Top 100 in ODI history - 2: Tendulkar, 1: Richards

[sifter132]

^Yeah can't squeeze Jayawardene in now, but definitely he's one of my favourite players too

The list has some major problems. Akhtar below Johnson and Border?? Really? And Shakib above Razzak and Hogg?? I might not even have Shakib in my top 100.

Of course the list has some problems But tell me why: why is Akhtar so clearly better than Johnson? Why is Shakib not as good as Razzaq or Hogg? I'm not going to move them up or down... but it's always nice to hear some expansion on opinions.

Have you done a top 20 or 50 list icon? Would like to have it, so I can add to my data.

Didn't quite finish this guy last night, so he's in this morning...
#87 - Sarfraz Nawaz

Role: RH Fast medium opening bowler, decent RH bat at #8 or #9.

Debut: vs New Zealand, Christchurch, 1973.
Matches: 45
Wkts: 63
Avg: 23.22
Econ: 3.63

Legacy: First guy on the list I've never seen play. From what I've read of Sarfraz he was a tall, workhorse bowler. Very fit and accurate. Not express pace, but faster than he looked. Could swing the ball both ways, and was perhaps the first man to start reverse swinging the ball (back when no one knew about it). He taught Imran Khan a lot of stuff about bowling during the 70s when Imran was the young up and comer in the Pakistan team. And random note: former Aussie fast bowler Stuart Clark was nicknamed Sarfraz because they had similar bowling actions.

Sarfraz's career spanned for 11 years, yet he only got to play 45 ODIs. Stunning how little ODI cricket was played in the 70s compared to now.

Three of the best (matches in chronological order):
1) 4/46 (7.3) vs New Zealand, Christchurch, 1973. On debut, and NZ quickly found out that this guy could bowl, 4 wickets down quickly as Sarfraz got 3 of them. 8 ball overs in this game, so his economy looks higher.
2) 4/44 (12) vs West Indies, Birmingham, 1975. World Cup and a group match that proved to be crucial. Pakistan made 266, and Sarfraz quickly had WI in trouble at 3/36 getting the first 3 wickets (Greenidge, Fredericks and Kallicharran). He came back at the end to get the 9th wicket and WI looked sunk as they were still 64 short, but Deryck Murray and Andy Roberts scraped the runs with 2 balls left. It meant Pakistan missed the semis.
3) 4/27 (10) vs Australia, Sydney, 1984. Got the top 4 Aussie batsmen: Phillips and Hughes at the start, Wessels and Border in the middle. Absolutely no support from the rest of the bowlers though, so Australia still made 264 and it was too much.

Highlights:
Not a lot of highlights of this guy, obviously...Rob's uploaded his 9/86 vs Australia in a Test match - it'll give you a bit of an idea of his style

 

[sami ullah khan]

Shoaib Akhtar bowled a hell lot quicker than Jhonson and was more of a match winner. Bowling wise he was better than Jhonson. Also he had one quality that Jhonson does not possess i.e. Shoaib had a fear factor about him. Batsmen genuinely were scared when facing him. He could unsettle the most established of the batsmen. Jhonson however is an allrounder and better than shoaib in the field and with the bat.

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Good to see Sarfraz in the list. He was the pioneer of mystic art of reverse. A lot of bowlers were successful especially from Pakistan using that very art.

 

[cricket_icon]

The reason I'd pick Akhtar over Johnson every day of the week is because Akhtar was simply the better bowler. He could swing the bowl both way, had a better bouncer and slower delivery, was far faster and could get that reverse swing almost at will. Johnson struggles to swing the bowl and when he does it's a happening. Admittedly Johnson may be seen as an allrounder but his batting isn't show stopping. He has had a few good innings but nothing that has me in awe. I'm struggling to see if he would even be in my top 100.

As for the Razzak/Hogg and Shakib argument, I think it is pretty straight forward, Razzak was the better alrounder. He is by miles the more fearsome batsman and even when he had fallen from his prime he still managed to obliterate bowling attacks (just ask England). ODI cricket is all about explosiveness and having the ability to change the game in the blink of an eye. Razzak, for a few years, made that a regular thing. Hogg on the other hand was simply the better bowler. That fact that he performed well at home also adds to his ranking.

 

[sifter132]

More Pakistanis to argue about...

#86 - Shahid Afridi

Role: All-rounder, started more as a batting all-rounder, now a bowling all-rounder. RH batsman, has batted most as a pinch-hitting opener, next most: at #7. RH leg spinner.

Debut: vs Kenya, Nairobi, 1996.
Matches: 342
Runs: 7040
Avg: 23.62
S/R: 113.87
Wkts: 344
Avg: 33.37
Econ: 4.60

Legacy: A great matchwinner. I argued earlier with puddleduck about this, but I think if a choice has to be made Afridi will be remembered most for his batting. He holds 2 impressive batting records: highest career strike rate for players over 1000 runs (113.87), and fastest century in ODI history (off 37 balls).

His bowling is certainly decent-to-good as well and you certainly don't want to go asleep on Afridi because he likes getting wickets in clumps. He has 8 x 5 wicket hauls in his career, 4th most on the all-time list.

Three of the best (matches in chronological order):
1) 102 (40) & 1/43 (10) vs Sri Lanka, Nairobi, 1996. What a start! 2nd match, 1st innings in his career and he cracks a 100 off 37 balls coming in at #3. Sure Nairobi is a small ground, but Sri Lanka had a reasonable attack and he's still 7 balls faster than the next fastest century in history.
2) 24 (16) & 6/38 (10) vs vs Australia, Dubai, 2009. Australia were cruising at 1/95 in the 19th over when Afridi struck first. From there Australia could do nothing, Haddin, Watson, Symonds, Ferguson, Bracken and Clark his wickets. Then struck some fairly important quick runs when Pakistan were having a bit of a shaky moment in their chase of 169.
3) 75 (65) & 5/35 (9.2) vs Sri Lanka, Sharjah, 2011. Came in at 5/71 and left 110 runs later with Pakistan managing 200. In reply Sri Lanka were cruising at 3/155 before Afridi got both Sangakkara and Jayawardene and engineered a fearful collapse to give Pakistan the win.

Highlights:

 

[Fenil]

May be my top 20 would help you. I've done quite a good research for it.

1. Viv Richards
2. Sachin Tendulkar
3. Wasim Akram
4. Glenn McGrath
5. Muthiah Muralitharan
6. Joel Garner
7. Michael Bevan
8. Ricky Ponting
9. Sanath Jayasuriya
10. Shaun Pollock
11. Brian Lara
12. Waqar Younis
13. Gordon Greenidge
14. Mark Waugh
15. Shane Warne
16. Imran Khan
17. Dean Jones
18. Zaheer Abbas
19. Sir Richard Hadlee
20. Inzamam ul Haq/Rahul Dravid/Saeed Anwar

I hope that helps you Jason.

 

[Bevab]

A great thread mate. Glad to have time to follow this.

 

[Papa_Smurf]

Good to see Sarfraz in the list. He was the pioneer of mystic art of reverse. A lot of bowlers were successful especially from Pakistan using that very art.

I find this very debatable. Sarfraz may have discovered the effects of a roughed up ball, but he lacked the pace to reverse it himself. It was Imran who first pioneered it, and I think it had mostly to do with him being the first proper fast bowler from the subcontinent. The ball gets roughed up naturally in the SC, but before Imran, no bowler from that part of the world had the pace to reverse it.

 

[sifter132]

I think you mean Imran was more effective with it? Because surely Sarfraz actually bowled it - he mentions it, and those who have written about him mention it. But Imran probably had that extra 10-15kph to make the reversing ball more difficult to play.

I hope that helps you Jason.

Thanks Fenil I did have an earlier list from you, will adjust it based on this one. Looks good


For the Akhtar vs Johnson stuff...I agree Akhtar was more feared and yes more talented, but batsmen also knew that he didn't produce all the time. So if they saw he was struggling for rhythm then it was actually GOOD for batsmen because his extra pace and looseness gave them help in scoring. Johnson is similar in many ways but not quite as extreme. But if you caught Shoaib on one of his days where everything clicked, then yes - not much fun facing him I imagine. It's tough to weigh up when making the list, talent, match winning ability, skills, performance, consistency, effect on the game - so many things to weigh up!

Anyway, I appreciate your responses Keep the debates flowing, because no one can ever make a perfect list

 

[sifter132]

#85 - Jonty Rhodes

Role: RH middle order bat, mostly at #5 but batted a lot at #6 and #4 as well.

Debut: vs Australia, Sydney, 1992.
Matches: 245
Runs: 5935
Avg: 35.11
S/R: 80.90

Legacy: Fielding mainly, but it's a bit unfair for Jonty because he was a pretty effective innings finisher too for South Africa. Never made a lot of big scores - partly because SA were a strong team and didn't need them, but always scored at a healthy rate. In particular, his quickness between the wickets put pressure on fielding teams at the end of an innings.

In the field he created chaos for the batsmen because he was so quick to the ball and could cover huge amounts of ground. Jonty could stop singles by sheer reputation alone, with anything even close to him being considered a dot ball by the batsmen. Whether he's the best fieldsman ever...well I'm not going to argue about that title. He was definitely a great one.

Three of the best (matches in chronological order):
1) 40 (42) & 5 ct vs West Indies, Mumbai, 1993. Made important runs in a low scoring match, but it was the 5 catches for Jonty that got him Man of the Match. 3 of them were pretty special - see vid below @ 0:58, 2:07 and 3:17.
2) 121 (114) vs Pakistan, Nairobi, 1996. Rhodes and Cullinan put on a big partnership vs a good attack (Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain) to make 321, then Rhodes ran out Pakistan's best batsman, Saeed Anwar, in the first over of the chase.
3) 83* (76) vs Australia, Cape Town, 1997. Every SA batsman struggled but Rhodes, who kickstarted the innings after a slow start. Only one other player made over 30 in the match (Bevan in Australia's unsuccessful chase).

Highlights:

 

[sami ullah khan]

I find this very debatable. Sarfraz may have discovered the effects of a roughed up ball, but he lacked the pace to reverse it himself. It was Imran who first pioneered it, and I think it had mostly to do with him being the first proper fast bowler from the subcontinent. The ball gets roughed up naturally in the SC, but before Imran, no bowler from that part of the world had the pace to reverse it.

I totally get your point. Reverse swing used to be in Pakistan domestic circuit even in 60s. Kardar used to bowl a bit of reverse in his day. Sarfraz was the first one to experiment with reverse in the international arena. Imran got to use it better due to extra pace he had. I think I have heard the great man mention this in an interview.

 

[swacker]

I like the presentation you got there.

Jonty Rhodes is obviously one of the greatest fielder I have ever seen tbh, so I might have brought him down a little bit.

 

[sifter132]

#84 - Graeme Smith

Role: LH Opening bat

Debut: vs Australia, Bloemfontein, 2002.
Matches: 181
Runs: 6598
Avg: 39.04
S/R: 81.58

Legacy: The powerfully built former South African captain. Has quite a pronounced grip on the bat which makes him look a bit ungainly, but is still effective, particularly for his leg side play. And his technique has been successful as the record shows. Smith has been a particularly good chaser over his career: his average in the 2nd innings is around 11 runs higher (45 vs 34) and he has 6 2nd innings 100s vs 3 in the 1st innings.

Under Smith's watch the unfortunate trend of South African teams unable to win a big trophy has continued. Semi-finalists in 2007 World Cup, quarter-finalists in 2011 World Cup, a number of Champions Trophy bomb outs. I feel for Smith because South Africa has always been in the top 2 or 3 ODI teams under his watch.

Three of the best (matches in chronological order):
1) 41 (52) & 3/30 (10) vs Sri Lanka, Perth, 2006. Smith bowling?? Yep he trundled his offies a bit in this series - this time very successfully, taking out Mubarak, Jayasuriya and Jayawardene.
2) 119 (124) vs Australia, Centurion, 2006. 204 in 41 overs was the target, vs Lee, Bracken and Johnson, but Smith was brilliant, easily top scoring in a successful SA chase.
3) 141 (134) vs England, Centurion, 2009. Another big Smith chase at Centurion, but this time unsuccesful in the Champions Trophy. SA needed 324, but no one could stay with Smith - he was last man out. De Villiers 36 was the 2nd highest score of the innings.

Highlights:
Harder than I expected to find ODI highlights of Smith So enjoy some Smith Test match batting, you get to see a lot of shots still

 

[sami ullah khan]

So does having a hot girlfriend help a candidate's cause in this list Sifter

 

[cricket_icon]

This thread is starting to get the cricket selector in me salivating. I'll have a top 25, may be even a top 30 up soon, hopefully. I like the inclusion of Afridi in the list. Go back half a decade I wouldn't have him anywhere near a top 100 but now....possibly even top 50 in my eyes....now that I think about it, he could be a lot higher. Gota get my thinking hat on.

 

[sifter132]

^Actually I've since realised I left a column out of the sums of my (very messy) spreadsheet. Afridi is actually meant to be up at #79, but too much bother to switch it around now. 86, 79...pretty close Looking forward to reading your list too Feel free to list as many as you want!

So does having a hot girlfriend help a candidate's cause in this list Sifter

No extra weight in the ranks, but I think I might try and feature some more in future posts


Coming up...got another Pakistani bowler, followed by a gaggle of Aussie batsmen.