End Game Suburban Bliss Mafia | End game. Town & Judas wins (Fake Passport/surendar/Villain & PresidentEvil)

[SiriusBlack]

There's very little you can say to convince me that Judas is anything close to a townie. He's more like a third party and he wins if the other mafia are dead. Dead simple win condition, and I don't see reason for town to just hand it to him bc that way we don't win. If his claims are believable, then we should get rid of him first before the other mafia.

It's awkwardly written I agree. What Rudi is getting at is he doesn't have a kill ability. Saying Judas knows the mafia isn't a special ability per second, it's a matter of fact Rudi put in becuase at some point town needs to K ow that. I can tell you in practice that how the intro post is written is: (paraphrasing)

Swacker - You are the mafia boss
Fake and CK - You are not to reveal your roles here as one of you is the traitor.

Therefore CK and I know who each other is by deduction. Only swacker didn't know through the PM who was who.

I don't know if it's something Rudolph will clarify, but I don't see things being that way. Giving one person the ability to use the method of elimination defeats the purpose of having Judas there. Also, not revealing roles/claiming has never been part of a mafia game as far as I'm concerned, so I can't see two people explicitly being barred from claiming.

If knowing certain identities is explicitly defined in the role abilities, I think it's implied that nothing being listed means that the role has no idea about any identities.

Not in Judas interest at all.

Not entirely - he wants to appear as a goon to the godfather.

 

[Fake Passport]

There's very little you can say to convince me that Judas is anything close to a townie. He's more like a third party and he wins if the other mafia are dead.

That's fair enough. I was getting at the win conditions are exactly the same as a townie, but with added knowledge.

If his claims are believable, then we should get rid of him first before the other mafia

Ok, but your handing a kill to 'true' mafia then, which given the numbers is kinda a bad thing. You have 2 goon and a sleeper in 9 players to get rid of.

I doubt Rudi will clear up too much with the role statements, he's kinda 'amused' that I've gamed the system already. He's threatened to not reveal the name and role, instead only saying Mafia (Goon) if CK or I flip to take away credibility from me in Day 2.

 

[SiriusBlack]

Ok, but your handing a kill to 'true' mafia then, which given the numbers is kinda a bad thing. You have 2 goon and a sleeper in 9 players to get rid of.

The sleeper agent is there if the game gets too unbalanced, from what I infer. Like, if we get rid of mafia today and then the granny gets another one the very next night. If we get rid of Judas first, it's 6-2 and town is at an advantage.

 

[Fake Passport]

The sleeper agent is there if the game gets too unbalanced, from what I infer. Like, if we get rid of mafia today and then the granny gets another one the very next night. If we get rid of Judas first, it's 6-2 and town is at an advantage.

With the granny that's a big if tho Day 1.

Don't get me wrong, I get what you are doing in testing the courage of my conviction. Have I passed yet?

 

[Targaryen]

I don't understand the need for role claim. The way FP role claimed and swacker came clean with being aligned with mafia and they are teams is somewhat suspicious. I completely agree with the possibilities listed by Simon. The way both FP and Swacker are posting seems that they are convincing us to lynch CK by arguing and indirectly pointing towards CK and that would be a 'safe lynch'.

And I'm really amazed with the way Villain is posting. FP role claimed and swacker 'confirmed' he is a team. I mean seriously? How on earth does that prove that the 'confirmation' made by swacker is 100% correct?

I would want to read more posts before voting....

 

[Fake Passport]

I don't understand the need for role claim

It boils down to self preservation to an extent. Swacker as mafia boss, and CK who knows I'm Judas are very powerful players to have looking at you. Had I played it any other way, swacker would be reading CK and my posts and the chat and pretty quickly worked out it is me. It would have then been an easier frame-up.

Simons kinda right in that as it stood. To the 'true' mafia I'm effectively a 3rd party. If you can seperate the fact I'm a mafia member from what my role and win condition actually is...

they are convincing us to lynch CK by arguing and indirectly pointing towards CK and that would be a 'safe lynch'.

Either validates my claim. Swacker is better in that he has the kill ability and is the boss. I'm not sure that sawck and I trying to convince you all by totally outing ourselves is something anyone would think either of us would do Day 1? If swack or CK flip anything different to what Ive said I'm gone...

@PresidentEvil - if your concern is swack and I are a team, you can hammer him. It clears up everything

If there's anything you can meta from me, I always play to my win condition. I can't see how I would play like this in any other role.

 

[Targaryen]

It boils down to self preservation to an extent. Swacker as mafia boss, and CK who knows I'm Judas are very powerful players to have looking at you. Had I played it any other way, swacker would be reading CK and my posts and the chat and pretty quickly worked out it is me. It would have then been an easier frame-up.

Simons kinda right in that as it stood. To the 'true' mafia I'm effectively a 3rd party. If you can seperate the fact I'm a mafia member from what my role and win condition actually is...



Either validates my claim. Swacker is better in that he has the kill ability and is the boss. I'm not sure that sawck and I trying to convince you all by totally outing ourselves is something anyone would think either of us would do Day 1? If swack or CK flip anything different to what Ive said I'm gone...

@PresidentEvil - if your concern is swack and I are a team, you can hammer him. It clears up everything

If there's anything you can meta from me, I always play to my win condition. I can't see how I would play like this in any other role.

Do you have anything 'solid'that clears you as Judas? Same question to Swacker as well.

 

[Fake Passport]

Do you have anything 'solid'that clears you as Judas? Same question to Swacker as well.

I was first to post this. Clearly and unambiguously.

Subsequent to that swackers defence has fit within my whole narrative. He confirmed the scum team, which gives me credibility. Notice he didn't lynch me for fear of a wagon against me early which would flip me and prove me right.

Also, read his first post to my claim:

FP wanting to be revealed is strange. What I got from his statement (at least where he's concerned) is that he was crazy co-operative, assuming it was true. I don't believe this myself, but he could be trying to paint himself as super pro-town. Or he actually is pro-town. Leaning towards the latter right now.

Alerting Mafia to the existence this early on doesn't seem to have any immediate benefits beyond the fact we can potentially no-lynch for an execution. Kind of want to FoS Fake Passport because it could just be a nice cover

That doesn't make sence with his posts in the next few pages confirming the scum team etc. If you read the claim and 2 or 3 pages in, you can sense nthe desperation.

Plus, let's face it, doesn't stitching up the game through the setup match me?

 

[Villain]

I don't understand the need for role claim. The way FP role claimed and swacker came clean with being aligned with mafia and they are teams is somewhat suspicious. I completely agree with the possibilities listed by Simon. The way both FP and Swacker are posting seems that they are convincing us to lynch CK by arguing and indirectly pointing towards CK and that would be a 'safe lynch'.

And I'm really amazed with the way Villain is posting. FP role claimed and swacker 'confirmed' he is a team. I mean seriously? How on earth does that prove that the 'confirmation' made by swacker is 100% correct?

I would want to read more posts before voting....

You all are trusting FP's claim, then you say CK could be town. Seriously? Didn't he clearly mentioned CK to be other mafia. I'm trusting Swacker because he posted the condition of not to mention the boss plus FP doesn't seem to be too interested in lynching CK, he's basically pushing for lynching Swacker.[DOUBLEPOST=1502167677][/DOUBLEPOST]With Judas gone and a VT taking his place, they'd only need to get rid of the investigator(who could suicide himself if he investigates Granny) and Granny.

 

[Villain]

We didn't get any reference to neighbours in our role PM's (well, I didn't). If they were written up somehow or have some importance push CK on this because he won't know.

I guess they randomly chose me?

A VT.

I was asking if you've a neighbour (game has 2 neighbourhood watch) since you claimed a VT that could justify your claim.

 

[Villain]

There's very little you can say to convince me that Judas is anything close to a townie. He's more like a third party and he wins if the other mafia are dead. Dead simple win condition, and I don't see reason for town to just hand it to him bc that way we don't win. If his claims are believable, then we should get rid of him first before the other mafia.



I don't know if it's something Rudolph will clarify, but I don't see things being that way. Giving one person the ability to use the method of elimination defeats the purpose of having Judas there. Also, not revealing roles/claiming has never been part of a mafia game as far as I'm concerned, so I can't see two people explicitly being barred from claiming.

If knowing certain identities is explicitly defined in the role abilities, I think it's implied that nothing being listed means that the role has no idea about any identities.



Not entirely - he wants to appear as a goon to the godfather.

Judas' and town's win condition is the same 'You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated' while his condition is 'You win if all other Mafia are dead' hopefully that includes the sleeper agent too.

 

[SiriusBlack]

Judas' and town's win condition is the same 'You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated' while his condition is 'You win if all other Mafia are dead' hopefully that includes the sleeper agent too.

Contradicted yourself there.

"all other mafia" and "all threats to town" are different.
All other mafia = 2 mafia who are not Judas (3 assuming sleeper agent)
All threats to town = 3 mafia including Judas (4 assuming sleeper agent)

I've already given my thoughts on the sleeper agent, i.e. it's not a role that will necessarily be used. Be nice if @RUDOLPH confirmed or clarified.

 

[asprin]

My lynch stays. I'm willing to take a risk. The way I see it:

- We lynch swacker.
- By doing so, we will at least have confirmation about FP's claim.
- We can worry about whether Simon's theory is true (throwing in a random VT and make him look like mafia) later but as soon as day 2 starts, we can lynch FP too.
- That would mean 2 mafias off the list.
- Let's say we lose 1 VT on night 1 (killed off by granny and that would be the only kill because swacker has been taken care of and there won't be any kill from the mafia side), we will still be 4T and 2M.
- Removing FP on day 2 would mean 4T and 1M. That's still a good win.
- Of course, the sleeper agent would have been activated by then which would make it back to 4T and 2M. I can live with that.

 

[Fake Passport]

I'm trusting Swacker because he posted the condition of not to mention the boss plus FP doesn't seem to be too interested in lynching CK, he's basically pushing for lynching Swacker.

Villain, swack was lying to you and that should be evident by the fact I did post the boss and haven't been mod killed.

CK is inert. The kill power doesn't pass to him and he can't really do anything once swack is gone. I'll hammer him, it confirms me but is nowhere near the threat than swack.

 

[surendar]

Judas' and town's win condition is the same 'You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated' while his condition is 'You win if all other Mafia are dead' hopefully that includes the sleeper agent too.

Even if swacker flips as Judas, it is must for town to get rid of mafia aligned anyway. He is not going to sit back choosing no kill anyway in night. With swacker himself agreeing to alignment of mafia, not sure what would stop us to get rid of a mafia?