Would Shakib Al Hasan make a team other than Bangladesh?

[Kabooka]

IMO Shakib al hasan is the best player from the Bangladeshi side. He is a talented spinner and a decent batsman...but still he would not make it to any International team apart from BD and Zim. many of you may argue that he has a decent record...but then if looked carefully most of the minnow nation cricketers (even the associate nations, specially the bowlers) have decent records. The main reason is that they play maximum cricket amongst themselves. The biggest problem with Shakib is the same one that is with the whole of BD team and that is that, they do not tour good teams. Beating a second string Windies team is good and whitewashing the kiwis even better for the Bangladeshis but i doubt if they could repeat the same feats when playing against the same teams (full strength) away from home. Heck IMO of BD were to tour Kiwis now most probably they will end up being whitewashed. God knows what will happen to them if they tour Australia and SA. Players like Shakib have good records only because they have been playing at home and against comparatively weaker oppositions. A true test of a good player is when he is made to play in alien conditions. Im dead sure shakib would end up a rattled batsman from the quick fast bowling presented to him by the likes of morkel and steyn or lee and company if he were to play in SA or Australia. His spin would be hit all over the park in those conditions. Most of the BD players would meet the same fate. Most of the BD players show glimpses of talent but consistency against good teams is what will truly make them a good team (something which might take a good 10-15 years IMO). If only the overall averages would be taken into account then Batsmen like Jayasuriya would be considered pedestrian given his average in ODI's, but we all know that what a destroyer he was. Hence i totally agree with Lassana, that Shakib certainly does not even deserve to be amongst the top allrounders in the world. A simple eg. would be that Yuvraj Singh who is a part time spinner for India, ended up being the most successful Left arm spinner in the recently concluded World Cup, whereas the so called former No.1 all rounder Shakib al hasan, who is considered more mainstream ended with a comparatively much poorer wicket haul. There are many first class spinners specially in India, Pak and SL who are better than Shakib and unfortunately may never come into the limelight. Id rather see them playing for NZ and England rather than Shakib. I will also agree with LD that Ireland would probably end up a better team than BD.They have played much lesser cricket than BD and were still impressive in the WC. IMO they will play much better than BD out of the sub continent. If BD were to tour Ireland, most provably they will end up on the loosing side. Also why only Bowler batsmen are considered allrounders. Keepers who can bat are equally important. Players like Sanga, AB and Dhoni are absolutely gems for their teams. These are the guys who can give Watson a run for his No.1 rank.

 

[1iram1]

Players like Sanga, AB and Dhoni are absolutely gems for their teams. These are the guys who can give Watson a run for his No.1 rank.

Shakib played well against England in Bangladesh's tour of England last year. I think that was their last away series.

 

[Brook]

IMO Shakib al hasan is the best player from the Bangladeshi side. He is a talented spinner and a decent batsman...but still he would not make it to any International team apart from BD and Zim. many of you may argue that he has a decent record...but then if looked carefully most of the minnow nation cricketers (even the associate nations, specially the bowlers) have decent records. The main reason is that they play maximum cricket amongst themselves.

Actually he has a good record against the top teams as well

The biggest problem with Shakib is the same one that is with the whole of BD team and that is that, they do not tour good teams. Beating a second string Windies team is good and whitewashing the kiwis even better for the Bangladeshis but i doubt if they could repeat the same feats when playing against the same teams (full strength) away from home.

Bangladesh's strength has nothing to do with how good Shakib is

Heck IMO of BD were to tour Kiwis now most probably they will end up being whitewashed. God knows what will happen to them if they tour Australia and SA. Players like Shakib have good records only because they have been playing at home and against comparatively weaker oppositions. A true test of a good player is when he is made to play in alien conditions. Im dead sure shakib would end up a rattled batsman from the quick fast bowling presented to him by the likes of morkel and steyn or lee and company if he were to play in SA or Australia. His spin would be hit all over the park in those conditions. Most of the BD players would meet the same fate. Most of the BD players show glimpses of talent but consistency against good teams is what will truly make them a good team (something which might take a good 10-15 years IMO). If only the overall averages would be taken into account then Batsmen like Jayasuriya would be considered pedestrian given his average in ODI's, but we all know that what a destroyer he was. Hence i totally agree with Lassana, that Shakib certainly does not even deserve to be amongst the top allrounders in the world. A simple eg. would be that Yuvraj Singh who is a part time spinner for India, ended up being the most successful Left arm spinner in the recently concluded World Cup, whereas the so called former No.1 all rounder Shakib al hasan, who is considered more mainstream ended with a comparatively much poorer wicket haul.

Any bowler needs some support from the rest of the attack. Bangladesh's is horrible

There are many first class spinners specially in India, Pak and SL who are better than Shakib and unfortunately may never come into the limelight. Id rather see them playing for NZ and England rather than Shakib. I will also agree with LD that Ireland would probably end up a better team than BD.They have played much lesser cricket than BD and were still impressive in the WC. IMO they will play much better than BD out of the sub continent. If BD were to tour Ireland, most provably they will end up on the loosing side.

Unlikely, seeing as this has already happened

Also why only Bowler batsmen are considered allrounders. Keepers who can bat are equally important. Players like Sanga, AB and Dhoni are absolutely gems for their teams. These are the guys who can give Watson a run for his No.1 rank.

None of those 3 are all rounders. Keepers who bat are batsmen.

 

[Lassana Dias]

Hence i totally agree with Lassana, that Shakib certainly does not even deserve to be amongst the top allrounders in the world. A simple eg. would be that Yuvraj Singh who is a part time spinner for India, ended up being the most successful Left arm spinner in the recently concluded World Cup, whereas the so called former No.1 all rounder Shakib al hasan, who is considered more mainstream ended with a comparatively much poorer wicket haul. There are many first class spinners specially in India, Pak and SL who are better than Shakib and unfortunately may never come into the limelight. Id rather see them playing for NZ and England rather than Shakib. I will also agree with LD that Ireland would probably end up a better team than BD.They have played much lesser cricket than BD and were still impressive in the WC. IMO they will play much better than BD out of the sub continent. If BD were to tour Ireland, most provably they will end up on the loosing side. Also why only Bowler batsmen are considered allrounders. Keepers who can bat are equally important. Players like Sanga, AB and Dhoni are absolutely gems for their teams. These are the guys who can give Watson a run for his No.1 rank.

thank you mate, NOT for agreeing with me but proving something I was also trying to prove, (there are levels of competitive cricket, just because a player have a better bowling average playing at tier B in a first class season, dose not mean he is better then a bowler who have a slightly higher average in tier A)

He is not a bad player Shakib, for me he is the best BD player ever to play, but nothing ore then that !!!! (for now)

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None of those 3 are all rounders. Keepers who bat are batsmen.

In what book it says, you need to be a bowler to become an all-rounder. MY definition of an all-rounder is a player who is good at more then one ability in the game.

(Don’t start jumping up and down now, this is only my definition, you can disagree)

 

[6ry4nj]

but still he would not make it to any International team apart from BD and Zim.

So which one of Yardy, Tredwell and Wright are you saying is better than him? One of these three is always in the England ODI side at present - which one of them would (hypothetically) keep Shakib out?

many of you may argue that he has a decent record...but then if looked carefully most of the minnow nation cricketers (even the associate nations, specially the bowlers) have decent records. The main reason is that they play maximum cricket amongst themselves.

Have you read the thread? This argument has been disproved over and over again.

The biggest problem with Shakib is the same one that is with the whole of BD team and that is that, they do not tour good teams. Beating a second string Windies team is good and whitewashing the kiwis even better for the Bangladeshis but i doubt if they could repeat the same feats when playing against the same teams (full strength) away from home.

This is a new point which may have merit. Do you have any stats to back it up? Certainly Australia seem to play in Bangladesh an awful lot imo.

Heck IMO of BD were to tour Kiwis now most probably they will end up being whitewashed. God knows what will happen to them if they tour Australia and SA. Im dead sure shakib would end up a rattled batsman from the quick fast bowling presented to him by the likes of morkel and steyn or lee and company if he were to play in SA or Australia. His spin would be hit all over the park in those conditions.

Here we have more of the wishful thinking and conjecture being passed off as debate. Leave the what-ifs and maybes in the story forum.

If only the overall averages would be taken into account then Batsmen like Jayasuriya would be considered pedestrian given his average in ODI's, but we all know that what a destroyer he was. Hence i totally agree with Lassana, that Shakib certainly does not even deserve to be amongst the top allrounders in the world.

And if you ignore even more of the facts you can probably prove that Tredwell (or Jadeja) ought to be there instead.

Who do you suggest is keeping him out of the list?

A simple eg. would be that Yuvraj Singh who is a part time spinner for India, ended up being the most successful Left arm spinner in the recently concluded World Cup, whereas the so called former No.1 all rounder Shakib al hasan, who is considered more mainstream ended with a comparatively much poorer wicket haul.

No you can't compare one freakishly good series from Yuvraj (in insanely favourable conditions) with Shakib's career performance. Yuvraj is one player you could argue doesn't deserve to be in an international team (other than when in supernatural form)

 

[Brook]

In what book it says, you need to be a bowler to become an all-rounder. MY definition of an all-rounder is a player who is good at more then one ability in the game.

(Don?t start jumping up and down now, this is only my definition, you can disagree)

By that definition every player is an all-rounder because most modern players are good at at least two of fielding, batting and bowling.

 

[Kabooka]

So which one of Yardy, Tredwell and Wright are you saying is better than him? One of these three is always in the England ODI side at present - which one of them would (hypothetically) keep Shakib out?

Imagine IF England were to tour SA or Australia or heck even India with Shakib in their side. Proteas and Aussie bowlers would scare him outta the ground with pace and bounce and Indian batsmen would thrash him out of the field. Honestly IMO those three might prove more useful in those conditions against those oppositions.

Have you read the thread? This argument has been disproved over and over again.

Im saying it again that Shakib does not have a good AWAY record against GOOD teams.

This is a new point which may have merit. Do you have any stats to back it up? Certainly Australia seem to play in Bangladesh an awful lot imo.

When was the last time Shakib played a good match against any of India, SA, AUS, PAK, SL in their respective countries? (barring the WC) You find me the stats and prove me wrong bro.

And if you ignore even more of the facts you can probably prove that Tredwell (or Jadeja) ought to be there instead.

Those two are rubbish, specially Jadeja. My pointing of the averages was in reply to this

I think you are being a bit over the top lassana? are you saying england, south africa, the west indies and australia would not have welcomed a spinner who has a bowling average under 30 and a batting one of 35?

Averages dont mean squat if your opposition is not good. Sanath Jayasuriya had a poorer average than Shakib in both bowling and batting, but we all know that pretty much all bowlers shat bricks at the sight of him and he was not too shabby with the bowl either.

No you can't compare one freakishly good series from Yuvraj (in insanely favourable conditions) with Shakib's career performance. Yuvraj is one player you could argue doesn't deserve to be in an international team (other than when in supernatural form)

Weren't the conditions favorable for Shakib? He was playing at home too, in the sub continent. And as far as Yuvi's presence in the team goes, his being man of the series more than answers that question.

 

[Near]

Btw, the Proteas and Aussie pace attacks won't kill Shakib. He's playing with the English domestic fasties everyday now and as well some overseas ones. We are talking about Shakib Al Hasan not Junaid Siddique or Raqibul hasan you know. And why are we even discussing this now? This is all upto a person's opinion. Some might say Yuvraj is a better bowler than Shakib some might say Dhoni is a better bowler than Shakib but its really upto the person who's making the comparisons. This is a topic that won't go anywhere

 

[Chewie]

Friend, you are a staff member as well, when did you bother to do anything about when people started insulting me personally, you just did the same !!

I would like to object to this and say I have not insulted you at all in this thread; instead I have just been publishing statistics and arguing against your assertion that Shakib would not make any other side.

If you feel others have been insulting you, then use the post report button instead of complaining about it in this thread. I personally haven't seen anything over the top, but I am not the one being targeted so you may see things differently.

 

[Howsie]

When was the last time Shakib played a good match against any of India, SA, AUS, PAK, SL in their respective countries? (barring the WC) You find me the stats and prove me wrong bro.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

11 wickets @ 20 in South Africa and 8 wickets @ 34 in England, ain't bad going reallly.

 

[Lassana Dias]

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

11 wickets @ 20 in South Africa and 8 wickets @ 34 in England, ain't bad going reallly.

without taking one or two, honestly can you say, its a world class allrounders statistics, yes its NOT BAD, but thats not the point, the point is A) is he the best allrounder B) on he's record will he be selected for any other test team other then ZIM

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

When was the last time Shakib played a good match against any of India, SA, AUS, PAK, SL in their respective countries? (barring the WC) You find me the stats and prove me wrong bro.

love this one. how many parameters do you want to set?

firstly, using those parameters, he's played only 14 matches, and 12 of them were from 2008 or before. hardly relevant to his status as a good all-rounder now.

why not mention england? oh that's right because when he played there he was the stand out bowler in two matches.

anyway

4th ODI: Pakistan v Bangladesh at Multan, Apr 16, 2008 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

3rd ODI: Pakistan v Bangladesh at Lahore, Apr 13, 2008 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

1st ODI: South Africa v Bangladesh at Potchefstroom, Nov 7, 2008 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Near]

without taking one or two, honestly can you say, its a world class allrounders statistics, yes its NOT BAD, but thats not the point, the point is A) is he the best allrounder B) on he's record will he be selected for any other test team other then ZIM

As I said, this is all up to you on how you treat it. Like for me I count Shakib as a world-class all-rounder where as you count him as an average all-rounder. As Bangladesh is my home country I am of course biased and thus in my point of view it will always looks like that Shakib is a world-class all-rounder and that Shakib will make in any team. And as proof- We are talking about the current Shakib so why don't we take his IPL performances in account so how is he doing in IPL?

 

[Lassana Dias]

As I said, this is all up to you on how you treat it. Like for me I count Shakib as a world-class all-rounder where as you count him as an average all-rounder. As Bangladesh is my home country I am of course biased and thus in my point of view it will always looks like that Shakib is a world-class all-rounder and that Shakib will make in any team. And as proof- We are talking about the current Shakib so why don't we take his IPL performances in account so how is he doing in IPL?

Lets wait till IPL ends and reevaluate he?s stats with other all-rounders stats. Shell we ! ?. Long way to go

 

[cricgenius]

you guys are complaning shak isnt good against the G8 team...ok for your information shak has taken 5 for against every team he has played in test!!!! what more do you want?