South Africa Tour of Pakistan 2021

[Bevab]

An "affirmative action" policy combined with heavy investments in black communities would be better than a fixed quota. For example, when it is a close call between a Black and white player, you go with the Black player.
The fixed quota system has only hamstrung the national team.

The thing is that in the past the quotas were not this rigid and all the side had to show for it was one Makhaya Ntini in twenty years. Unless you actually force changes structurally with rules set in stone, grassroots changes rarely ever happen practically speaking. You need a catalyst to enact change ultimately.

And even with these rules, discrimination still occurs. Just a couple of years ago, there was an article that pointed out how black cricketers who were primarily top order batsmen had to play in the middle order, sometimes as low as seven or eight. Black all-rounders were often batting as low as ten or eleven and bowling only a couple of overs per day. This wasn't down to forced quota picks either, these players were legitimately not given proper chances at a higher level after proving to be competent previously. The current head coach led Titans to success but there were also accusations of racism in his own dressing room and he was part of the infamous 'clique' at the international level.

 

[Bevab]

I'd personally be against such a stiff quota continuing to exist.

If you pick the best possible SA XI, regardless of ethnicity, you get something like this:

Elgar
Markram
Rassie
Faf
von Tonder/Temba/Hamza
de Kock
Mulder/Muthusamy/Linde/Andile
Maharaj (but I miss Harmer)
Nortje
Rabada
Whoever the next best seamer is

It's still not great that there are so few POCs in that squad but until they start investing properly in grassroots cricket then this won't change

Hard disagree with that lineup for a few reasons.

Rassie, Faf and Elgar to a certain extent all offer the same qualities. Mentally resilient, not as talented to be the 'star batsman' in a top quality team but excellent supporting players averaging close to 40 that can complement a side that has one or two star batsmen. The reason why South Africa were still good until a couple of years ago despite losing the likes of Kallis, Smith and a fit Steyn was because they still had Amla and AbD, two such star batsmen (albeit one was in terminal decline).

And it is not just them. Markram who once looked like he would be a genuine match-winner (still could be, he does have boundless potential) looks like he may not become that star batsman. QdK is another who has plenty of talent but has shown no indication that even if he were to give up the gloves, he would suddenly become the sort of batsman around whom you build your lineup. His entire game seems more suited to scoring a quick 40 or 50 and that is it. Don't even get me started on Bavuma.

The frustrating thing is that unlike say the West Indian side who have no other alternatives than re-introduce Hope and Bravo alongside praying that Brathwaite suddenly manages to find some form, South Africa has clear options who are all talented, about to hit their prime or with plenty of potential and growth. Yet, these cricketers have not truly been introduced. Had Markram been younger, despite his domestic strong record he would have been forced to wait on the sidelines because this current management believes in rewarding years of service on the domestic circuit rather than try to build an actual high quality side for the next decade.

Elgar
Markram
van Tonder
Petersen
Hamza
QdK
Mulder
Maharaj
Rabada
Nortje/Dupavillon
Ngidi/Sipamla/Stuurmann/Coetzee/Jansen

And yes, I know I am being incredibly harsh on Faf and Rassie who have not really made terrible errors that warrant an axing, especially after their years of loyal service. However, the two batsmen batting in their positions have both got experience and the skill to bat in the top order and make big scores. Hamza was once one of the brightest talents in the domestic scene but seems low on confidence and technique which means that an alternative needs to play now. Whether that means an extra 5-10 tests for Bavuma (I doubt that someone who looks average in his first forty tests will suddenly become a good option), another keeper like Qeshile or Verreynne to push QdK up and hope he suddenly starts scoring centuries or they go with good old Rassie is something that only their board can decide.

I've always rated pre-injury Dupavillon as a better bowler than Nortje but not sure how well he would fare now. Present Ngidi is arguably the only contentious pick here but if he were to return to being fit, he would easily be the second choice pacer after Rabada.

 

[Mijurkat]

I think, Pakistan need to drop Abid Ali. They need a balanced opener. Every time he is getting out after consuming lots of ball. That's not a good sign. I still didn't understand why they dropped Asad? He was the most dependable batsman for them. Why they didn't use him as an opener? Where is Ahmed Shehzad? Now, they are heavily dependent on Babar & Fawad. It's bad. Technique is not everything, you need proper temperament to survive in test cricket. Misbah need to warn him.

 

[Aislabie]

Elgar
Markram
van Tonder
Petersen
Hamza
QdK
Mulder
Maharaj
Rabada
Nortje/Dupavillon
Ngidi/Sipamla/Stuurmann/Coetzee/Jansen

That is an interestingly different approach, and I see why you're particularly not in favour of having Rassie and Faf in the same side.

Honestly, I think a part of the problem is that I find South African domestic cricket one of the hardest (along with Pakistan) to give a shit about. I do not care who's playing for the Generic Warriors against the Generic Titans, in the same way that I don't care who's playing for the Sui Northern Gas Pipeline against the Sui Southern Gas Pipeline. The arguments you put forward make me think that maybe the selectors have the same problem?

I'd be happy to bin off Faf, and having had a look at van Tonder's numbers I'm pretty shocked that he's not in the side already. So he's in. I'm keeping Rassie though - I really like his temperament, and I think he's got a great future. I'm also in favour of taking the gloves off of QdK - his batting is currently not reaching its potential and if there's one thing South Africa is all set on it's keeping options. So here's a revised top six or seven

Dean Elgar
Aiden Markram
Rassie van der Dussen
Raynard van Tonder
Temba Bavuma / Zubayr Hamza / Rudi Second / Keegan Petersen / Ryan Rickelton
Quinton de Kock
Kyle Verreynne

I've not decided whether I'd want a top six or a top seven; my usual preference is to have five bowlers, but the South African batting has been awful for a while.

Then I think we're roughly on the same page when it comes to the bowling. There are three automatic selections, and then some juggling for the other one or two spots:

Wiaan Mulder / George Linde / Senuran Muthusamy / Andile Phehlukwayo
Keshav Maharaj
Anrich Nortje
Kagiso Rabada
Lungi Ngidi / Beuran Hendricks / Gerald Coetzee / Marco Jansen / Migael Pretorius

Honestly, you could put a team together from those combinations that would be really bloody good. But then the damn quota system forces your hand if you're a coach or selector. You end up having to keep de Kock keeping so that you can squeeze Bavuma, Hamza, Muthusamy and Ngidi into the side somehow

 

[CerealKiller]

I don't care who's playing for the Sui Northern Gas Pipeline against the Sui Southern Gas Pipeline

The departments have been replaced with 6 regional domestic teams, 2 years ago.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Whatever quotas are currently in place are flexible enough that they can pick Rabada, Bavuma and Maharaj in this current test match and 8 white players.

The departments have been replaced with 6 regional domestic teams, 2 years ago.

Interestingly, I believe South Africa are going the opposite direction, the franchises are due to end and a 16 team domestic set up will replace it.

 

[Aislabie]

The departments have been replaced with 6 regional domestic teams, 2 years ago.

That is an excellent step. Maybe I should start paying attention again then

Interestingly, I believe South Africa are going the opposite direction, the franchises are due to end and a 16 team domestic set up will replace it.

Bit of a weird decision, but I guess it kind of makes sense.

I'd prefer something like an ten-team setup, split into two divisions (marked and ) with promotion and relegation between them:

Eastern Cape - St George's Park, Port Elizabeth - Former teams: "Warriors", Border, Eastern Province (Kei)
Free State - Chevrolet Park, Bloem - Former teams: "Knights" (partially), Free State
Gauteng - Wanderers, Johannesburg - Former teams: "Lions" (partially), Gauteng
KwaZulu Natal - Kingsmead, Durban - Former teams: "Dolphins", KZN, KZN inland
Mashonaland - Harare Sports Club - Former Teams: Mash Eagles, Mid West Rhinos
Matebeleland - Queens, Bulawayo - Former Teams: Matebeleland Tuskers, Mountaineers, Southern Rocks
North East - SuperSport Park, Centurion - Former teams: "Titans", Northerns, Easterns (Limpopo, Mpumalanga)
North West - Senwes Park, Potch - Formerteams: "Lions" (partially), North West
Northern Cape - Diamond Oval, Kimberley - Former teams: "Knights" (partially), Northern Cape
Western Cape - Newlands, Cape Town - Former teams: "Cape Cobras", Boland, SWD, Western Province

If linking up with Zimbabwe is not possible, then eight teams and scrap the divisions. But I think it's crucial for teams to represent a geographical area and to have a name that reflects that

 

[wasteyouryouth]

That is an excellent step. Maybe I should start paying attention again then


Bit of a weird decision, but I guess it kind of makes sense.

I'd prefer something like an ten-team setup, split into two divisions (marked and ) with promotion and relegation between them:

Eastern Cape - St George's Park, Port Elizabeth - Former teams: "Warriors", Border, Eastern Province (Kei)
Free State - Chevrolet Park, Bloem - Former teams: "Knights" (partially), Free State
Gauteng - Wanderers, Johannesburg - Former teams: "Lions" (partially), Gauteng
KwaZulu Natal - Kingsmead, Durban - Former teams: "Dolphins", KZN, KZN inland
Mashonaland - Harare Sports Club - Former Teams: Mash Eagles, Mid West Rhinos
Matebeleland - Queens, Bulawayo - Former Teams: Matebeleland Tuskers, Mountaineers, Southern Rocks
North East - SuperSport Park, Centurion - Former teams: "Titans", Northerns, Easterns (Limpopo, Mpumalanga)
North West - Senwes Park, Potch - Formerteams: "Lions" (partially), North West
Northern Cape - Diamond Oval, Kimberley - Former teams: "Knights" (partially), Northern Cape
Western Cape - Newlands, Cape Town - Former teams: "Cape Cobras", Boland, SWD, Western Province

If linking up with Zimbabwe is not possible, then eight teams and scrap the divisions. But I think it's crucial for teams to represent a geographical area and to have a name that reflects that

I would like to see more cross-border cricket. If only to encourage growth of the game and provide opportunities to these smaller nations to play some cricket. I know the Africa T20 has some of that. I remember as a kid you'd see Netherlands and Scotland playing in English domestic competitions. I know Canada and the US have taken part in West Indian competitions recently.

I'd love to see the BBL and Super Smash merged. The CPL expanded/merged with this Major Cricket League.

One thing that frustrates me the most about The Hundred is, that while the ECB were pulling that out of their arse, Ireland, Netherlands and Scotland came up with the Euro T20 (a tournament I remember creating on one of the old Don Bradman games). I think if you had 1 Irish, 1 Scottish, 1 Dutch, 1 Welsh and then 6 English teams you could have a great tournament. There would be far less push back, I think, about it than the 100.

 

[Aislabie]

I would like to see more cross-border cricket.

Oh for sure; cricket is still ridiculously territorial about stuff.

Amsterdam
Birmingham
Cardiff
Dublin
Edinburgh
Leeds
London
Manchester
Nottingham
Southampton

It seems a pretty solid start to me

I completely agree about cross-border cricket though. The three best T20 tournaments (not leagues) ever played were the Africa T20, the Champions League and the Stanford 20/20. Not saying that any of them was without fault, but they all sought to look outwards which is a credit to them

As for Major League Cricket, I drew up a plan for what I think the ideal MLC would look like although it is very unrealistic

 

[CerealKiller]

Disappointing to lose Babar and Fawad early in the day, but Faheem rescued us again. He’s been in great form with the bat. Need 300+

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Pakistan has disappointed me a lot this series.

 

[CerealKiller]

Giving away boundaries like we've scored 700
New ball spells have been awful in both matches.

 

[CerealKiller]

Babar inexperience showing. Moved first slip wider, which makes no sense, and it went between him and the 'keeper.

 

[CerealKiller]

Babar inexperience showing. Moved first slip wider, which makes no sense, and it went between him and the 'keeper.

And he gets two wickets in the over anyway

 

[Bevab]

Full credit to Nortje, haven't really rated him as a world class bowler in tests but he did fine work today.