Sri Lankan Tour of Australia, October-November 2010/11

[TumTum]

Why does everyone hate on Hauritz? Australia's become a better ODI side since the SA and NZ series of 08/09 mainly because they've regularly included a spinner - Hauritz.

Hmm don't agree. We got Lee & Watson back and some youngsters like Ferguson when we thrashed England at home. Then in the CT it was a Watson/Ponting/Fast-Bowlers special. Not to mention also proper openers than Clarke/Haddin that we had in 08/09.

Hauritz has just been riding on our ODI success over the last year, he hasn't really contributed anything.

 

[aussie1st]

Comments like 'Doherty can't be dropped'? Really? He was good - but not great in Sydney, but just OK in Brisbane. That's not undroppable form.

He didn't get to play in Sydney which would have been a very good place for him to bowl at. Brisbane he only got 4 overs and the quicks were doing the damage already. He did well in Melbourne which isn't known to be a spinning ground against one of the best sides against spin bowling. In that match he showed enough that he should be persisted with, Hauritz is solid nothing more.

 

[lethalhughes]

Hmm don't agree. We got Lee & Watson back and some youngsters like Ferguson when we thrashed England at home. Then in the CT it was a Watson/Ponting/Fast-Bowlers special. Not to mention also proper openers than Clarke/Haddin that we had in 08/09.

Hauritz has just been riding on our ODI success over the last year, he hasn't really contributed anything.

Totally agreed.Hauritz has done an ok job, certainly nothing spectacular.Doherty has come in and impress all, if u ask me Doherty over Hauritz and by the way i'm a Hauritz fan.Hauritz for test , Doherty for odi's.Yes tum tum coming to think of it i agree, if Lee proves himself then he should be putting pressure on Johnson, Harris has been a revelation hasnt he.Boy has McKay done brillinatly in his short odi career-30 wickets 15 matches and to think he's behind a few guys in the pecking order in odi's, what great depth we've got.

 

[TumTum]

Doherty sure has something special about him, looks a real competitor and also a wicket-taker as he showed in the 1st ODI. Being a SLA he is naturally economical as well. It has been a long time since when Australia last had a strike spin bowler in Warne in 2005 in the LOI side, our others spinners were just used as a change of pace and keep tight in the middle overs, but never intended as wicket-takers.

Going into the WC, I believe we still need to play 3 pace bowlers, historically they have been the ones that performed on the big stage and I don't like the idea of going for 2 specialist spinners just because of the conditions. And that 1 specialist spinner should be Doherty. Hauritz as we know from his last 2 tours to India would just leak runs and never threaten to pick up a wicket.

Anyways I hope the selectors experiment after the Ashes and give Doherty a chance to perform.

 

[sifter132]

Hmm don't agree. We got Lee & Watson back and some youngsters like Ferguson when we thrashed England at home. Then in the CT it was a Watson/Ponting/Fast-Bowlers special. Not to mention also proper openers than Clarke/Haddin that we had in 08/09.

Hauritz has just been riding on our ODI success over the last year, he hasn't really contributed anything.

Well OK maybe Hauritz hasn't been the 'saviour' of the side, but he's been one of the factors IMHO.

But anyway, my real point is that people have this agenda against Hauritz. Compare for example this series. General opinion is that Doherty is some massive 'find', yet he's done no better in this series than Clint McKay has. I personally think McKay's been a little better. But no one's saying that McKay should be a lock in the XI, even though there are big questions hanging over the fast bowling makeup.

Hauritz bowled well in Sydney even though Tharanga was trying to come after him for the duration of his spell. I'd be disappointed if Hauritz got the shaft based on a bit of hype.

 

[lethalhughes]

Well OK maybe Hauritz hasn't been the 'saviour' of the side, but he's been one of the factors IMHO.

But anyway, my real point is that people have this agenda against Hauritz. Compare for example this series. General opinion is that Doherty is some massive 'find', yet he's done no better in this series than Clint McKay has. I personally think McKay's been a little better. But no one's saying that McKay should be a lock in the XI, even though there are big questions hanging over the fast bowling makeup.

Hauritz bowled well in Sydney even though Tharanga was trying to come after him for the duration of his spell. I'd be disappointed if Hauritz got the shaft based on a bit of hype.

Its different with the pace bowling unit in that we have guys like, Bollinger, Harris, Johnson, Tait and lee all who have been outstanding, McKay isnt far off 2.Doherty is a real fine if you ask me, spin and drift and him being an othordox leftie means he takes the ball away from right handers.Tum Tum i disagree that the last time we had a strike bowler who bowled spin was since Warne,Brad hogg says hi.Hogg was a very very skilled and underrated odi bowler.I'm sure he has a very good record in world cups.Hogg actually had a better strike rate 35 as a pose to 36 than Warne in Odi's.Btw i didnt realise Warne 's economy was so low 4.25 thats remarkable for a leggie in odi stuff.Hogg was definitely a strike weapon.Agreed though that playing 2 spinners might be a waste, especially now that our fast bowling unit is top class in odi's.

 

[angryangy]

In terms of the quicks, I don't see any one ultimate XI. I think you take your five or six best bowlers and treat them as equals. They need to be rotated around because of steep recovery times, but no bones should be made about Johnson being out of the side if he's consistently bowling trash. Johnson leads the attack through his fitness, but in the last two years, while Johnson has taken the most wickets, Harris, McKay, Watson, Tait, Bollinger and Brett Lee have all been more effective. If it's possible to keep just 70% of the top bowlers fit, his importance shrinks and I think that may even help him reach his best as a bowler.

 

[angryangy]

Burnout is still an issue even if playing Tests alone. Bowlers will still risk injury in things like back to back Tests, or taking on 50+ overs a match like Murali. Like I said, it's about the recovery time, a sort of "Goldilocks" principle. Bowlers burn out if they don't get any time off, but lose fitness due to long layoffs. Somewhere in the middle is a sustainable work rate.

angryangy added 3 Minutes and 4 Seconds later...

Australia's top order however needs to improve or be changed. On form, Australia has the best middle order (albeit not as violent as those of South Africa or Pakistan), but the top order is behind Sri Lanka, South Africa, England and India.

It's not just about backups such as Paine. Haddin himself gets in and gets out. Ponting can look good when he gets a start, but is facing a struggle to get those starts. Watson has been somewhat consistent, but is equally consistent in playing a poor shot across the line and it denies him the chance to make big scores, or even so much as bat past 20 overs.

For Australia to make a serious attack on the World Cup, at least one permanent change must be made: Clarke must bat in the top order. For those who bemoan his strike rate, do not fret! In the last two years, he has scored much quicker in top order appearances than in the middle order and not just by filling his boots against mediocre sides; he has done best against the top five opponents. Clarke has the form to match players like Amla. Australia might be able to wing it and get away with a collapse in games where such players aren't effective, but when they are, it is going to be necessary to have a good start.

 

[aussie1st]

Its different with the pace bowling unit in that we have guys like, Bollinger, Harris, Johnson, Tait and lee all who have been outstanding, McKay isnt far off 2.Doherty is a real fine if you ask me, spin and drift and him being an othordox leftie means he takes the ball away from right handers.Tum Tum i disagree that the last time we had a strike bowler who bowled spin was since Warne,Brad hogg says hi.Hogg was a very very skilled and underrated odi bowler.I'm sure he has a very good record in world cups.Hogg actually had a better strike rate 35 as a pose to 36 than Warne in Odi's.Btw i didnt realise Warne 's economy was so low 4.25 thats remarkable for a leggie in odi stuff.Hogg was definitely a strike weapon.Agreed though that playing 2 spinners might be a waste, especially now that our fast bowling unit is top class in odi's.

I'm with TumTum on this, Hogg was a good ODI bowler but I never quite saw him as the strike weapon. He certainly could take wickets but I never got that feeling where I would be confident he would take that wicket. Anyway that is just the feeling I got, it's not to say he wasn't an attacking bowler because he was.

 

[aussie1st]

What Clarke does good is stabilize thing after 2 early wickets. Haddin or Watson aren't as consistent in that regard. I'd keep the lineup as is and have faith in Clarke picking up the pace at the end or getting out to let someone else do it.

 

[War]

Although Dohery looked good & i'd sort of support the idea of him potentially replacing Hauritz as the main ODI spinner looking ahead to the WC next year. Even if he does i dont think Doherty or any spinner is a must pick in the best AUS ODI team IMO:

This team structure that played in ENG earlier this year is the best formula for the AUS ODI XI for me: 4th ODI: England v Australia at The Oval, Jun 30, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

Watson
Haddin
Ponting
Clarke
White
Hussey
Smith
Hastings
Johnson/Harris
Bollinger
Tait

Basically just replacing Haddin with Paine, Hastings for Hopes. While the other back-ups to make up the final 15:

Johnson/Harris
Ferguson/Dussey
Doherty
Wade/Paine

 

[angryangy]

What Clarke does good is stabilize thing after 2 early wickets. Haddin or Watson aren't as consistent in that regard. I'd keep the lineup as is and have faith in Clarke picking up the pace at the end or getting out to let someone else do it.

But you go one better by having a guy who prevents the fall of the second wicket.

 

[lethalhughes]

Although Dohery looked good & i'd sort of support the idea of him potentially replacing Hauritz as the main ODI spinner looking ahead to the WC next year. Even if he does i dont think Doherty or any spinner is a must pick in the best AUS ODI team IMO:

This team structure that played in ENG earlier this year is the best formula for the AUS ODI XI for me: 4th ODI: England v Australia at The Oval, Jun 30, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

Watson
Haddin
Ponting
Clarke
White
Hussey
Smith
Hastings
Johnson/Harris
Bollinger
Tait

Basically just replacing Haddin with Paine, Hastings for Hopes. While the other back-ups to make up the final 15:

Johnson/Harris
Ferguson/Dussey
Doherty
Wade/Paine

Good team but that team doesn't have a frontline spinner.Smith wont bowl anywhere close to 10 overs.Its a crime going into an Odi match with no frontline spinner.Australia tried it a few years ago with Clarke and White as the spin options and the results said alot .The only way thats possible is if Smith improves bowling wise remarkably.Tait bollinger Harris would fill me with more confidence than Tait Johnson and Bollinger, dont know why.I guess both Tait and Johnson can be very expensive.If Lee is inform and bowling well he makes come in, his record says it all.One of the quicks would make way.

 

[War]

Good team but that team doesn't have a frontline spinner.Smith wont bowl anywhere close to 10 overs.Its a crime going into an Odi match with no frontline spinner.Australia tried it a few years ago with Clarke and White as the spin options and the results said alot .The only way thats possible is if Smith improves bowling wise remarkably.Tait bollinger Harris would fill me with more confidence than Tait Johnson and Bollinger, dont know why.I guess both Tait and Johnson can be very expensive.If Lee is inform and bowling well he makes come in, his record says it all.One of the quicks would make way.

I honestly dont see how the current AUS team would struggle without a spinner to be dead honest. As i said its not like Doherty or Hauritz are of a Vettori/Swann/Ajmal quality which demands selection & you can depend on them 90+% of the time to tie up an end + take wickets. They are just servicable whichever one you pick.

On Lee. It will be interesting to see how he performs in the Ryobi cup. Its clear Ponting & the selectors are very eager to have him back for the WC. But Based on what i understand, Lee hasn't been bowling @ his usual 145-150 kmps in the matches he has played for NSW to date. It sounds like he is around the high 130s, similar to when he was struggling in IPL this year. Thats not the Lee i want to see in the AUS ODI side. So basically he needs to get his pace back or else he shouldn't be picked again.

 

[AngryPixel]

Maybe he wasn't pushing himself much during the recent matches. He's just got back from a injury so he might be easing himself back into the game. In a few matches he could build up pace once he's satisfied with his fitness.