South Africa tour of England 2022 (incl. 2 T20Is vs Ireland)

[Aislabie]

I couldn't really stop myself from getting to that right side tab and I notice Shahid Afridi played 145 innings as an ODI opener!

He was also a surprisingly effective Test opener

 

[Aislabie]

Yeah. I've noticed recently he's almost as dull as Andrew Strauss.

It's not great when you get a bunch of commentators in a row (or worse together) who all think the same way about the game.

Their well-expressed, strongly-argued and yet often different views are what make Michael Atherton and Nasser Hussain such a good duo. But I'd rather have a relative non-cricketer like Jarrod Kimber, Vish Entharajah or Geoff Lemon who has a well-thought out view over someone like a Strauss or a Sangakkara who will generally parrot the most establishment views, even if they say them in a very polished way.

I don't blame Strauss or Sanga for being so square either - as big figures in the ECB and MCC respectively, it would be stranger if they weren't.

Shane Warne was often a really good example of this actually. I don't think anyone could say they agreed with everything he used to say, but by having and expressing those views he almost always created conversations that were more interesting than anything that would've happened without him there. Mark Taylor does this too, but in a most soft-spoken way

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Just me or does anyone else feel Broad has lost the oomph lately? Not one for stats ever but really feel his accuracy has gone down considerably.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Just me or does anyone else feel Broad has lost the oomph lately? Not one for stats ever but really feel his accuracy has gone down considerably.

It's been ages since he has done anything considerable. Has looked a bit off post 2019 Ashes.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Just me or does anyone else feel Broad has lost the oomph lately? Not one for stats ever but really feel his accuracy has gone down considerably.

I'm not sure he'd be getting in the side as much if we had more than four or five fit seam bowlers.

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2022

As I post that he bags one.

 

[Aislabie]

So I wasn't paying much attention to the cricket today, but I've just seen that Marco Jansen was sent in at number six. And it looks like they've decided that that's on merit as well, which bodes really well for a team that's been struggling to find a Test all-rounder for a while

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I'm not sure he'd be getting in the side as much if we had more than four or five fit seam bowlers.

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2022

As I post that he bags one.

Broad will always have the ability to bowl magic balls but the thing is that with the advent of such fast paced batting in the test matches, accuracy has become paramount. It isn't much good producing magic balls if you're leaking runs outside that. The damage is done by the time you bowl the opposition out.

 

[Bevab]

Broad’s only in the side because unlike most of the other pacers who are better than him he can remain fit. I don’t think he will be in the playing XI once everyone returns and can demonstrate an adequate record of fitness. If he wasn’t sulking everytime he was ‘rotated’ Broad would also be a fantastic pacer to keep around the squad for morale and experience purposes.

So I wasn't paying much attention to the cricket today, but I've just seen that Marco Jansen was sent in at number six. And it looks like they've decided that that's on merit as well, which bodes really well for a team that's been struggling to find a Test all-rounder for a while

Ehhh Jansen is really not a test number six. I’d argue that he isn’t a number seven either. South Africa’s current tactic of having three number eights to cover up for the lack of batting quality from their all-rounder may backfire easily one day. This is also the same side that has a bunch of middle order batters averaging in the mid to low 30s, not ideal when you want to go with five bowlers. If they want an all-rounder there’s Wiaan Mulder who must be perplexed that he keeps getting dropped without consistent backing despite being close to the ideal player for this XI.

Having said that I can see the appeal of playing these five as you get every variety of pace and a world class spinner to boot. Maharaj’s batting has also improved tremendously in the last 2 years. If Jansen is put on some intensive batting training (which I don’t think is the best for him personally as he is a very special bowler) he will get there too.

Coetzee is another one who can bowl 140 plus and can bat adequately. Was rumoured to have even more potential than Jansen. Imagine him playing instead of Nortje; now that would result in a true batdeep XI like England 2019 in ODIs.

 

[Aislabie]

Ehhh Jansen is really not a test number six. I’d argue that he isn’t a number seven either.

Nor was Jason Holder, but he was given the opportunity and put in the work to be a competent 6/7 - and that really helped with the balance of the side (or at least would have done if they had actual batters)

I do think that Mulder is the more legitimate all-rounder, but if they can get Jansen to average anywhere near 30 from number seven-ish then his bowling more than makes up the difference

 

[wasteyouryouth]

The old fella still got it

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Crawley 100 incoming.

 

[Aislabie]

Crawley 100 incoming.

100 what is the question

 

[Bevab]

Elgar has improved with regards to spinner management compared to the past. Not the first time I remember him bringing Maharaj on as a surprise move. Also reinforces my point that had the latter been brought on in the first innings Pope would have never scored anything significant.

 

[Bevab]

Nor was Jason Holder, but he was given the opportunity and put in the work to be a competent 6/7 - and that really helped with the balance of the side (or at least would have done if they had actual batters)

I do think that Mulder is the more legitimate all-rounder, but if they can get Jansen to average anywhere near 30 from number seven-ish then his bowling more than makes up the difference

The trick here is that Holder was one of West Indies’ best options with the ball and also an influential captain to boot. That does give him the freedom to decide what he wants to do with regards to his role in the side. He wouldn’t have to be worried about potentially being axed if his form with the ball dipped in the meantime. That is a luxury that I doubt Jansen will have with multiple talented pacers in domestic cricket, a very credible all-rounder unfairly axed and another in Harmer who will come in at the slightest hint of conditions changing. Jansen could put in the work to get his batting up to the standard of a number seven but could potentially stagnate or regress in his bowling abilities, the thing that got him his chance in the first place and his strongest suit. Holder also had the luxury of not having to focus on T20s at that point and had good security over his ODI spot whilst Jansen is aiming to be a multi-format player.

As an Indian fan I’d urge even more caution given what happened around fifteen years ago with our very own left-arm pace bowling all-rounder when he was forced to focus on his batting more. Maybe it is the PTSD from that scenario that makes me cautious about this whole Jansen as an all-rounder plan.

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2022

100 what is the question

100 tests is quite clearly the answer.

 

[Aislabie]

Jansen could put in the work to get his batting up to the standard of a number seven but could potentially stagnate or regress in his bowling abilities

I honestly believe he can do both, and my reason for that is that he's a seven-foot-tall fast bowler. Whatever training plans they have for him will be so workload-limited that it should leave plenty of time for him to work on his batting.

If he were English I'd assume he'd pick up a stress fracture, and could refine his batting then like Cam Green did in Australia - but South African bowlers seem weirdly durable in recent years