli,Dhoni,Laxman,etc. India needs someone who can have an impact like Virender Sehwag.

 

[karan316]

Opening in limited overs cricket, more importantly in T20 does not mean that you can open in test cricket. They are completely different games. Just look at Sachin Tendulkar, one of the greatest of all time. An opener in ODI cricket but a middle order batsman in test cricket.

Virender Sehwag was a middle order player before he became a test opener.He is the most destructive test batsman currently.Your points have no basis,you just say things that you feel are right without looking at the whole scenario.

India already has a lot of defensive batsmen in the top order- Kohli, Gambhir, Dravid, Laxman,etc. What India needs in absence of Virender Sehwag is an attacking opener, Murali Vijay and Abhinav Mukund are very defensive and Manish Pandey is an attacking player.

And Manish Pandey has been tested more than Abhinav Mukund, Mukund had never faced International quality bowlers before he went to West indies, atleast Manish Pandey had the experience of facing them regularly in the ipl.

Irfan Pathan was dropped for good reason. There are only calls for him to come back because he is the best option from a list on which he is the only candidate. He is a poor bowler now who has lost pace and his natural banana swing.

Irfan Pathan has never ever performed that badly, he has always contributed either by his batting or bowling. India has only one fast bowling all rounder,and who was dropped once and never given an opportunity again. Aren't his achievements good enough to give him atleast one opportunity?

He has played 29 test matches and taken 100 wickets, and has managed to score 5 half centuries and 1 century out of the 40 innings he has played at an average of 31.57.

Don't you think he deserved a second shot?

Laxmipathy Balaji got a second shot despite of his not so good performances in the domestic arena. What do you have to say for that?

I advise you not to take IPL so seriously. Rahul Sharma may have done well in IPL but has done absolutely nothing of note in domestic cricket. Also, his eye problem is a severe hindrance to being selected in a format longer than T20.

His eye condition is not so bad that he can't play 50 over cricket, he has managed to recover long back. He definitely deserved a ticket to West Indies.
He proved himself against all the well recognized players in the IPL. And you have to take IPL seriously as it has given a lot of exposure to domestic Indian cricketers.

Yusuf Pathan is an average cricketer who can dominate domestic attacks because the standard is so low.

Oh really? forgot his performances against South Africa against the in form south african bowlers on bouncy pitches? or didn't you see the century against the New Zealanders where he won us a game which was almost lost. Hard hitters can never be consistent in their initial period,e.g. Andrew Symonds, Virender Sehwag,etc. They take time to mature. Its easy to get settled and play your shots, but it is very difficult to attack from ball one. They need a supporting captain to succeed. Sourav Ganguly supported Virender Sehwag, and look at what he has become now, a team always needs such unorthodox players. Having only traditional players is not a good idea.

Dinesh Karthik was dropped after being given countless opportunities to prove himself both as a wicket-keeper batsman and as a batsman alone. However, he never availed these opportunities.

He has never ever got to play regularly, like Murali Vijay. Quite a few times he was called in the middle of the series when Sehwag got injured. He should have got a chance to play the ODI matches which Murali Vijay played instead.

Abhinav Mukund seems to have that ability to take his game to another level. Manish Pandey may have that ability but he is not tried and tested at the international level which is why they went for Kohli and Raina in the West Indies tests

If Manish Pandey is not tried and tested, then Abhinav Mukund is in the same category. Atleast Manish Pandey has faced international bowlers and has even scored a century in South Africa in the ipl. And what has Mukund done to get selected for England tour?

BTW, I don't care about IPL. I couldn't care less if it came crashing to the ground. In fact, I would be happy as there would be more international cricket.

The same IPL has given India a pool of talented players. Even Suresh Raina was dropped,but was selected after his good performances in the IPL. Pragyan Ojha came into the limelight with the IPL, Mishra got a chance because of the IPL. And more importantly, the way Yusuf Pathan (11 Man of the matches) performed under Warne and Gambhir proves Dhoni is biased and not treating him well. The IPL is way bigger than our boring domestic setup. And players who perform in it definitely have it in them to make it to the next level.