Time to say goodbye?

Is it time for Broad to go back to Notts and work on his game?

  • Yes, definitely

    Votes: 13 61.9%
  • No, give him more time

    Votes: 3 14.3%
  • Maybe, his performances are not up to Test cricket standard (yet)

    Votes: 5 23.8%

  • Total voters
    21

Owzat

International Coach
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
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Has Broad done enough to justify continued inclusion? England favour the five bowler theory, but if one isn't taking enough wickets can they include him on the basis of a decent batting average?

SCJ BROAD

Tests : 19
Inns : 25
Not Out : 5
Runs : 582
Ave : 29.10
HS : 76
50s : 3

Balls : 3736
Runs : 2053
Wkts : 50
Ave : 41.06
SR : 74.72
ER : 3.30
BB 5/85
5wi : 1

BY OPPONENT

vs Australia : 49 runs @ 16.33 & 4 wkts @ 76.75
vs India : 1 run @ 1.00 & 2 wkts @ 67.00
vs South Africa : 161 runs @ 53.67 & 8 wkts @ 49.00
vs Sri Lanka : 2 runs @ 2.00 & 1 wkt @ 95.00

vs New Zealand : 209 runs @ 34.83 & 15 wkts @ 37.00
vs West Indies : 160 runs @ 26.67 & 20 wkts @ 28.50


vs AUS/IND/SAF/SRI : 213 runs @ 26.63 & 15 wkts @ 61.87
vs NZE/WIN : 369 runs @ 30.75 & 35 wkts @ 32.14


So his record with the ball overall is poor for a frontline bowler, if you split it by quality of opponent you can see he struggles against the better nations while maintains a fairly ordinary average against the likes of New Zealand and West Indies. His record with the bat is pretty decent for someone batting down the order, but he needs to sustain an average of around 30-35 to justify a place in the side. The analyses below should show how beneficial his batting is and further look at his bowling


WICKETS BY FREQUENCY

INNINGS

0 wkts : 8
1 wkts : 9
2 wkts : 9
3 wkts : 6
4 wkts : 0
5 wkts : 1

TEST

0 wkts : 3
1 wkts : 3
2 wkts : 2
3 wkts : 5
4 wkts : 2
5 wkts : 4

Picking up 2-3 wickets is ok but he's only doing that half the time. ideally you'd want your bowlers to pick up 3-4 wickets a Test, Broad is averaging 2.63 wickets per Test although he didn't bowl in five innings (excluded from the innings analysis) The other problem is he's simply not picking wickets up against the better sides and the above analysis alone can't reflect that.

TEST vs AUS/IND/SAF/SRI

0 wkts : 1 (current Test)
1 wkts : 3
2 wkts : 2
3 wkts : 1
4 wkts : 0
5 wkts : 1

Picking up 1-2 wickets in a Test against good opposition puts too much pressure on the rest of the attack, if he can only pull his weight in 25% of Tests against the better opposition then he may as well be replaced with a batsman or bowler.

So does his batting down the order justify his lack of bowling contribution? (so far)

RUNS BY FREQUENCY

INNINGS

DNB : 13
00-09 : 7
10-19 : 8
20-29 : 2
30-39 : 3
40-49 : 2
50+ : 3

TEST

DNB : 1
00-19 : 7
20-39 : 6
40-59 : 1
60-80 : 4

He's mostly contributing 10s and 20s, that is when he does bat which is only 2/3 of the time. But even Anderson is weighing in with 10s and 20s, five of Anderson's last six knocks have been 14+ and while Anderson's average may be only just over half Broad's, his bowling average is around 34 which is a lot closer to where it should be.

And from the runs per Test analysis it is pretty clear that Broad chips in reasonably often, about 2/3 of the time, but only 1/4 of the time does he chip in with the kind of runs that could justify including someone with such a weak bowling average.

So is he just another Ashley Giles? Included because he "can bat and can bowl" without carrying his weight often enough to justify it? Giles had a few good series, against the West Indies and when playing in favourable conditions. Otherwise his average might have been a whole lot worse

AF GILES

Tests : 54
Inns : 81
Not Out : 13
Runs : 1421
Ave : 20.90
HS : 59
50s : 4

Balls : 12180
Runs : 5806
Wkts : 143
Ave : 40.60
SR : 85.17
ER : 2.86
BB 5/57
5wi : 5

So Broad is a better bat, not a great surprise, but was Giles a more likely match-winner?

10+ WICKETS IN A SERIES

GILES (5) : 17 vs Pakistan (00/01), 18 vs Sri Lanka (03/04), 22 vs West Indies (2004), 11 vs South Africa (04/05) & 10 vs Australia (2005)

BROAD (1) : 12 vs West Indies (08/09)

While there is a fair difference between the two in terms of batting ability and bowling types, the purpose and contribution of both is very similar. Is there any doubt that both were very much the fifth bowler?
 
Why we will say broad buy he will be back one day i think he should concentrate on batting rather then bowling for god say he is really good bastmen.:)
 
No harm having a Giles in the side. Difference is that Giles could build pressure when not taking wickets. Keep runs down. Broad doesn't do that, he is an attacking bowler who isn't Test-quality yet, and low in form and confidence.

Send him back, bring in Harmy. You've got Swann who can chip in with runs, and Anderson too.
 
If I was an England fan, of course I would want him to be dropped. However, I'm an Australian fan, and right now I'm happy he is taking the ball early in sessions and doing a fair bit of bowling.
 
Id say yes but only AND ONLY IF Steve Harmison is selected instead. I like Broad and I think he has a great attitude. I think his problem is that he is caught in between being an attacking bowler and being a defensive bowler; hes not sure which one he is. I think he needs to go back to county cricket and figure out which of those he wants to be and learn to bowl consistently. In my opinion theres no way in the world that Broad is going to be a Simon Jones or James Anderson who can swing the ball. I think if England are ever going to produce a Glenn McGrath, then Stuart Broad could well be it. I think Broad at the moment resembles a youn Glenn McGrath in many ways. However, like McGrath did I think he needs to learn how to constantly his a good length and learn how to make the ball just do enough, with subtle variations in swing and movement etc.
 
No, because I`m Australian and that the crappier bowlers there are for England, the better.

Nah, but in all seriousness, Yes. He needs to regain his form in county cricket, he`s clearly not ready to bowl against quality sides, if not in Test cricket.
 
He's a batsman who bowls part time at the moment. I've said it all along. He does nothing with the ball. He's just rubbish.
 
I don't think he deserves quite as much critiscm as he's getting but yea, Sidey/Harmy could probably do more in the Test arena atm.

He's not rubbish though and is worth keeping around. He performs in ODI's and I do believe in tests in the future.

Indeed, compared to Flintoff's stats for his first 5 years, Broad's are much better so let's not write him off completely
 
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Why we will say broad buy he will be back one day i think he should concentrate on batting rather then bowling for god say he is really good bastmen.:)

This is why we should drop his arse. Swann can bat at 8, we dont need Broad.
 
Hes got potential its just he bowls too much crap like Johnson. He got an outswinger and seems to be able to bowl around the 145km/h mark and I have seen him push the 150km/h mark this series. Just needs to get his control sorted.
 
I don't think he deserves quite as much critiscm as he's getting but yea, Sidey/Harmy could probably do more in the Test arena atm.

He's not rubbish though and is worth keeping around. He performs in ODI's and I do believe in tests in the future.

Indeed, compared to Flintoff's stats for his first 5 years, Broad's are much better so let's not write him off completely

How about you redo the filter for the same period of time Broad has been playing Tests, and allow for the fact that Broad has played mostly rubbish sides (WIN/NZE) and averages over 60 with the ball against the better sides. There's no guaranteeing just because Flintoff became a good but not great bowler and batsman, that Broad will. There's no cause and effect between the two, they are unrelated.
 
I can't see the English selectors dropping him. They clearly want him to fill the Flintoff void once he retires.
 
Except Broad is no Flintoff so far. Get him back to County Cricket, he just looks like a big lanky bowler throwing down deliveries on a good length to wallop.

He will come good, but right now he is not test bowler.
 
You may see it but as you know with our selectors they will keep the faith in any all rounder that could become good. Can't see the English selectors losing their 5th bowling option and they have already shown their hand when they let Broad replace Flintoff when he was injured instead of going with an extra batter.
 
Hes not going to come good by getting walloped every test is he?


His wickets seem to be out of luck or from batsman going after him... I don't rate him as of yet and I think England are trying to rush his development. Look at Jimmy Anderson's early career.
 

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