ICC Champions Trophy 2009

Who Will Win The ICC Champions Trophy


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zMario, you make a lot of valid points without replying to my post. I see you have completely ignored the part about it not being the ATP who decided to cancel the Bangalore Open. Your whole original point was that Cricket Australia was being hypocritical by doing A and not B, but it seems that there is now no precedent that they should have followed when it came to touring Bangalore. Have you completely abandoned this point of argument, and the only one I was interested in, seeing that you haven't mentioned Australia touring India in your post?

As for all your sentiments about security in Pakistan and such, it may well be true, but it bears no pertinence to the topic or the current discussion.
 
Sohum, is it my fault that I can't find one, just one news article in the entire World Wide Web that blames the lack of sponsorship?

And Sohum, are you inclined to believe everything the media says? Have the media ever been wrong? I believe so. The only reason that Pakistan looks dangerous is because we're in the news only for such incidents (usually). Its the same reason Zimbabwes always in the news (Mugabe), its the same reason that the African countries are in the news (hunger / poverty), its the same reason that the animals are in the news (extinction)

There's really nothing else to say on the matter. And let me ask you this, would you say a professional organization who has decided two months beforehand (May-June 2008) that they will not tour Pakistan (as stated by an ICC official and confirmed by a PCB official) then surely theres something wrong.

Don't you think that some people have already closed and set their mind? I live in Pakistan sohum, you don't. I don't think you have the qualification to judge whether a country is safe or not, with Karachi Xpress recently going to Pakistan and sharing the same sentiments as myself, and many other Pakistani users having traveled to Pakistan this summer and throughout the year stating that it is safe to play cricket.

I do not say that Pakistan is the safest country. But the fact that you're more likely to get *****, assaulted, or killed in South Africa than dieing in an isolated in the middle of nowhere bomb blast in Pakistan says a lot.

I will always maintain that Pakistan is safe enough to play cricket, until a very major incident occurs. Politics should not mix with sport, especially in a country like Pakistan, where politicians are as corrupt as they get.
And how would you feel if that incident occurred when the cricketers were there? Stating the obvious to say that a place is safe until until it isn't, and when it isn't, if someone dies, will it have been worth the risk to play a cricket tournament, one which isn't even the World Cup?
 
I will always maintain that Pakistan is safe enough to play cricket, until a very major incident occurs. Politics should not mix with sport, especially in a country like Pakistan, where politicians are as corrupt as they get.

Is the attempted assasination of Pakistans PM big enough for you to finally realise that this is a major incedent and therefore sport shouldn't be played when there is a threat to people.
 
zMario, you make a lot of valid points without replying to my post. I see you have completely ignored the part about it not being the ATP who decided to cancel the Bangalore Open. Your whole original point was that Cricket Australia was being hypocritical by doing A and not B, but it seems that there is now no precedent that they should have followed when it came to touring Bangalore. Have you completely abandoned this point of argument, and the only one I was interested in, seeing that you haven't mentioned Australia touring India in your post?

As for all your sentiments about security in Pakistan and such, it may well be true, but it bears no pertinence to the topic or the current discussion.

Please read the post :) I have already stated that is ONE article which supports your claim.

Please show me an Australian newspaper, which I think we are all inclined to believe the CA are likely to read rather than one random article search on Google.

You are yet to clearly explain why the CA decided to cancel the tour to Pakistan 2 months beforehand. The CA based their security report on a 2 day stay. And guess what the analysis was? Cricket is a western sport, and therefore may be targetted. What a load of crap. Simple as that.

Now, you have the other security company, who stays in Pakistan for months, and speaks to the police, and other important dignitories.


And how would you feel if that incident occurred when the cricketers were there? Stating the obvious to say that a place is safe until until it isn't, and when it isn't, if someone dies, will it have been worth the risk to play a cricket tournament, one which isn't even the World Cup?

What are you talking about? I'm talking about the incident where the CA canceled their tour of Pakistan (ICC Champions Trophy) 2 months beforehand based on a two day stay

And what sort of an excuse is "cricket is a western sport and therefore may be targetted"

This guy is an idiot. Simple as that. Either say that he was not in the country long enough to make an appropriate decision, or give the benefit of the doubt and say that as far as he has determined, Pakistan is safe.

Is the attempted assasination of Pakistans PM big enough for you to finally realise that this is a major incedent and therefore sport shouldn't be played when there is a threat to people.

First, learn to spell ;) It helps especially for those whose English is not a first language in determining exactly what you are saying (and saves me a trip to dictionary.com to see if "incedent" is actually another word)

Secondly, tell me this. The Tamil Tigers and the government have been fighting for how long in Sri Lanka? A very long time. Do cricket tours to Sri Lanka continue? Of course, life goes on.

Thirdly, I know exactly where the shots were fired, seeing as I live in the city. And let me tell you this, from that hill, there is absolutely no way that a bullet could have hit a person sitting in the seat properly. It is at such an angle, it is nearly impossible. But thats not the point at all - read this:

Taliban said:
Pakistani Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan claimed responsibility, telling Agence France Press, "We will continue such attacks on government officials and installations."

Government officials and installations. How is this situation different from the one in Sri Lanka? Are cricketers government officials? Prehaps Symonds should become one, he could become CA's next Dummy Security Analyst - I'm sure that he will require a job after deciding to put his fishing ahead of his team.
 
Please read the post :) I have already stated that is ONE article which supports your claim.

Please show me an Australian newspaper, which I think we are all inclined to believe the CA are likely to read rather than one random article search on Google.
The article was published by AFP which should get rid of your suggestions that it is an invalid source of information. Secondly, it may well be the tennis authority of India just trying to get something back by claiming it was the lack of sponsors that caused the cancellation, but the thing that is NOT up for debate is that it was the organizers who cancelled the tournament, not the ATP.

Proof:
The ATP Board can confirm that it has, regrettably, accepted a petition from the Bangalore Open to suspend the 2008 event due to the local promoter's security concerns," ATP said in a statement.
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-...spended-due-to-security-concerns--ATP/353582/

The Bangalore Open scheduled from Sept. 29 has been cancelled after organisers raised security concerns, the ATP said.
http://in.reuters.com/article/worldOfSport/idINIndia-35182320080826

"The ATP can confirm that it has accepted a petition to suspend the 2008 event," an ATP spokesman said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/7581714.stm

There are many such articles that prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was not the ATP who acted, but the ATP who accepted a petition to cancel the tournament. The petition was brought to them by the local organizers of the tournament. What their motives were can be questioned, although they may have been charading it as security concerns.

You are yet to clearly explain why the CA decided to cancel the tour to Pakistan 2 months beforehand. The CA based their security report on a 2 day stay. And guess what the analysis was? Cricket is a western sport, and therefore may be targetted. What a load of crap. Simple as that.
In case you didn't read or understand my post, I don't care about this argument. The only reason I am sustaining this somewhat OT discussion in this thread is to prove that your whole comparison of CA's vs ATP's when it comes to Bangalore is wrong. Notice that does not have the word Pakistan in it.
 
First, learn to spell ;) It helps especially for those whose English is not a first language in determining exactly what you are saying (and saves me a trip to dictionary.com to see if "incedent" is actually another word)

Why don't you first learn to be not so ignorant before you start to question my spelling after I after I misspelt something.

A major INCIDENT such as this is obviously enough to raise sercurity fears, If someone of his importance is at risk then a bunch of cricketers are at risk aswell.
 
The article was published by AFP which should get rid of your suggestions that it is an invalid source of information. Secondly, it may well be the tennis authority of India just trying to get something back by claiming it was the lack of sponsors that caused the cancellation, but the thing that is NOT up for debate is that it was the organizers who cancelled the tournament, not the ATP.

Proof:

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-...spended-due-to-security-concerns--ATP/353582/


http://in.reuters.com/article/worldOfSport/idINIndia-35182320080826


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/7581714.stm

There are many such articles that prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was not the ATP who acted, but the ATP who accepted a petition to cancel the tournament. The petition was brought to them by the local organizers of the tournament. What their motives were can be questioned, although they may have been charading it as security concerns.


In case you didn't read or understand my post, I don't care about this argument. The only reason I am sustaining this somewhat OT discussion in this thread is to prove that your whole comparison of CA's vs ATP's when it comes to Bangalore is wrong. Notice that does not have the word Pakistan in it.
So the ATP had a part to play in this - they agreed to the cancellation, therefore agreeing to the fact that Bangalore was not safe. Is this not correct? I believe Bangalore is safe for Cricket just as Pakistan is safe for cricket, however, did the ATP not accept their analysis that Bangalore was not safe?

Their motives we can say very little about, but the ATP is a professional organization, and if they agreed, they accepted that Bangalore is unsafe. Shot yourself in the foot there, didn't you.

Themer, you are yet to reply as to why Sri Lanka is safe for cricket, while Pakistan isn't,
 
Themer, you are yet to reply as to why Sri Lanka is safe for cricket, while Pakistan isn't,

I am yet to see where I've said that its safe there. I have concerns for all places where there is a threat. Pakistan currently is slightly worse than Sri Lanka but I would be fine touring in Sri Lanka as long as there is sufficent safety measures something that Pakistan can currently not give.
 
I am yet to see where I've said that its safe there. I have concerns for all places where there is a threat. Pakistan currently is slightly worse than Sri Lanka but I would be fine touring in Sri Lanka as long as there is sufficent safety measures something that Pakistan can currently not give.
This has to be a ridiculous post.

You are saying that the security by Sri Lanka is better than Pakistan's?

Especially since you have not said or given any indication that you have been to EITHER of those countries, and I am one who lives in Pakistan.

Hmm.

You'd rather tour Sri Lanka than Pakistan? Take a look at this:

COLOMBO: President Mahinda Rajapakse's brother, who is also Sri Lanka's defense secretary, narrowly escaped when a suicide bomber targeted his vehicle convoy Friday, officials here said.

In August, a former Pakistan high commissioner to Sri Lanka was targeted by a suicide bomber in a similar attack in the same area. He escaped unhurt, but seven people were killed in the explosion.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/01/news/lanka.php
 
So the ATP had a part to play in this - they agreed to the cancellation, therefore agreeing to the fact that Bangalore was not safe. Is this not correct? I believe Bangalore is safe for Cricket just as Pakistan is safe for cricket, however, did the ATP not accept their analysis that Bangalore was not safe?

Their motives we can say very little about, but the ATP is a professional organization, and if they agreed, they accepted that Bangalore is unsafe. Shot yourself in the foot there, didn't you.
Nope, this is just you trying to hang on to minor shreds of your argument. Let me put it simply: if no one is going to organize the tournament, does the ATP really have an option whether or not to hold the tournament there?

If India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh were to say a month before the World Cup that they don't want to host it, there's nothing the ICC could do to make them play there.

If you read the articles I linked, you will find that many of them show the ATP to be disappointed that the tournament couldn't be held, but this disappointment is not shown to be against the terrorism, but against the petition brought by the organizing company.

sohummisra added 2 Minutes and 27 Seconds later...

This has to be a ridiculous post.

You are saying that the security by Sri Lanka is better than Pakistan's?

Especially since you have not said or given any indication that you have been to EITHER of those countries, and I am one who lives in Pakistan.

Hmm.

You'd rather tour Sri Lanka than Pakistan? Take a look at this:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/01/news/lanka.php
Maybe if you showed articles that weren't almost 2 years old, your point would be taken somewhat seriously.

The fact is that the same media that portray Pakistan as being dangerous have portrayed India and Sri Lanka and other countries to be less dangerous. They are in fact the only people with unbiased eyes. Whilst you live in Pakistan, you do not live in Sri Lanka or India and hence you can make no logical comparisons as to which place is safer than the other.
 
As I have some work to do today, I will say that I did live in Sri Lanka for a decent period of time - I will respond to everything else ASAP , but let me ask you this - didn't teams tour Sri Lanka 2 years ago?
 
As I have some work to do today, I will say that I did live in Sri Lanka for a decent period of time - I will respond to everything else ASAP , but let me ask you this - didn't teams tour Sri Lanka 2 years ago?
Let's look at the tours scheduled in Sri Lanka in the 2006 and 2006-07 seasons.

2006 Season
South Africa in Sri Lanka - played the Test series but pulled out of ODI tri-series due to security
India in Sri Lanka - ODI series cancelled due to weather... besides India has never had problems touring Sri Lanka/Pakistan/etc.

2006-07 Season
No international series' scheduled in Sri Lanka. Only "international" tour was Bangladesh A's tour of Sri Lanka.

Besides, your point is moot. When it comes to personal safety, you don't use a previously set precedent to decide whether to tour or not.
 
You've given us two attacks zMario a while back someone posted the list of recent attacks of any sort in Pakistan and it was a very long list. Its somewhere in this thread probably.

Themer added 2 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...

Especially since you have not said or given any indication that you have been to EITHER of those countries, and I am one who lives in Pakistan.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/01/news/lanka.php

Ive never been to Iraq but I can still tell you that security is poor, you don't necessarily have to have been somewhere to know how safe it is.

Also Im not likening Pakistans sercurity to Iraqs when I say that.
 
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You've given us two attacks zMario a while back someone posted the list of recent attacks of any sort in Pakistan and it was a very long list. Its somewhere in this thread probably.

Themer added 2 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...



Ive never been to Iraq but I can still tell you that security is poor, you don't necessarily have to have been somewhere to know how safe it is.

Also Im not likening Pakistans sercurity to Iraqs when I say that.
Themer

Would you trust an Iraqi who could tell you what life and the situation was there or would you trust media, who just report on the "bad" things?

Let's look at the tours scheduled in Sri Lanka in the 2006 and 2006-07 seasons.

2006 Season
South Africa in Sri Lanka - played the Test series but pulled out of ODI tri-series due to security
India in Sri Lanka - ODI series cancelled due to weather... besides India has never had problems touring Sri Lanka/Pakistan/etc.

2006-07 Season
No international series' scheduled in Sri Lanka. Only "international" tour was Bangladesh A's tour of Sri Lanka.

Besides, your point is moot. When it comes to personal safety, you don't use a previously set precedent to decide whether to tour or not.
Then Symonds, Cricket Australia's next Security Analyst can never come to Pakistan.

What do we care?

Although I'm thinking that its not security, but the fact that the players wanted a "rest"

SA is refusing to play in the Tri-Series, which would take place during the time the ICC Champions Trophy would have...

Interesting.
 

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