What the hell has happened to Scottish Cricket?

[karolkarol]

I would say that about 10 years ago Scotland and Ireland were probably on an equal footing as regards quality. Both have similar domestic setups so theoretically should produce players of similar(ish) standards so why have Ireland produced a number of players good enough to be in and around English counties but Scotland not so?

Are there fundamental problems within Scottish cricket stifling the development of players or other reasons I am not seeing?

 

[Gone4aDuck]

Just one of those things. The same could be said of the west indies.
I would imagine the budget of the Scottish team for development would be very low indeed, so it's hard for talent to bloom. You don't get better at the piano by playing on the plastic one you got for your 4th birthday!

 

[barmyarmy]

The university structure is quite strong (benefiting from English players) and certainly here in Edinburgh with 9 divisions of domestic cricket it doesn't feel like participation is the issue. Hard to blame the weather either. We had 3/4 of our games rained off in 2012 but 2013 was great.
I suspect that other sides have made advances while we've stagnated. There are some promising young players in the side like Matt Machan though and we've yet to see what Colly can do as a coach.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

stagnation is what I'd call it too. though some worrying recent results are undermining that (losing to hong kong is not good) I don't feel we've gone backwards too much but we've just not gone forwards. clearly ireland are producing players way beyond what we can only dream of right now.

 

[karolkarol]

As Scotland (and the Netherlands) have stagnated a few other associates have seemingly improved dramatically, namely UAE, Afghanistan and even Nepal.

Hopefully Colly can turn things round but it's hard to be optimistic with a team half full of 2nd generation Scottish county journeymen and little movement of Scottish youngsters into the English professional game.

 

[barmyarmy]

I guess 10/15 years ago we had Blain, Hamilton and Brown holding down places in English county sides. Now very few if any.

 

[Aislabie]

Things are looking pretty bright talent-wise if the Scots can get a team spirit going.
Coetzer, MacLeod, Machan, Berrington, Mommsen, Murphy, Haq, Wardlaw - they form the nucleus of a very solid side indeed.

The biggest problem in Scotland is the club structure - with 20 or so top-level clubs, it means that any national player who goes back and plays for his club is an all-rounder. Somehow, the club structure needs to be condensed right down.

My one thought would be a national two-day competition held over the course of the season amongst four top franchises. I'd adapt the playing conditions thus:

Minumum 110 overs per day, maximum 60 overs per innings, maximum 15 overs per bowler, minimum four fielders inside the circle.

This would give the players the opportunity to hone skills that are required in all three formats - from negotiating a new ball on a cloudy morning to hitting out in the final innings with as few as 40 overs to chase down a target. It's far from ideal, but it works within the constraints of the schedule, and if played at the weekends would mean that players could avoid having to take much if any time off work.

I'd also go with four moderately nondescript franchises, something like:

Bravehearts(The Grange, Edinburgh)
Caledonians (Mannofield Park, Aberdeen)
Highlanders (Cumbusdoon, Ayr)
Reivers (Titwood, Glasgow)

There are more than enough players to fill four teams, but I simply can't face making such a big effort as to write them all out right now.

And at the end of the day, these things do sometimes just happen. Blain, Nel, Brown, Hamilton, Lockhart, McCallum, Wright, Watson - these players don't get replaced overnight

 

[barmyarmy]

Why are the Highlanders playing in Ayr?

The dreadful names aside I basically agree with the idea that 4 or 5 franchises is a good idea.

 

[Owzat]

This would give the players the opportunity to hone skills that are required in all three formats - from negotiating a new ball on a cloudy morning to hitting out in the final innings with as few as 40 overs to chase down a target. It's far from ideal

Minumum 110 overs per day, maximum 60 overs per innings, maximum 15 overs per bowler, minimum four fielders inside the circle.

I doubt you can "hone skills" for a Test match batting a maximum of 60 overs per innings, you need to build a big innings and all batting 60 overs per innings will do is "hone skills" for a ODI at best.

Sides won't bat at 3-4 runs per over when they're trying to get as big a target as possible unless there are no constraints on overs/time, or unless there is a chance they be bowled out very short of their overs.


I'd advocate a 100 overs per side, one innings match, with limited overs restrictions such as 20 overs max per bowler and some fielding restrictions but not proportionate to ODIs. In fact I might suggest a limit to 17-18 overs per bowler as you could bowl sides out inside 80 overs quite easily.

What 100 overs per side would do, and I advocate it not just here but I think England and other countries might benefit from it, is prepare a side for batting a fixed number of overs, acceleration at the end, having to include a fifth bowler option and the tactics involved there and those in both Tests (batting for a long period, building an innings) and in ODIs (utilising bowlers, taking wickets vs keeping runs down, accelerating the innings and making use of wickets in hand)

Even if not 100 overs and one innings, I'd go with a fair bit more than 60 overs which used to be the number of overs in ODIs/World Cups.

Also, with so few overs you'd find more bashing of bowlers which won't "hone" the skills the bowlers would need for other formats. If you're only talking four teams you could afford to play two formats, and one should be 50 overs so having the other 60 overs, even if over two innings, wouldn't make a lot of sense

 

[Aislabie]

Why are the Highlanders playing in Ayr?

The dreadful names aside I basically agree with the idea that 4 or 5 franchises is a good idea.

Basically because it was late - my apologies

I doubt you can "hone skills" for a Test match batting a maximum of 60 overs per innings, you need to build a big innings and all batting 60 overs per innings will do is "hone skills" for a ODI at best.

Sides won't bat at 3-4 runs per over when they're trying to get as big a target as possible unless there are no constraints on overs/time, or unless there is a chance they be bowled out very short of their overs.


I'd advocate a 100 overs per side, one innings match, with limited overs restrictions such as 20 overs max per bowler and some fielding restrictions but not proportionate to ODIs. In fact I might suggest a limit to 17-18 overs per bowler as you could bowl sides out inside 80 overs quite easily.

What 100 overs per side would do, and I advocate it not just here but I think England and other countries might benefit from it, is prepare a side for batting a fixed number of overs, acceleration at the end, having to include a fifth bowler option and the tactics involved there and those in both Tests (batting for a long period, building an innings) and in ODIs (utilising bowlers, taking wickets vs keeping runs down, accelerating the innings and making use of wickets in hand)

Even if not 100 overs and one innings, I'd go with a fair bit more than 60 overs which used to be the number of overs in ODIs/World Cups.

Also, with so few overs you'd find more bashing of bowlers which won't "hone" the skills the bowlers would need for other formats. If you're only talking four teams you could afford to play two formats, and one should be 50 overs so having the other 60 overs, even if over two innings, wouldn't make a lot of sense

Yes, it's easy to look at it and say "You need this, and that, and that" but you have to work within the Cricket Scotland budget. The best they could offer with financial security would be the format I suggested.

And a green seamer and a new red ball would hone the skills fairly well, in my eyes. It's easy to call for a 100-over game, but the way Scotland have to progress first is in T20 and ODI cricket - so the format caters for that.

 

[barmyarmy]

Basically because it was late - my apologies

Call them the Tam o Shanters

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And a green seamer and a new red ball would hone the skills fairly well, in my eyes. It's easy to call for a 100-over game, but the way Scotland have to progress first is in T20 and ODI cricket - so the format caters for that.

Conditions in Scotland are also a factor. Even with the few covered pitches around most wickets are still green, seam massively for average bowlers and don't really take spin.
I remember the first time I played against Cheeky at Carlton and I was giving it some chat about how there's no point trying to spin it in Scotland. Then he bowled me...

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

I remember the first time I played against Cheeky at Carlton and I was giving it some chat about how there's no point trying to spin it in Scotland. Then he bowled me...

I've yet to hear an anecdote involving you playing cricket that doesn't end this way.

 

[barmyarmy]

There are a few that end with me getting caught.