How should Australia use Ryan Harris in the future

[War]

Preferably i'd say i would strictly want to solicit the views on Australian fans here on PC on this matter. Mainly because they would have by default have followed his career more than a non-oz fan.

However non-oz fans can feel free to contribute if you believe you have followed the career of Ryan Harris on an extended enough basis.


With the recent announcement that Harris will miss the marquee series vs South Africa Australia v South Africa 2012-13 : Ryan Harris expected to miss South Africa Tests | Cricket News | Australia v South Africa | ESPN Cricinfo - i can't help but feel that the more test cricket AUS keep playing him in, the quicker his career will end.

Harris clearly is AUS best test bowler when fit, but i think a stage with him has reached now where the selectors need to stop him from playing test and let him just play ODIs with the 2015 world cup in mind.

As most AUS fans know after the 2011 ashes debacle, when AUS quick bowling stocks seemed to be in its worth state in 20+ years - Harris emerged as the only shinning light and the man who AUS desperately needed to lead its attack, especially with ashes 2013 in mind.

But since the tour to S Africa last year, AUS have had the emergence of young stalwarts in Cummins, Pattinson and Starc, along with the re-emergence of Hilfenhaus and Siddle.

This for me is a clear indication that Harris is not needed in test cricket anymore. The man injury is very similar to what affected Bond, Malinga and Flintoff - his knee's just can't handle test cricket.

As aforementioned if he stops playing tests now, his knee's at his age can saved to be a key part of AUS 2015 World Cup attack on home soil. But if he keeps playing tests, he risk having to quick cricket all together i fear which would be a tragedy.

 

[Owzat]

Sparingly?

 

[sifter132]

His future depends on a few things I think. a) how well Siddle, Hilfenhaus and the other quicks go. Siddle was actually very Harris-esque last season, bustling in, always at the batsman on a good line and length, nipping the ball successfully. If Sids can keep that up, then I could argue Harris isn't needed in Tests. But at the same time...if Harris is bowling well - and as you say, he's probably the best bowler we've got when firing - why wouldn't you play both? In that way, I'd much rather see Harris' remaining knee cartilage burned in an Ashes series rather than nursing him through to the World Cup. He'll be 35 by 2015, I don't see how a notoriously injured guy would keep himself training hard for that long.

The other factor is the young fast bowlers fitness. Arthur is already talking about rotating Pattinson, Cummins and Starc to stop them bowling too much. Harris might very well be added to that rotation list. If you had 2-3 of those 4 in the squad at any one time, along with Siddle and Hilfenhaus in Tests, McKay and Johnson in ODIs, then you'd always have 4-5 decent, fit bowling options ready to play in your squad.

As you say he sure is at risk of quitting cricket, and the tragedy is not so much now, but the fact that the light bulb came on for him too late in his career. By then his knees were shot and any international career would only be fleeting. I don't see how he can be nursed through much longer. I think the way to manage him would be to just look at the calendar ahead, target the series you want him playing in and do everything possible to have him fit and firing for those series. DON'T RELY ON HIS FITNESS. If he does make those series, it's gravy on top.

It's almost an ethical question in a way: you know this guy is going to hammer his knees - is it right to make him play as much as possible? Like a mercernary for the cause? Ultimately it comes down to Harris, which format he wants to play most and how motivated he is to keep fighting injury.

 

[War]

Well as i said his knee injury is similar to what Bond, Malinga and Flintoff had/have.

Bond was able to almost go until 35 after finally realizing that his body after years of injury couldn't handle test. So i think if the selectors tell Harris for his own good that they don't need him in tests. But instead focus on the 2015 world cup - it will save his career.

At this rate, i fear we will wake up one morning and will hear Harris tell us he has given up tests because his knee's cant take it or he will just quit cricket all together.

Based on the argus review, no doubt the 2013 ashes year is bigger than winning back the world cup as things stand as of right now.

However i'm fairly confident that the bowling with Hilfy, Siddle and the young guns is already a solid enough attack group to try and get positive results in those series. Even if the selectors are going to manage how much tests Pattinson, Starc, Cummins play from now on.

We also have Bollinger who surely would creep back into the test match calculations if he has a solid season for New South Wales.

 

[Sedition]

It's hard to find a post where you don't mention Bollinger, War He's been a bit of a powderpuff when it comes to injuries recently too. I'm always happy to see him in the NSW side, and perhaps that's why I have some selfish reasons for wanting him to be overlooked for Australian selection, unless mass injury strikes all those I have ahead of him.

As for Harris, no doubt he's a very good test bowler, but I don't particularly want to see him around the test side anymore, unless again, mass injury strikes everyone else. As talented as he is, I just don't have faith in him towards the latter stages of the first innings even, and then seems to be used sparingly in the second. We can get away with it if we've dominated the test until that stage, but otherwise he becomes the weak link in the team I feel.

 

[puddleduck]

They should use him for medical research. Ryan Harris, bowler, a man barely alive. Gentlemen, they can rebuild him, they will have the technology, they have the capability to build the world's first bionic man. Ryan Harris will be that man. We can make him better than he was before; better, stronger, faster.

 

[Sedition]

Just give him blades, I could handle that.

 

[puddleduck]

Surely he'd take the route the sprinter who beat Pistorious took (or at least Oscar alleged him of taking)? 50 foot blades with obscene bounce off a length

 

[War]

It's hard to find a post where you don't mention Bollinger, War He's been a bit of a powderpuff when it comes to injuries recently too. I'm always happy to see him in the NSW side, and perhaps that's why I have some selfish reasons for wanting him to be overlooked for Australian selection, unless mass injury strikes all those I have ahead of him.

No doubt he has been injured a lot in recent times. But bringing up continously is important cause the current and past selection panel have been very incoherent about is role/future in the side ever since the 2010, Adelaide, ashes test.

It looks even worse, especially with the current selections panel love affair with Mitchell Johnson.

In another country where quick bowling stocks are limited, Bollinger would not have been treated like this. Fairness and clarity about selections in this area has been lacking.

 

[sifter132]

Well you and I won't see eye to eye on Bollinger vs Johnson I can at least understand why Johnson was persisted with (and still is). He was only ICC Cricketer of the Year in 2009 and a guy with the potential and raw ability to be a 'great'. The fact that he didn't meet that potential very often is a different issue...

But anyway...for Harris I think plan A would be to get him playing as many Ashes Tests as possible next year. Given how frequently the young lads have been injured, I think Australia will need 5+ pace bowlers to make it through those 10 Tests. So to say to Harris now that he shouldn't play Test cricket again is dicing with trouble in my opinion. We don't want to see average bowlers picked at the back end of those Ashes series because of lack of depth. Then after that, Plan B would be to get him to ignore Test cricket and to get him to the 2015 World Cup in decent shape.

And just on what I was saying earlier about making players play through injury, or making them 'defy science'...well this article was talking about how often bowlers can bowl depending on their age:
Australia Cricket News: Australia to rotate young fast bowlers in Tests | ESPN Cricinfo

"The sports scientists tell me that our guys under the age of 25 can bowl 52 to 55 days in a year," Arthur told reporters in Sri Lanka this week. "Whereas guys like Peter Siddle and Ben Hilfenhaus and Mitchell Johnson, over the age of the 25, they can probably give you 75 [days] at high intensity.

"We were told by the sports scientists that James Pattinson would break down in the Sydney Test match. We then got all that information and [captain] Michael Clarke and myself and the selector on duty, we thought that the impact he'd made in Melbourne, it was worth taking that risk. Even though he broke down, he got four wickets in the first innings, he got Gautam Gambhir in the first over of that Test match, arguably he put us on the road to win that Test. That was a risk that we thought was worthwhile."

 

[Owzat]

It's hard to find a post where you don't mention Bollinger, War He's been a bit of a powderpuff when it comes to injuries recently too. I'm always happy to see him in the NSW side, and perhaps that's why I have some selfish reasons for wanting him to be overlooked for Australian selection, unless mass injury strikes all those I have ahead of him.

As for Harris, no doubt he's a very good test bowler, but I don't particularly want to see him around the test side anymore, unless again, mass injury strikes everyone else. As talented as he is, I just don't have faith in him towards the latter stages of the first innings even, and then seems to be used sparingly in the second. We can get away with it if we've dominated the test until that stage, but otherwise he becomes the weak link in the team I feel.

Wot I sed, except I used one word instead of hundreds.

 

[aussie1st]

Alot will depend on how the youngsters go, if they can step up then Harris will become a fill in bowler when injury hits. Peter Siddle has pretty much taken up Harris Test match role so we are no longer in the situation where Harris is a must pick when fit. Time will tell where our pacemen are at in the Test format, we have seen glimpses of a bright future but the Ashes is the benchmark.

Likewise the ODI side follows the same trend with a lot dependent on the youngsters. He probably can still walk into the side but in saying that his recent ODI showings weren't great so time and the injuries might be catching up on him. In ODIs we also start to add guys like NCN and McDermott who have been going great guns.

Basically I wouldn't make him focus on one single format as he still potentially has a use in both formats (don't see a need for him in T20s).

 

[War]

Well you and I won't see eye to eye on Bollinger vs Johnson I can at least understand why Johnson was persisted with (and still is). He was only ICC Cricketer of the Year in 2009 and a guy with the potential and raw ability to be a 'great'. The fact that he didn't meet that potential very often is a different issue...

But anyway...for Harris I think plan A would be to get him playing as many Ashes Tests as possible next year. Given how frequently the young lads have been injured, I think Australia will need 5+ pace bowlers to make it through those 10 Tests. So to say to Harris now that he shouldn't play Test cricket again is dicing with trouble in my opinion. We don't want to see average bowlers picked at the back end of those Ashes series because of lack of depth. Then after that, Plan B would be to get him to ignore Test cricket and to get him to the 2015 World Cup in decent shape.

And just on what I was saying earlier about making players play through injury, or making them 'defy science'...well this article was talking about how often bowlers can bowl depending on their age:
Australia Cricket News: Australia to rotate young fast bowlers in Tests | ESPN Cricinfo

Haha well yes my friend, we won't agree on that Johnson issue - we will just go around in circles. All i'd say about him is if the faith showed in him doesn't bring positive performances soon, his place will become untenable quite soon.


On Harris well yea i don't disagree with those A and B Scenario's of how he should be used.

All i would say if if the three young star quicks + Siddle and Hilfenhaus perform of solid standard in the south africa series (whether australia win or lose or draw) - then i think that will be enough evidence to state that the test bowling attack can do without him en route to the ashes.

 

[spooony]

Well you and I won't see eye to eye on Bollinger vs Johnson I can at least understand why Johnson was persisted with (and still is). He was only ICC Cricketer of the Year in 2009 and a guy with the potential and raw ability to be a 'great'. The fact that he didn't meet that potential very often is a different issue...

But anyway...for Harris I think plan A would be to get him playing as many Ashes Tests as possible next year. Given how frequently the young lads have been injured, I think Australia will need 5+ pace bowlers to make it through those 10 Tests. So to say to Harris now that he shouldn't play Test cricket again is dicing with trouble in my opinion. We don't want to see average bowlers picked at the back end of those Ashes series because of lack of depth. Then after that, Plan B would be to get him to ignore Test cricket and to get him to the 2015 World Cup in decent shape.

And just on what I was saying earlier about making players play through injury, or making them 'defy science'...well this article was talking about how often bowlers can bowl depending on their age:
Australia Cricket News: Australia to rotate young fast bowlers in Tests | ESPN Cricinfo

Ok let me get this. They knew he had a injury so instead of the risk of maybe serious damaging him further ending his career and probably will be the reason for thousands of dollars of medical bills after he has long finished cricket, they still played him and used him like a old Durex condom which is only good for 1 use. That is not really a good picture on Australia cricket and looking out for the welfare of their cricketers which is suppose to come first..

For the Sports science part is common knowledge that a person below 25 have a weaker and not fully developed vertebrae. That is why the ECB also released procedures and rules that states the amount of balls certain age group can bowl.

What bothers me with the above is that they have seen a injury which was 99,9 percent to do with the vertebrae which makes it more horrific that they let him play! Back injuries is something that will comeback and haunt you later.

See the pars? That is the part fast bowlers normally injure and they can see it on X rays, MRI and such. So they did not predict they saw the injury and let him play

 

[War]

^^

Essentially that's problem. AUS from the inception have always been taking a risk with Harris by consistently playing him in tests, ever since it was realized how bad his knee's were.