All-Time Test XIs

Whats with some people taking Barry Richards? Dude played 2 tests.


Just about everyone has Malcolm Marshall in their team, those cricinfo dudes better take him.
 
What's with this craze of everybody picking Hobbs anyway? Sure he's played many FC matches, but...

generally was considered the best batsman ever until bradman came along.


Mark, I submitted an almost identical team to you except gavaskar over hutton and Richards over Border. (I would have put imran at 8, but we're not given the option, I wonder if that will come into play. Imran was good enough to play as a best ever fast bowler but if they're only selecting one all-rounder then he'll be excluded.)
 
I was torn between Gavaskar and Hutton too.

I have to say that Richards over Border is the better pick, consider that to be in my team as well, but I'm not giving up Hutton :p
 
My Cricinfo World XI:

1 Greenidge
2 Gavaskar
3 Bradman
4 Tendulkar
5 Lara
6 Imran Khan
7 Knott
8 Wasim
9 Marshall
10 Warne
11 Murali

The combination is 2 openers, 3 middle order batters, 1 allrounder, 1 keeper, 4 bowlers (2 pace, 2 spin).

I was torn over Lara or Richards, but decided to go with Lara due to pure personal preference. Greenidge over Hobbs/Hutton because you need a destructive batsman to offset the steady Gavaskar at the other end. Was almost tempted to go with Sehwag in that position.

Knott/Gilchrist goes to Knott due to superior stumping skills and this team doesn't need any more batting really.

Marshall over Holding/Lillee because he has a superior record than Holding and Lillee is Australian. :spy
 
What's with this craze of everybody picking Hobbs anyway? Sure he's played many FC matches, but...

What?? Couple of reasons:
1) Qualitative reports of his greatness from many writers, witnesses and yes as mentioned, his reputation of being the best English batsmen ever and the best player until Bradman arrived. He's not some random guy people have fallen in love with after he's passed - he was 'kind of a big deal' to quote Ron Burgundy :)
2) Quantitative: the dude averaged 56. How many players can you find that started their careers before WW1 and even managed to average over 40? Well, I'll answer that for you...
Victor Trumper averaged 39 and he was apparently awesome, so what does 56 say about Hobbs? Some of the other big run getters around his era and their averages:
Frank Woolley - 36
Clem Hill - 39
Warrick Armstrong - 38
Charlie Macartney - 42
Aubrey Faulkner - 41

The only guys that even come close to him average-wise are guys who played a lot less Tests: Phil Mead (averaged 49 in 17 Tests), Stanley Jackson (49 in 20 Tests) and the great Ranjitsinjhi (45 in 15 Tests) and even then they can't get close to his 56.94. The dude was a machine: averaged over 50 home and away, over 50 against all 3 other nations and in all 3 countries he played in, he averaged over 50 in the 4th innings of Tests when they didn't cover the wickets, all this while opening the innings and facing the new ball.
 
Whats with some people taking Barry Richards? Dude played 2 tests.


Just about everyone has Malcolm Marshall in their team, those cricinfo dudes better take him.

Bradman rated him very very highly, said that he had played some of the best innings he had seen + during WSC Bradman felt that he was a better bat than Viv + that his technique was second to none. I only saw him play WSC and some Shield games and he was awesome, awesome like Lara, Tendulkar and Viv Richards at their best. Of course its all guesswork but I feel he would have been a contender for best after Bradman had he played a proper test career.
 
With that attack I would sub Sobers out for Imran Khan. Gives you a more lethal bowling attack with Akram-Marshall-Imran-Murali-Warne. And you don't really need Sobers at 6 if you've got Hobbs, Gavaskar, Bradman, Tendulkar, and Lara!

yeah I think you are right, I surely need a better allrounder and Imran should take his place or Kapil Dev.


mycricinfoxi.jpg


so this is my team for Cricinfo.

AkshayS added 13 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...

I don't know but it messed up my order.:p

AkshayS added 1 Minutes and 0 Seconds later...

will post again soon.
 
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Through Cricinfo I went:

Barry Richards
Sir Jack Hobbs
Sir Donald Bradman
George Headley
Sir Viv Richards
Sir Garfield Sobers
Alan Knott
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Malcolm Marshall
Glenn McGrath

Only tough selections were between Headley and Tendulkar and McGrath and Barnes. Other than that, it picked itself.

What's with this craze of everybody picking Hobbs anyway? Sure he's played many FC matches, but...

Seriously? I'm presuming you know nothing about Hobbs then. Not only did he amass a magnificent record, but there are talks from experts that saw him play at the time, that he had more talent than Bradman, just not the mental application, ruthlessness and determination to bat for so long. Hobbs was a master on sticky wickets, and had a far superior record to Bradman on them. He was superb technically, capable of taking attacks apart, brilliant on all surfaces, incredible hand-eye co-ordination and put together a ridiculous career record. Hobbs is without doubt the greatest opener of all-time for me.

As for Barry Richards, I can't believe we're going through this again. I've made it clear why I personally rate him so highly, and why others rate him so highly. He didn't play 2 Tests either, he played 4. Didn't have the longest Test career, but it's a World XI team on Cricinfo, not an All-Time Test XI, and for me there's no question that he's the 2nd greatest opening batsman of all-time. Here's a small piece I wrote about him for anyone that hasn't read it:

In the history of Test cricket weve been blessed with some incredible batsmen. From guys like Bradman, Headley and Hobbs to modern greats like Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting. One man that often gets ignored in lists of the great batsmen is the South African opener, Barry Richards. He could have gone down as one of the greatest opening batsmen of all-time, but due to the International ban on South African sport just after his Test debut, he was unable to make a real impact on Test cricket.

Barry Richards started playing cricket as a young lad in the streets of his home town, Durban. Richards has talked about his time playing street cricket as being the catalyst for him developing his superb level of skill. Richards often played with older boys, and said that once you got your chance to bat you had to make the most of it, as you could go a couple of weeks before getting another chance. After developing his basic skills on the streets of Durban, he went on to play Schools cricket, and was very successful. Richards played on a tour of England with the best players from all the schools in South Africa, and his team were dominant. They comprehensively beat every English School team they played, and according to Richards even gave some County 2nd XI sides a good run for their money.

Richards First Class career started in 1965, but it took him 2 seasons to really make his mark on FC cricket. In Richards 3rd season of South African Domestic cricket, he made 553 runs at a very good average of 50.27 with 1 hundred and 5 fifties. The season after that he managed to convert more of his fifties, making 4 hundreds in the 67/68 season. This caught the attention of County Cricket, leading him to go to England in 1968 to play FC cricket.

Richards had a good first year in England, making over 2000 runs in the 33 games he played that season, scoring 5 hundreds, including his first professional double hundred. Richards continued this superb form across the next 2 years, before making his Test debut in a series against Australia, in South Africa. The South African side that Richards found himself in is regarded as one of the greatest Test teams of all-time. The team included not only Richards, but superb players like Graeme Pollock, Mike Proctor, Peter Pollock, Eddie Barlow and many more great names.

Barry Richards somewhat failed in his first Test, making starts in both innings, with scores of 29 and 32, but he made sure he capitalised on his chance in the Test side in the 2nd match at Durban. On the first day of this Test Match, Richards played one of the most incredible innings ever seen in Test cricket. Richards put the Australian bowling attack to the sword and would have had a hundred before lunch, but sneaky tactics from Bill Lawry, and the run out of Ali Bacher scuppered those chances. Richards still managed to make it to 96* at Lunch, but it was what occurred after lunch that enthralled the Durban crowds most.

In the hour straight after lunch, Barry Richards and Graeme Pollock destroyed the Australian bowling attack. They made over 100 runs between them in that first hour, in what was a showcase of timing and power. There was no slogging on show though, it was all glorious strokeplay from 2 unsung geniuses in the history of this superb game we call Cricket. Richards eventually got out for 140, bowled by Freeman, but his impression on the world game was made.

Richards went on to score 1 more hundred in that series, and made a total of 508 runs at an average of 72.57. It was a glorious way to enter Test cricket, but his chances of going on to form a long Test career were ended when South Africa were removed from International Sport. The South African team of that era tried their hardest to get back into International cricket, agreeing to allow 2 non-whites to be part of the team on the condition that they were good enough, but the Government rejected the proposal, and South Africa and Barry Richards fate was sealed.

After the realisation that hed never play Test cricket sunk in, Richards decided to go and play First Class cricket around the world, playing in England, South Africa and Australia. In the period after his final Test, Barry Richards played First Class cricket for 12 years. In that time he made 19266 runs at a brilliant average of 51.37. In 1970 in Australia, in his prime, playing Sheffield Shield cricket, he averaged over 100, scoring 1536 runs in 10 games, with 6 hundreds. One of those hundreds, he turned into 356 from 381 balls, against a Western Australian side that included Lillee, McKenzie and Lock. What makes that triple hundred even more remarkable is the fact that he made 325 of those runs in 1 day. It would be incredible enough in the modern era, but back in the 70s, days used to consist of just 5 hours, with only an hour and a half for the first session, so to score over 300 in a day is testament to how good Richards really was.

Richards is also incredibly highly rated by his peers, and people that saw him bat throughout his career. Graeme Pollock rates Richards alongside Sobers as the 2 greatest players he's seen play, played with or played against. He is described by Mike Proctor as 'the perfect batsman' and was his choice as someone to bat for your life. Greg Chappell rates Richards as the most technically correct and complete batsman he's ever seen. Former South African Captain Ali Bacher rates him as one of the best players the worlds ever seen. The best summary of Barry Richards comes from Christopher Martin Jenkins who sums Barry Richards up perfectly. "It's the style more than the achievements with Barry Richards, and his ability to score runs on difficult tracks in difficult circumstances that put him way ahead of everyone around him"

That quote from Martin Jenkins is the perfect way to describe one of the finest Opening Batsmen weve ever seen. He was technically perfect, was capable of scoring runs on any track against any bowling attack and on his day was simply unstoppable. If only hed had the chance to play 70+ Test Matches, who knows what he would have achieved.

Here are Barry Richards FC Statistics also:


Code:
Season	 	  Matches    Inns Not Out	 Runs 	HS	Ave	100	50	Ct
1965	(England)	1	1	0	59	59  	59.00 	0	1	0	 
1965-66	(South Africa)	7	11	1	427	77  	42.70 	0	5	3	 
1966-67	(South Africa)	7	12	1	553	107  	50.27 	1	5	6	 
1967-68	(South Africa)	6	11	1	675	146  	67.50 	4	1	3	 
1968	(England)	33	55	5	2395	206  	47.90 	5	18	37	 
1968-69	(South Africa)	8	15	2	763	112*	58.69 	1	7	5	 
1969	(England)	20	31	6	1440	155  	57.60 	5	5	17	 
1969-70	(South Africa)	10	18	2	1172	169  	73.25 	6	3	9	 
1970	(England)	20	33	2	1667	153  	53.77 	3	12	15	 
1970-71	(Australia)	10	16	2	1538	356  	109.85 	6	3	10	 
1970-71	(South Africa)	1	2	0	207	140  	103.50 	1	1	0	 
1971	(England)	24	45	4	1938	141*	47.26 	2	17	34	 
1971-72	(South Africa)	8	15	1	1089	219  	77.78 	4	4	4	 
1972	(England)	19	33	1	1425	118  	44.53 	4	8	28	 
1972-73	(South Africa)	10	19	1	1247	197  	69.27 	5	5	9	 
1973	(England)	18	30	2	1452	240  	51.85 	5	4	35	 
1973-74	(South Africa)	12	18	2	1285	186*	80.31 	4	8	12	 
1974	(England)	19	27	4	1406	225*	61.13 	4	6	23	 
1974-75	(South Africa)	11	21	2	891	162  	46.89 	4	3	9	 
1975	(England)	19	32	5	1621	135*	60.03 	3	13	22	 
1975-76	(South Africa)	11	21	4	1051	159  	61.82 	3	5	12	 
1976	(England)	18	34	2	1572	179  	49.12 	7	3	32	 
1977	(England)	16	25	3	927	115  	42.13 	2	5	19	 
1978	(England)	6	11	0	337	73  	30.63 	0	2	8	 
1981-82	(South Africa)	9	16	4	475	87*	39.58 	0	3	7	 
1982-83	(South Africa)	11	17	1	590	123  	36.87 	1	4	6
[B]Career record:[/B]         339    576     58       28358   356     54.74   80     152

His WSC stats, when past his best as part of the most competitive cricket contest of all time are remarkable. He made 554 runs at an average of 79.14 with 2 centuries; and another interesting fact is that Richards managed a century before lunch on 9 occasions in FC cricket, which more than likely would have been 10 if Bill Lawry wasn't cheeky with the over-rate and Bacher hadn't run himself out. What a player.
 
I bet you all a tenner (in stupid vcash if you are too pussy to do it for real) that the batting line up will be

hobbs
gavaskar
bradman
tendulkar
richards
sobers

betcha, betcha, betcha

I wouldn't like to bet on the bowling.
 
I bet you all a tenner (in stupid vcash if you are too pussy to do it for real) that the batting line up will be

hobbs
gavaskar
bradman
tendulkar
richards
sobers

betcha, betcha, betcha

I wouldn't like to bet on the bowling.

Marshall, Warne, McGrath and another dude.
 
I bet you all a tenner (in stupid vcash if you are too pussy to do it for real) that the batting line up will be

hobbs
gavaskar
bradman
tendulkar
richards
sobers

betcha, betcha, betcha

Fully agree with you, though I too think that Barry Richards deserve a look in as well. For the bowlers for sure Marshall, Warne, Mcgrath, and for the fourth i think they will either go for Wasim (best left hander) or Imran (second best all rounder), though they may surprise and go 2 spinners and pick Murali.
 
Marshall, Warne, McGrath and another dude.

Don't count out Dennis Lillee. I rate McGrath better, but talk to most Aussies (fans and experts) and I think Lillee has the popular vote. Kinda like Wasim Akram v Imran Khan. Fans LOVE Wasim, but Imran was better IMHO.

And I'd love to see Hadlee get the 4th spot TBH. Would be a great #8.
 
Why is everyone convinced that if they only pick one spinner it will be Warne over Murali?

As for Barry Richards, the man only played 4 Tests, I'm sure he was good but come on. 4 bloody Tests.

If Hughes had been injured after the Saffer series and retired, does that mean he would be in an all time Test XI?

I think its laughable, the requirement should be 20 Tests at least to get on an ALL TIME XI list.
 
Now for how I believe the selection process for the final 11 will play out for the jurors. First of all the five players selected as the Wisden Players of the Century will be automatic selections, so Jack Hobbs, Donald Bradman, Vivian Richards, Garfield Sobers and Shane Warne are the first selections, and it's hard to argue againts any.
Next pick is as easy as any for the panel, Adam Gilchrist is not only the Greatest Wicket-Keeper Batsman ever, but changed the game and his position like no other, Knott comes closest, but Gilly gets the pick.
Sachin Tendulkar is a god in India and revered just about every where else, Bradman himself rated Tendulkar just behind himself, and that is good enough for me, and I assume the panel. His record is peerles, and the only batsman that comes close to him in style or substance is Lara, and its him that Tendulkar beats out for the final middle order slot.
The fast bowlers come next and the first name on the name of the jurors has to be Malcolm Marshall, the Greatest of the great West Indies fast bowlers (just ahead of Holding and Ambrose), and some may argue the Greatest of All.
Sharing the new ball duties will be the great Glenn Mcgrath, the Tendulkar of bowlers, his stats and accuratcy are unmatched and he would provide the perfect foil to Warne and Marshall.
It's the last two spots that would inspire the most debate, competing for the opener spot along Hobbs would be Hutton, B.Richards, Greenidge, Trumper and Gavasker. All are worthy but in the end, Sunil Gavaskar, who held most of the major records before Tendulkar and is seen as the father of Indian cricket gets the nod. I personally am leaning towards Richards, but its not the pick I see the jury making.
The last decision for the panel would be the hardest of all, the final bowling selection. Who to pick between Lillee, Akram, Khan, Hadlee or Muralitharan. Lillee unfortunately would be the first one eliminated, not for ability but some would question a bowling attack with three Australians (similarly Holding was eliminated), Hadlee was seen to be the lesser all rounder to Khan, so he too is eliminated (though to protests from the N.Z selector). So it comes down to Imran, Wasim or Muttiah, and it really then depends on the desired make up of the squad. If you require an All-Rounder, then Imran Khan is the pick, Variety of a left hander then Wasim Akram, if they want two spinners the Muttiah Muralitharan would be the final pick.
My best guess is Akram or Murali, either can be supplemented by Sobers (left arm seam or spin), but Sobers was a better quick and Muttiah Muralitharan teamed with Warne is too good for the panel to resist, and by a hair over Wasim is the pick.
So in summary, not my pick, but the one I belive will be selected as the ESPN Cricinfo Test XI is Hobbs, Gavaskar, Richards, Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Gilchrist, Marshall, Warne, Muralitharan and Mcgrath.
Cheers.
 
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Don't count out Dennis Lillee. I rate McGrath better, but talk to most Aussies (fans and experts) and I think Lillee has the popular vote. Kinda like Wasim Akram v Imran Khan. Fans LOVE Wasim, but Imran was better IMHO.

And I'd love to see Hadlee get the 4th spot TBH. Would be a great #8.

this is what I think could happen.

Imran was the only asian to register on wisdens cricketer of the year though(not top 5 but he got votes), so despite pak fans loving wasim i think there is a lot of respect towards imran.

Lillee has a chance, he's so highly rated by people within that generation that he might sneak in, ahead of mcgrath.

Marshall I am 80% will be in BUT for the people that grew up in the 70s-80s (the panel) they might just see marshall as just another brilliant west indian in a long line. Holding was their first truely stratosphericly brilliant bowler, and add to that the purity of his action and he might pip marshall. also the one thing missing from marshalls arsenal is a legendary performance. Holding has that over at boycott and the rest of the accompanying series, Ambrose demolished australia, but none of marshalls fetes are quite as famous as those. I would pick marshall but I'm trying to second guess the panel.

Hadlee also commands massive respect, especially from professionals so he's not totally ruled out.

the bowling is really iffy to call.

I am pretty certain, warne will get the nod over murali, not sure some of the old critics will not only be willing to put aside the throwing but to also put him ahead of an australian legend.

I do go on a bit don't I?
 

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