Symonds racially abused vs India 5th ODI

[aussie_ben91]

That's why watching Glenn McGrath comprehensively dismissing Sachin Tendulkar in India was one of the finest things you could ever watch from an Australian's point of view.

 

[Will_NA]

You guys call Sreesanth a monkey all the time

Because he does these crazy dances, he shrieks and he makes faces.

He's a character.

If cricket is too posh of a sport for people not to have fun/express themselves on the field, then I might as well stop watching it.

Makes faces...ooh! How could he!
Would you like some tea and biscuits to go with that?

:

What do you want me to say?

Symonds is not the most civilised among the people going around in the cricket world today. He is a crack himself...

I dont believe he was racially abused in that ODI. Why havent Australia lodged a complaint on this issue? If its that serious, why are they not treating it so? It all sounds fishy to me.

Maybe because they don't want it to be drawn out and let the BCCI handle it? Maybe?

 

[Will_NA]

symonds should get over it he deserves it i think

He is tried to get over it the first time it happened.

btw, who are you?

 

[WORLD CHAMPIONS]

symonds should get over it he deserves it i think

No one deserves racial abuse :

 

[Sureshot]

No it isn't. It's not a fact because it is an opinion. And if you are going to get that anal, they made monkey sounds at him. They didn't tell him that he was a monkey.

It can be interpreted as racist but if you are going to bag the fans for being racist when that wasn't their intent, then I am not going to be giving you much respect. This is the problem with over-sensitization. If there is no racist intent in a statement, I do not think it is the "perpetrators" fault that the "victim" takes offense from the incident.

As has been said over and over again, the antics of those crowd members is undesirable at the game. But I don't think you can objectively call their behavior racist because there is obviously a lot of subjectivity involved.

You should look at Animators post (which Hooper quoted in the post you quoted), it sums up monkey chants to a tee.

 

[AbBh]

To you it might be racist. But I'm pretty damn sure that wasn't the intent of the fans. Were the fans thinking Even though I'm of the same colour or even darker than Symonds I'll call him a monkey because of his colour so effectively I'm calling myself a monkey. I don't think anyone is that stupid. As sohummisra said it was undesirable but not racist.

 

[prarara]

Gawd those evil Indian fans. They should all burn in hell for being unsportsmanlike. They display the most unacceptable behaviour, especially compared to the extremely well behaved Australian, Pakistani, English and Safrican fans who actually cheer the opposition and give them cake to make them feel wellcome!


Oh good golly gosh, these Indians are Gawd-awful. Let's let the actions of a few of them judge the entire lot!

 

[sohum]

Ok, well its not a fact, but its not just one person's opinion either. Its pretty well known that Monkey is a racist remark to black person mainly from African descent. How do I know? Because its happened to me, its happened to my father and so on. Oh, well its obvious there intent..why else would they bloody do it? Just for the sake of it? Sheesh

You really don't understand the difference between insulting someone with a racist intent and insulting someone without racist intent, do you? Or the fact that it is hard to do something to someone when you don't really know about it. If you don't know that calling someone a monkey is a racist remark that is taken very seriously, how can you be blamed for calling someone a monkey if you only intended to do so because you wanted to insult them, and not because you wanted to make a racial slur. Note that I am not saying that the fans were right to abuse Symonds, but just that you have to make a distinction between their abuse being racist and non-racist because that is just how our society has developed.

This whole debate reminds me of that episode in the Simpsons where one of the kids is taken into juvenile custody because he beats up a kid of African-American heritage. His action is interpreted as a "hate-crime" just because the victim was of a minority race.

I think your just letting this blow over your head (when I mean "your" I mean all the Indian fans on this forum), because most of you guys think its not called racism while the rest of us beleive it is. I think you guys are just trying to justify it, even the Indian Cricket board aren't even looking into it properly there just "Waiting for a complaint from the Australians". Well, they know its happening then do something about it yourselves...its happening at your grounds and just giving you guys bad rep for acting like its not happening.

We are obviously not trying to justify their actions, if that's what you mean. But I will not agree that their actions can be interpreted as purely and only racial abuse. As other Indian fans on this forum have also suggested, calling someone a monkey is not a racist remark, in India. In fact, Hanuman, one of the most popular and important personalities in the Ramayana (a religious story in Hinduism--the religion that dominates most of India) is half-monkey.

And finally, I put before you this:

If Symonds were to dance around like Sreesanth after a wicket fell and people called him a monkey--would it be racist or not? If it were, then I ask you why the remark is racist since he would clearly be behaving like a monkey, regardless of his race. If it is not, then I ask you why such a fine distinction must be made.

I don't really see why an Australian would take offence to what an Indian would say in the first place. Our country totally outclasses their country in every aspect possible.

I'd honestly laugh if someone from another country attempted to be racist against me because I'm Australian. I'm proud and there is no other nationality I'd rather be.

LOL. Priceless post. It's funny that you come here and are all arrogant in our face even when your post has nothing to do with the debate at hand.

Coming to the monkey chants theory, unfortunately, it is accepted as a racist taunt. So whether you are doing it with that intent or not, if its a monkey chant, directed at a black person, it will be considered racist. Do the same to Ponting, Clarke, Hayden, or any white guy, no one will even care.

There's the problem. Racism should not depend on who a comment is directed towards, but on what principle the comment is found.

You should look at Animators post (which Hooper quoted in the post you quoted), it sums up monkey chants to a tee.

It doesn't have any contextual legitimacy when it comes to India, though. Neither did we watch that Liverpool game with the first black player nor were we involved in any level with African slave labour. Where do you reckon that we suddenly decided to call African-heritage people monkeys when they really haven't been part of our history and when we have people much more dark-skinned down south?

I felt really disgusted during the 2001 Australia-India test match, where almost the entire ground (including the VIP section) showered Glen McGrath and Shane Warne with horribly abusive chants and taunts. I could understand the frustation because Australia had outplayed India in that game, but to disrespect two of the finest players of the game, and in this way, was just unacceptable.

Were you similarly disgusted when Aussie crowds chanted no-ball during one of Murali's tours there? There are unsportsmanlike fans everywhere, and nothing is ever going to change that without taking cricket back to the formative days.

That's why watching Glenn McGrath comprehensively dismissing Sachin Tendulkar in India was one of the finest things you could ever watch from an Australian's point of view.

Regarding the above, Murali being successful in Australia will probably be a similar happy situation for Sri Lankans.

 

[sd92]

symonds should get over it he deserves it i think

Who are you? Your not the real duff. And your comment is wrong.

 

[Sureshot]

To you it might be racist. But I'm pretty damn sure that wasn't the intent of the fans. Were the fans thinking Even though I'm of the same colour or even darker than Symonds I'll call him a monkey because of his colour so effectively I'm calling myself a monkey. I don't think anyone is that stupid. As sohummisra said it was undesirable but not racist.

I can't see how it was anything other than racist, how is it undesirable but not racist? What defines the two, because if you think that because those who abused him were of the same (or darker) skin colour can abuse but can't be construed racist because of their skin colour, then you're saying that racism is exclusive to people of different skin colours.

If I was gay yet made homophobic remarks (I don't need to post them you can think them up yourselves) does that mean I'm not a racist.

If a woman says "Women should say in the kitchen" does that mean she isn't sexist?

 

[AbBh]

Of course undesirable and racism don't mean the same. I've based it on skin colour obviously because the post you referred to(and the whole incident) links monkey chants to skin colour. I was under the impression that we were discussing the alleged racist nature of this incident and not racism in general.

 

[m_vaughan]

Were you similarly disgusted when Aussie crowds chanted no-ball during one of Murali's tours there? There are unsportsmanlike fans everywhere, and nothing is ever going to change that without taking cricket back to the formative days.

That was probably the most disgusting thing ever. They do have some of the most unsportsmanlike fans in the world.

 

[Hooper]

You really don't understand the difference between insulting someone with a racist intent and insulting someone without racist intent, do you? Or the fact that it is hard to do something to someone when you don't really know about it. If you don't know that calling someone a monkey is a racist remark that is taken very seriously, how can you be blamed for calling someone a monkey if you only intended to do so because you wanted to insult them, and not because you wanted to make a racial slur. Note that I am not saying that the fans were right to abuse Symonds, but just that you have to make a distinction between their abuse being racist and non-racist because that is just how our society has developed.

This whole debate reminds me of that episode in the Simpsons where one of the kids is taken into juvenile custody because he beats up a kid of African-American heritage. His action is interpreted as a "hate-crime" just because the victim was of a minority race.


We are obviously not trying to justify their actions, if that's what you mean. But I will not agree that their actions can be interpreted as purely and only racial abuse. As other Indian fans on this forum have also suggested, calling someone a monkey is not a racist remark, in India. In fact, Hanuman, one of the most popular and important personalities in the Ramayana (a religious story in Hinduism--the religion that dominates most of India) is half-monkey.

And finally, I put before you this:

If Symonds were to dance around like Sreesanth after a wicket fell and people called him a monkey--would it be racist or not? If it were, then I ask you why the remark is racist since he would clearly be behaving like a monkey, regardless of his race. If it is not, then I ask you why such a fine distinction must be made.


LOL. Priceless post. It's funny that you come here and are all arrogant in our face even when your post has nothing to do with the debate at hand.


There's the problem. Racism should not depend on who a comment is directed towards, but on what principle the comment is found.


It doesn't have any contextual legitimacy when it comes to India, though. Neither did we watch that Liverpool game with the first black player nor were we involved in any level with African slave labour. Where do you reckon that we suddenly decided to call African-heritage people monkeys when they really haven't been part of our history and when we have people much more dark-skinned down south?


Were you similarly disgusted when Aussie crowds chanted no-ball during one of Murali's tours there? There are unsportsmanlike fans everywhere, and nothing is ever going to change that without taking cricket back to the formative days.


Regarding the above, Murali being successful in Australia will probably be a similar happy situation for Sri Lankans.

Monkey isn't about skin colour only - its about the African in you, African's have facial features that are more similar to monkey's then Indians or white people. So people, stop saying "Well Indians are brown as well, why would they tease themselves?" Because its not about that.

No more excuses, and as much as you are trying to say you're not - you are trying to justify the actions from the Indian crowds.


(When I mean Africans, I mean African-Americans. West Indians and other countries with African ancestors. I betcha if you came to my house and called my Dad a monkey (he is African American) he would whip out his baseball bat from under his bed and smash the crap outta you)

Regarding the above, Murali being successful in Australia will probably be a similar happy situation for Sri Lankans.

Hes taken like 3 wickets in Australia...we are sooo scared!

 

[AbBh]

Monkey isn't about skin colour only - its about the African in you, African's have facial features that are more similar to monkey's then Indians or white people. So people, stop saying "Well Indians are brown as well, why would they tease themselves?" Because its not about that.

No more excuses, and as much as you are trying to say you're not - you are trying to justify the actions from the Indian crowds.

All that has been mentioned about it has been he's dark so they called him monkey. You try to bring up this issue when you see that reference to colour wont work. Do you really think that the average Indian cricket fan would be aware that Symonds is of African-American descent and try to target his race by calling him a monkey?
This part of his post gives quite an appropriate explanation against what you've said.

It doesn't have any contextual legitimacy when it comes to India, though. Neither did we watch that Liverpool game with the first black player nor were we involved in any level with African slave labour. Where do you reckon that we suddenly decided to call African-heritage people monkeys when they really haven't been part of our history and when we have people much more dark-skinned down south?

It's quite clear to me that their intent wasn't to be racist but people from other countries have different opinions because of their experience in their country.

 

[Hooper]

All that has been mentioned about it has been he's dark so they called him monkey. You try to bring up this issue when you see that reference to colour wont work. Do you really think that the average Indian cricket fan would be aware that Symonds is of African-American descent and try to target his race by calling him a monkey?
This part of his post gives quite an appropriate explanation against what you've said.


It's quite clear to me that their intent wasn't to be racist but people from other countries have different opinions because of their experience in their country.

Yeah "all thats been mentioned", you go ask the Indian fans who are doing why they are calling him a monkey. You can't just assume that they don't know that monkey is associated with Africans becayse "they weren't involved in the the African slave labour or that Liverpool game", because Animator wasn't involved with it and he surely knows it! Yes, the colour thing does work! Thats half of what being called a monkey is based on, then your facial features from having African in you, because a lot of the racists a while back believed that people with African in them weren't as evolved and were just dumb monkeys! I do think they know he is from African descent, were else would he get his colour from? Asia? Yeah, he does have Asian in him, but you don't really notice it to much.

Oh and;

Indian -

West Indian -

Totally different facial features, notably more darker (I know some Indians are dark as well) they just dont look the same do they?



Anyways, I just wished you guys would stop trying to defend your fans actions...Its clearly racist to some people, you obviously don't understand. All I want done is for an apology to Cricket Australia and Symonds, them fans to be banned and for it never to happen again.
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The BBCI has claimed in never happened

Liars, if it never happened then why would Ponting and Symonds make references to it? Symonds even mentioned it in his speech.