Sri Lankan Tour of Australia, October-November 2010/11

[lethalhughes]

I honestly dont see how the current AUS team would struggle without a spinner to be dead honest. As i said its not like Doherty or Hauritz are of a Vettori/Swann/Ajmal quality which demands selection & you can depend on them 90+% of the time to tie up an end + take wickets. They are just servicable whichever one you pick.

On Lee. It will be interesting to see how he performs in the Ryobi cup. Its clear Ponting & the selectors are very eager to have him back for the WC. But Based on what i understand, Lee hasn't been bowling @ his usual 145-150 kmps in the matches he has played for NSW to date. It sounds like he is around the high 130s, similar to when he was struggling in IPL this year. Thats not the Lee i want to see in the AUS ODI side. So basically he needs to get his pace back or else he shouldn't be picked again.

Agreed on the Lee point.He would have to be the Lee of old to get back in since our pace attack is already strong.U're really under estimating Hauritz and Doherty in limited overs stuff and most importantly the value of a frontline tweaker.i know they're not Vettori but neither are Clarke and Smith and we all agree that Doherty or Hauritz are much better options that Smith and Clarke.Having an all pace attack in odi is flirting with danger as teams would easily get use to that pace if thats all they're facing.Spinners are important in the middle overs since they make the batsman make their own pace, you cant under estimate the value a good odi spinner brings to a team.I had a problem when we didnt go with one when Hoggy retired and it wouldnt be logical to ignore one of two fairly good odi spinners in their own rights, especially now that :
1.the world cup is in the subcontinent
2.Hauritz has done a fairly good job, not spectacular but not bad either.
3.Doherty has been the form spinner in domestic cricket and has started his odi career very impressively.

 

[aussie1st]

But you go one better by having a guy who prevents the fall of the second wicket.

There is the guy at the other end to worry about. But really if you look at it, Clarke is our best player of spin so he should be the one to face them, you don't want him getting out before that. Haddin and Watson provide that explosive start when they come off, and if they are still around they can give the spinners a tonk. The key to both players is being able to get set which is easier to do at opener.

 

[War]

Agreed on the Lee point.He would have to be the Lee of old to get back in since our pace attack is already strong.U're really under estimating Hauritz and Doherty in limited overs stuff and most importantly the value of a frontline tweaker.i know they're not Vettori but neither are Clarke and Smith and we all agree that Doherty or Hauritz are much better options that Smith and Clarke.Having an all pace attack in odi is flirting with danger as teams would easily get use to that pace if thats all they're facing.Spinners are important in the middle overs since they make the batsman make their own pace, you cant under estimate the value a good odi spinner brings to a team.I had a problem when we didnt go with one when Hoggy retired and it wouldnt be logical to ignore one of two fairly good odi spinners in their own rights, especially now that :
1.the world cup is in the subcontinent
2.Hauritz has done a fairly good job, not spectacular but not bad either.
3.Doherty has been the form spinner in domestic cricket and has started his odi career very impressively.

In the couple ODIs in England early this summer gone when AUS basically played without a front line spinner - i saw none of the problems you highlighted.

In ODIs the best way to keep down the scoring rate is to send the batsman back to the pavillion. In the middle-overs i can certainly see the likes of Bollinger/Tait/Harris or Johnson in the XI i showed taking wickets in the middle-overs, even if they go for a few runs, very often. Since given that Hauritz/Doherty aren't of a Vettori/Ajmal/Swann quality, they are likely to blow hot & cold as ODI spinners. Some days they may be economical & other days they can be smashed. I prefer the assurity that all-pace would bring.

Plus even though the WC is being played in the sub-continent. If all the ODI series AUS have won in India since 1998, the role of the spinner has been minimal. It has been the quicks who had the most damage. The pitches in ODIs in IND usually are quite flat too, unlike the test pitches which aid the spinner. Even a few greentops have been seen in ODIs in IND, in those series AUS won as well.

Maybe in the matches in Sri Lanka & Bangladesh which AUS play, they will have to playa spinner., since those wickets will definately turn. But generally its not imporant that a spinner plays IMO.

 

[shravi]

Talk about a broken record...

 

[lethalhughes]

In the couple ODIs in England early this summer gone when AUS basically played without a front line spinner - i saw none of the problems you highlighted.

In ODIs the best way to keep down the scoring rate is to send the batsman back to the pavillion. In the middle-overs i can certainly see the likes of Bollinger/Tait/Harris or Johnson in the XI i showed taking wickets in the middle-overs, even if they go for a few runs, very often. Since given that Hauritz/Doherty aren't of a Vettori/Ajmal/Swann quality, they are likely to blow hot & cold as ODI spinners. Some days they may be economical & other days they can be smashed. I prefer the assurity that all-pace would bring.

Plus even though the WC is being played in the sub-continent. If all the ODI series AUS have won in India since 1998, the role of the spinner has been minimal. It has been the quicks who had the most damage. The pitches in ODIs in IND usually are quite flat too, unlike the test pitches which aid the spinner. Even a few greentops have been seen in ODIs in IND, in those series AUS won as well.

Maybe in the matches in Sri Lanka & Bangladesh which AUS play, they will have to playa spinner., since those wickets will definately turn. But generally its not imporant that a spinner plays IMO.

Are you talking about the same odi series that we lost verses England?We didnt fear to well, did we?I would love the day when we able to use Smith as our spin and batting him at 7 and have our 4 frontline quicks but that time shouldnt be soon.As i say it should only happen if Smith does improve his bowling.It would just be absolutely absurd to be playing a spin win the champoions trophy, beat India in India ,and just all of a sudden don't play one.We lost the odi's to SriLanka and England, as you said we didnt have a specialist spinner in England and verses the Lankans with a specialist spinner who turn the game around by taking 4 wickets,there was no way we should have lost that match and the series.So playing a specialist spinner hasn't made Australia less of a force in odi's i'll argue and a few on here will sure agree that Australia has gotten good contribution from their spinner in odi dating from the last champions trophy.If you're saying that we don't need a spinner in test then fair enough, since as decent as Hauritz has perform there is a strong possiblity a 4th quick would perform better.