West Indies Tour of England - May to June 2012

sifter132

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You know I'm in a different camp here. I'd love to see WI get their best possible XI on the field.

But I also HATE guys swanning into squads just when it suits them, so I'd honestly just get all the IPL guys together, ask them what formats they want to be available for, and tell them to answer carefully because if in future they choose IPL over one of the formats they nominate, then they're out - finished with WI cricket. Guys like Gayle, Pollard and Bravo, and now Narine would have already made stacks of cash in the IPL - they don't need to KEEP being greedy.

Now of course the WICB has their problems too, trying to overly punish guys like Gayle. I just think there should be a clear selection policy in place, get the players to state their position and lets move on because I'm sick of hearing about it.
 

6ry4nj

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Guys like Gayle, Pollard and Bravo, and now Narine would have already made stacks of cash in the IPL - they don't need to KEEP being greedy.
They've won the equiv of three days' all-you-can-scrounge in a gold mine. No-one quits after two! :p

That said, I totally agree, and in fact would make it illegal to choose domestic over country (although I might have been exaggerating when I talked - elsewhere - about treason and capital punishment).
 

Owzat

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I still feel England have missed a big opportunity to give other players a go. Now they're talking about Anderson being rested for all of ONE Test, unless they back that up with him not playing in say the ODIs then what have they exactly achieved?

And when they don't rest big name primadonnas then those that do get a chance like Johnny "Bravo" Bairstow get dumped in the number six slot and are more likely to fail.

art animasi: Johnny Bravo season 3


IPL definitely needs putting in its place, a governing body needs to either make it so players called up by their country have to tour or make a deal with their board. Or perhaps impose sanctions on those players who don't abide by rules, the whole cricket world ban them from playing so IPL is the only place they can play.

English county cricket have a system in place to accommodate overseas players and their touring schedule, the IPL should too. It's not as if there are huge numbers of IPL teams and they might run out of players. They barely dip into a large English resource, and when they do I've caught clips on ITV4 where the English are barely used.
 

Haarithan

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Just verified, and thank god - even an abandoned game would mean England remain #1 with a point's lead over South Africa.
 

sifter132

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NSW
^The bigger they are, the harder they fall :rolleyes Whatever the rankings, the Eng-SA series should be a cracker.

Anyone think we'll see both captains declare their 1st innings at 0/0 to get a game?? :p
 

Owzat

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declare their 1st innings at 0/0 to get a game?? :p

I think the ICC should decree any Test that loses the first two days to rain should play two ODIs instead. But they won't because the'd have to refund the middle day's tickets and who'd want cricket and the fans to win over ???? and $$$$$..................?

England and South Africa under Hansie 'll fix it' Cronje did play out such a match in 2000, funnily enough that series was 2-0 to the home side and England won it.

HowSTAT! Match Scorecard

SAF 248/8d (72.0 overs)
Cullinan 46, Klusener 61no

ENG 251/8w (75.1 overs)
Stewart 73, Vaughan 69
Pollock 3/53, Hayward 3/61

England won by two wickets.

Shame England took more overs to reach their target, would have been fairer to have the same number of overs. After 72.0 overs England were 234/5 so added 17 in 3.1 overs, the end of the Stewart-Vaughan 126 run partnership came at 228/5 after 69.3 overs. I'd much rather they played a limited overs, however many per side, match.

The organisers may not agree to it, back then there was less hoo ha over $$$$, they won't want to lose a day's play if say windies bat first and collapse or vice versa. Don't forget it's been RAIN that's stopped play for two days, there may be some help for the bowlers. That playing one innings a side might get a result might not matter to them so much in a dead rubber as getting in as much play as possible.
 

swacker

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Not sure I like this rotation stuff, but I am enjoying getting a gander at Finn and Onions this morning. Both have bowled pretty well I think and if Bell had not dropped a sitter they'd both have had quick wickets after lunch. If anything Onions has been the most impressive.
 

Epic

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Basically a 2nd string bowling attack and the result is the same, somethings just never change.
 

sifter132

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NSW
The organisers may not agree to it, back then there was less hoo ha over $$$$, they won't want to lose a day's play if say windies bat first and collapse or vice versa. Don't forget it's been RAIN that's stopped play for two days, there may be some help for the bowlers. That playing one innings a side might get a result might not matter to them so much in a dead rubber as getting in as much play as possible.

Captains could do it off their own bat I guess, agree to face the same number of overs (98 x 3 = 294 overs for match, making for 147 overs in total over their 2 innings). Then at the end, either the 4th innings team gets the total, or they declare their innings closed in the last over and admit defeat so that the game gets a winner.

It's a broader idea that has been floated before, having a limit on the number of overs in an innings to get batsmen playing more shots especially at the end. I heard one idea for 100 overs limit, I guess 120 would be more realistic for a Test match.
 

Owzat

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Captains could do it off their own bat I guess, agree to face the same number of overs (98 x 3 = 294 overs for match, making for 147 overs in total over their 2 innings). Then at the end, either the 4th innings team gets the total, or they declare their innings closed in the last over and admit defeat so that the game gets a winner.

It's a broader idea that has been floated before, having a limit on the number of overs in an innings to get batsmen playing more shots especially at the end. I heard one idea for 100 overs limit, I guess 120 would be more realistic for a Test match.

Problem is I can't see both sides using 147 overs so there'd be reluctance. Whether they can simply agree "off their own bat" I doubt or they might just decide to do it so they get their match fee and time off with no consideration for the organisers/crowd.

If England had held their catches, or dropped/rested Bell which I'd been advocating for a while now, then this match could be well into the England innings already.

You'd have to look in the rules to see whether there are any about agreeing to waive innings in internationals, domestic cricket no doubt, but there's no spectators or much money in the average county championship match. Also there may be considerations like how England in this instance could get a win that playing a full match they wouldn't, windies for starters might not want to lose and for seconds other teams wouldn't like the chances of one or t'other getting a result they themselves might not be able to agree with more stubborn sides.

The series situation makes it look like a good opportunity to play one innings aside, but if it were a series decider would it seem such, and should it be allowed? If one side were 1-0 up they wouldn't agree to it, so in my books if it isn't going to be agreed in all circumstances it shouldn't be agreed in any circumstances. If they called it a draw and played two one-dayers then fair enough.

Oh and FWIW I don't agree with contrived results in championship matches

It's a broader idea that has been floated before, having a limit on the number of overs in an innings to get batsmen playing more shots especially at the end. I heard one idea for 100 overs limit, I guess 120 would be more realistic for a Test match.

I've been an advocate of trialling/playing a one innings limited overs match of say 100 overs a side for a long time, getting on must be 20 years I reckon. Have the tactical nuances of having bowling allocations of 20 overs maximum so you have to decide on five bowlers or say play four and gamble that the fifth bowler allocation isn't needed (if you bowl the opposition out inside say 60-70 overs), or you get away with a part-timer, and the balance of batting. The tactics in-game would be fascinating, not knowing if you will get to the full 100 overs so it would be a question of pacing it right with the aim early on to survive and then looking how much you can accelerate without the last 10 overs being close like they are in limited overs.

And even if you got bowled out for say 200-250 you'd still be in with a shout, you can use your best 2-3 bowlers early and say 40-50 of their overs first. I think it would be even more tactically fascinating in the subcontinent, or damper conditions in England. With pitches only needing to last 2-3 days you could get much better matches, even pitches taking spin on the first day. It'll be a sad day if muppets who would do away with longer versions of the game ever got their way, there's tactics in 50 over games but it's too short, there's little scope for tactics in bash bash bash 20 overs games, no time to rebuild and it favours certain types of bowlers too much. IPL is too repetitive for words, even 50 overs can be too much bash bash.

The advantage to 100 overs is sides could see a decent batting surface and push on early yet have to dig in to bat out their overs later on if they went from say 50/1 off 15 overs to 230/4 off 45 overs, to 260/7 off 55 overs.





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To get a result from here will be very difficult, England or more precisely Bell have dropped too many chances to get into the windies early and I doubt the windies can knock over England quickly twice.

Best hope England have is that they get two full days cricket, finish windies off quickly and get maybe 150-200 in front by lunch tomorrow and hope for the best.

For windies I'd say they need to get at England early this morning, even consider declaring overnight, and hope to knock them over for 150-200. They have the harder task batting first as they have to set targets, that is without any realistic hope of enforcing the follow on so to win they'll likely have to bat twice. England could bat once and a bit, depends how it goes with the respective bowlers and batsmen.
 
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