The state of off-spin bowling/suspect actions/doosra bowlers worldwide

[Markkkkk]

Exactly what I thought as I posted it. Think Narine has better variations but Warne was just on another level. Think Narine can overtake him if he develops enough and fixes his attitude towards the WI.

 

[cooks1st100]

The only time I've seen Narine bowl was against England in a test a couple of years back and wasn't that impressed at the time to be honest. Maybe I'll watch some youtube vids.

 

[Markkkkk]

Yea and his stats speak for themselves (Not in tests, sadly). Havent seen many bowlers in world cricket going at under 5.50 an over in T20s. Also the only off-break bowler who can bowl a 'googly' as well.

 

[Satan666]

Well if you think about it, why not? What basic essence of cricket will be lost if a bowler does bend his arm say 80 degrees.

The rules have been too much in favor of Batsmen off late, anyway, if for once tweaking the rules, gives the bowlers an edge, I am all for it.

Also more than a Batsman vs Bowlers issue, I feel its a question of protecting genius. Thats what Narine and Ajmal are, and if cricket has to tweak the rules just a little bit, which doesn't in anyway affect the basic essence of the sport to begin with, then the rules should be tweaked.

Bowling with a bent arm is classified as pelting or throwing, ask any elementary school kid that its the first thing their coach/physical ed instructor teaches them!

Dont get waxed playbuoy! Cheaters can never be classified as geniuses!

 

[Satan666]

Believe 15 was chosen because it was the angle at which flex began to appear visibly noticeable in real time. If you suddenly start changing it for example up to 20, every spinner is going to start trying to get closer to gain the benefits it gives. And when bowler start to get borderline on that, why not 30? 50? 90?

Of late these type of people have grown accustomed to breaking the rules of cricket and just making a pure mockery of the game, dont bother with them.

 

[PokerAce]

Is abusing the current rules to gain an advantage over others really genius? Ajmal has shown himself to be fairly average on his return so far for starters.

Well the point is not that "current" rules are being bent. This is a rather microscopic point of view to take. Okay yes I get it, someone says 15 degrees and this guy bends his arm more than that, so off you go. Fair enough, but that is still the unimaginative or shall I say the microscopic view to take.

Its like a bunch of guys getting together and saying 15 degrees, now there, its done. Anyone doing more than that is guilty of blasphemy.

People restricting the bowling arm bend rule to 15 degrees, are not taking the imaginative route. Think of it this way, by just allowing 5 to 10 degrees more, an whole new delivery comes into existence, isnt that more fun than killing innovation, going, well we said 15 degrees, and it ain't 15 degrees so its a no no.

Is it worth killing off a great new innovation in the sport, in the name of preserving a silly rule, which frankly achieves little anyway, and is based off on a random number to begin with anyway. 15 degrees, why 15, why not 20?

The point is we can be the unimaginative stickler for rules headmasters of twenty thirty years ago, and say well the book says it must be done so, and hence no improvisation allowed. Or we can be a little more imaginative and say, okay lets go the extra 10 miles (degrees) and see if we fall off the edge.

The point is that even if by bending the arm 10 degrees more, there was no real innovation, I would say lets stick to 15 degrees no problem. However, here if we tweak the rules just a little there is so much innovation to be had. So why take the stickler for rules attitude.

Surely the essence of bowling is what would be lost. Throwing a ball accurately is far easier than bowling one accurately.

Umm again, Ajmal was accused of and indeed shown to have at times bent his arm upto as much as 35 degrees. Tell me if anyone even noticed anything different in any of those 35 degree deliveries. People didn't know the difference till afterwards, when the Ajmal results were announced. At no point did anyone stop and say well this ain't bowling anymore.

The point is its just such a technical thing that people barely notice it till someone is in a studio all wired up getting tested for how much his arm bends.

 

[PokerAce]

It will give more than an edge, especially also right now very few are pushing it cause of the fear of chucking and the guys who do it are the ones who are able to do borderline stuff, if not it will become the easy way out, and we would have endless allrounders as decent part time bowlers will become more accurate n threatening.

two wrongs dont make a thing right, the best way to tilt favor to bowling is good sporting pitches as we saw in the recent WI vs eng test.. it was no minefield but today's batsman are so pampered with flat tracks that they struggle at the sight of a pitch that does a bit. More of those we will have some great games.

Odi's field restriction and two newball is killing it especially spin.

when we can get the balance of bat n ball without altering the art of bowling why go for the other choice.

Well actually you pick one of the side issues to address from my post. Yes the point is that we want bowlers to do better, but that was not the reason why I was saying don't be such a stickler for rules.

The basic point is that if by stretching the 15 degree rule there was no real innovation to be had, I would say lets stick to the 15 degree thing. However if by sticking to a rule, based on a rather random number to begin with, we are missing out on some great innovations in the sport, which doesn't have any real dangers to trade-off on, then what is the harm in stretching this rule to allow in more innovation.

We get deliveres like the teesra, doosra, and the what not to come into an off-spinners' bag, and what really is the harm here, apart from the fact that a rule will be broken. The game will improve, there will be more innovation, why then be a stickler for rules here needlessly.

 

[_Sam_]

Well the point is not that "current" rules are being bent. This is a rather microscopic point of view to take. Okay yes I get it, someone says 15 degrees and this guy bends his arm more than that, so off you go. Fair enough, but that is still the unimaginative or shall I say the microscopic view to take.

Its like a bunch of guys getting together and saying 15 degrees, now there, its done. Anyone doing more than that is guilty of blasphemy.

People restricting the bowling arm bend rule to 15 degrees, are not taking the imaginative route. Think of it this way, by just allowing 5 to 10 degrees more, an whole new delivery comes into existence, isnt that more fun than killing innovation, going, well we said 15 degrees, and it ain't 15 degrees so its a no no.

Is it worth killing off a great new innovation in the sport, in the name of preserving a silly rule, which frankly achieves little anyway, and is based off on a random number to begin with anyway. 15 degrees, why 15, why not 20?

The point is we can be the unimaginative stickler for rules headmasters of twenty thirty years ago, and say well the book says it must be done so, and hence no improvisation allowed. Or we can be a little more imaginative and say, okay lets go the extra 10 miles (degrees) and see if we fall off the edge.

The point is that even if by bending the arm 10 degrees more, there was no real innovation, I would say lets stick to 15 degrees no problem. However, here if we tweak the rules just a little there is so much innovation to be had. So why take the stickler for rules attitude.



Umm again, Ajmal was accused of and indeed shown to have at times bent his arm upto as much as 35 degrees. Tell me if anyone even noticed anything different in any of those 35 degree deliveries. People didn't know the difference till afterwards, when the Ajmal results were announced. At no point did anyone stop and say well this ain't bowling anymore.

The point is its just such a technical thing that people barely notice it till someone is in a studio all wired up getting tested for how much his arm bends.

You must've missed the continous accusations and moaning every time he played (admittedly usually after he'd taken a few wickets) and even the claims that his records should be completely abolished as a result.

 

[PokerAce]

Exactly what I thought as I posted it. Think Narine has better variations but Warne was just on another level. Think Narine can overtake him if he develops enough and fixes his attitude towards the WI.

I doubt Narine can ever, or indeed anyone can ever overtake Warne ... however if Narine is given the room to work with, he can definitely carve out his own place in history, no doubt.

 

[Markkkkk]

I doubt Narine can ever, or indeed anyone can ever overtake Warne ... however if Narine is given the room to work with, he can definitely carve out his own place in history, no doubt.

Yea you probably right. Lets see how Narine goes in the next couple years as spinners generally peak in the late twenties/early thirties.

 

[cooks1st100]

Tell me if anyone even noticed anything different in any of those 35 degree deliveries.

Ajmal's action has always looked dodgy to me and last night i watched a few vids of Narine and instantly I thought to myself I can see why he has been pulled up. Then I read a few articles and found out that it was his off-spinner that was in question. Jeez if he can't bowl a stock delivery without bending his arm then he should not be playing in my opinion, as he is cheating.

Well actually you pick one of the side issues to address from my post. Yes the point is that we want bowlers to do better,

I want to see this also but the way to do it is by producing wickets that are fair to both batsman and bowler, not by bending the rules to accommodate individuals who would otherwise be average. It makes a mockery of the sport.

 

[Markkkkk]

I feel removing the limit for bouncers and increasing the leg side wide's would help.

 

[_Sam_]

Marlon Samuels is someone I'm shocked wasn't reported in the recent England series personally, his action looked extremely dodgy to me.

From watching the IPL so far the people with the most flex I've seen so far (exclude Narine) are probably Botha and Harbhajan.

 

[War]

What? Whenever he bowls his off spinners, his action is different than his old one. However, today he didn't bowl many off spinners but when he did bowl, he bowled differently. Today, KP in Sky sports studio basically said that when Sunil Narine was reported for the second time during this IPL, he was bowling his off spinners with his old action and his speed which has been generally down since he changed his action, went back up.

Well get back to you on this when i watch some more video comparisons.

 

[War]

Mohammad Hafeez reported for suspect action again | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Was surprised when he was cleared again recently. Just stop trying to bowl Hafeez!