17th Match, Group E: New Zealand v Pakistan at Bridgetown

[Dabi]

I rest my 'having beard and doing religious stuff' case.

Thank you very much...

Probables: Shoaib Malik, Kamran Akmal, Rana Naveed, Umar Akmal, M. Yusuf, Afridi...

How many of them are religious exactly????
And in case you didn't notice, "religious extremists" are not playing anymore.

Oh and in case you forgot, during Inzi' reign as captain we did enjoy success for a short amount of time and even when blowing hot and cold, there weren't any mumblings about in-fighting and we were much better off than we are now. So you're 'beard and religious stuff' thing really has no basis and all that happens is you come off looking like an idiot.

 

[pcfan123]

Hardly one mans fault for the entire teams screw ups. Shoaib Malik is worse.

Hmm, I disagree. I think Afridi has a profound influence on the younger guys. Worst thing for Pakistan would be if youngsters like Umar akmel and Aamir start to display Afridi traits.

I rest my 'having beard and doing religious stuff' case.

Thank you very much...

I find it hilarious actually, they put so much emphasis on God being behind them and if they win its "gods will", given their recent trend of horrific form, I guess it means God is not Pakistans biggest fan :laugh

 

[Dare]

Hmm, I disagree. I think Afridi has a profound influence on the younger guys. Worst thing for Pakistan would be if youngsters like Umar akmel and Aamir start to display Afridi traits.

But he isn't the only guy that has that influence on the youngsters. You had Malik, Rana, Akhtar, Yousuf, Afridi and Younis all doing stupid things and influencing the young players.
Umar Akmal is going to be influenced by Kamran the most. They are brothers and probably spend allot of time together so thats where he will get his bad manners and behavior from probably.
Pakistan will be in trouble until they get a captain along the lines of Imran or Inzi.

 

[Aoun13]

Close match but poor batting ass usual from us. NZ was very good in keeping their head cool till the end.
Their are lots of reason behind Pakistan's lose which may be disclose after T20 WC but for now I don't want anything to happen which allow Pakistan in Semi's, they were not a team that must be semi's this year.

 

[pcfan123]

it might have to be a case of throwing out the old guard. I just can't understand why out of all those bans the PCB handed down, Afridi remained untouched.

If anything Afridi should have been the one banned, he cheated as captain and lied about it. Seriously damaging to the teams credibility and morale.

 

[inzii]

You're right they associate religion with the sport a lot. I personally think religion should really be kept aside. Wonder where religion is when they fix matches. Tbh this Pak team is not the best XI. There are so many other better players but they dont let them come through and when they do they don't give them time to perform (Fawad Alam), he averages more than 50 and 40 in First class and List A respectively, but i dont think they play him enough and when they do, late down the order.

Also it seems like Paki players never use their brains on the field. If only more than half the side was well educated

 

[pcfan123]

What Pakistan need:

1) Removal of the old guard (Afridi, Malik, Kamran banned for life)

2) Sports psychologist to teach the youngsters how to cope with pressure and their personal lives

3) An independent and private board that is not associated with the government in power. they need a private company to run it, like a BCCI. Perhaps even outsource it to avoid having to use local people which will lead to nepotism and favoritism.

4) a proper Fielding coach

 

[BKB1991]

Cant really explain my disappointment after this.....
Came back at one stage with Abdur Rehman in song and restricted the NZ team to a below par score. Nasser Hussain said it during the time Vettori was batting that all NZ needed to do was get to 130 odd and then they can have a go at Pakistan. They did more than that. Stupidity prevails in Pakistani cricket, and only Butt showed maturity with his knock. Unfortunately he isnt a match-winner and couldnt do it. Abdur Rehman played one of the most lousiest shots possible in that situation. Had anyone with some sense been there, he would have just tried to touch the ball and run for his life. But hey, he wants to be the hero and end it with a boundary.

People have been speaking about Afridi as a character. His bowl biting tactics bought the whole nation to shame, and if you were wondering why he wasnt punished severely by the PCB, its cuz of some lame rule that If ICC punish him for the crime then he cant be punished for it by PCB. Its something like that. The other bannings were quiet clear. Yousef and Younis had a spat about Yousef's fielding which ultimately caused the downfall of Younis's captaincy tenure. Younis is easily the best captain we had and when those SOBs went against him, it harmed Pakistan Cricket most. About the other players that were banned, Malik and Rana are believed to have been responsible for infighting among the team. Hardly surprising, cuz as a Pakistani fan I have been hearing the rumours for year at least that Malik's isnt supporting the captain. I think that to be true, Alam just confirmed it, so I reckon we should end his career and he can live of his wifes money.

About the T20 WC, I am glad its over. We dont deserve to go through and I dont want to get my hopes up if England win tonight. Crappy teams that cant field to save their lifes dont deserve to go past the Super 8s. Its so tweaking frustrating that we make the same tweaking mistakes every tournament. Afridi's captaincy throughout the WC was ordinary, he wasnt as aggresive as he should be and when you see the failures like Sami and Hafeez playing its quite clear that the team does not have winning as the only objective. We could have had Mohammad Irfan (rumoured to be about 7ft tall fast bowler) in the tournament if Ejaz Butt hadnt decided to play whos the boss.

I really am so pissed about how we went today. Younis Khan was a clean person and we won the cup last year despite the odds against us. I would LOVE the PCB to bring him back, and chuck all those players who didnt support him. Yes All of them. Players must to be told to respect the captain, irrespective of senority or any other issue. We are the only team that does this ████.

May God save Pakistan cricket cuz PCB and the players surely cant

 

[Dabi]

it might have to be a case of throwing out the old guard. I just can't understand why out of all those bans the PCB handed down, Afridi remained untouched.

If anything Afridi should have been the one banned, he cheated as captain and lied about it. Seriously damaging to the teams credibility and morale.

You didn't get the memo? Afirid wasn't banned because he cheated because he was desperate to win. So basically he was cheating to help his country, which is ok!

The problem also stems from the fact that people like annoying devil think of him as a superstar, rather than the idiot that he is.

A removal of the old guard would serve to do well but that seems unlikely. A fielding coach wouldn't help if these guys don't enjoy fielding in the first place and an independent board is as likely as hell freezing over so not gonna happen. The problem that afflicts our cricketers is the attitude which is fostered into club cricketers at an early age which is then carried forward to all levels of cricket.

An average club cricketer (provided he is a senior member of the club) would act (and field) as if he is a mega superstar playing a charity match. These guys always have someone to blame for their failures, it's never their fault that they are out; the ball swung too much, the umpire had it wrong, etc etc. Anyone with an ounce of talent quickly becomes a senior member and it relatively untouchable hence forth. This kind of attitude is infectious and only serves to hinder progress of the team and the players themselves.

Dabi added 8 Minutes and 53 Seconds later...

@BKB191: You bring up some important issues, namely about repeating our mistakes and Afridi's captaincy. This latest news about 6-7 players taking oath against the captain borders on ludicrous and all of them should be banned for life immediately. I mean no matter how bad a captain is, you don't go about taking oaths against him!

As for the tall fast bowler, Mohammad Irfan, well I'm guessing you haven't seen him bowl. He's tall and gets bounce and that's about it. When looking for bowlers, one needs to identify bowlers who have a thing called 'brain', which I'm sorry to say Irfan lacks. Sajid Mehmood of England was tall, pacy, bouncy and could cut the ball. You don't see him lighting up the international scene now do you? I hate this obsession with Irfan, epecially those who demand that he get a place in the side without having seen him bowl. He's really not worth it. Us Pakistanis tend to overhype players who are sorely lacking in key departments, I'll give you an example. Sear cricinfo for '04 articles, it will tell you of a Pakistani bowler on the first class season, tipped to be the next Glenn McGrath. His name.....Rao Iftikhar.

That said, Ijaz Butt really should not be interfering in selection matters. IF you think your selectors are really that inept, just fire them, not become the selector yourself!

 

[BKB1991]

@BKB191: You bring up some important issues, namely about repeating our mistakes and Afridi's captaincy. This latest news about 6-7 players taking oath against the captain borders on ludicrous and all of them should be banned for life immediately. I mean no matter how bad a captain is, you don't go about taking oaths against him!

As for the tall fast bowler, Mohammad Irfan, well I'm guessing you haven't seen him bowl. He's tall and gets bounce and that's about it. When looking for bowlers, one needs to identify bowlers who have a thing called 'brain', which I'm sorry to say Irfan lacks. Sajid Mehmood of England was tall, pacy, bouncy and could cut the ball. You don't see him lighting up the international scene now do you? I hate this obsession with Irfan, epecially those who demand that he get a place in the side without having seen him bowl. He's really not worth it. Us Pakistanis tend to overhype players who are sorely lacking in key departments, I'll give you an example. Sear cricinfo for '04 articles, it will tell you of a Pakistani bowler on the first class season, tipped to be the next Glenn McGrath. His name.....Rao Iftikhar.

That said, Ijaz Butt really should not be interfering in selection matters. IF you think your selectors are really that inept, just fire them, not become the selector yourself!

The players that took an oath against Younis were so sick. I would like to be captain of my team, but not at this cost. These people should be taken out immediately, and I think we need to end their careers this instant. I would rather see 11 Sunday-league players play for Pakistan rather than those....

Regarding Irfan he isnt special big deal, I saw the T20 and the Pentangular Cup. The only thing that counts for him is his height and hey, he was like 3rd back-up seamer and one you would say could make more of an impact than Abdur Rehman. However, I am more pissed at the procedure in which he got rejected. You said it yourself, the coach, the captain, the chief selector wanted him and the only one who didnt want him was Ejaz Butt. Irfan or any other fast bowler could have been a handy replacement considering that we had lost Umar Gul, the best bowler in this version. Making matters worse, was seeing Asif and Sami get owned and knowing we didnt have any replacements.

Alams selection in the team continued to surprise me. This lad has got a great record in the domestic circuit and seems good enough to be in the ODI or a Test lineup. Heck, include him in the T20 setup as well, but why do we need him at no.8 when the guy you need at that position is someone who can slog out. Ideally IMO Alam would have suceeded if he had been batting at no 3 instead of Hafeez. Having said just that, I realize we could have done with him considering our super fail batting order.

The only thing positive about this World Cup was the performance of Salman Butt and Mohammad Aamir. Salman Butt really changed the way I thought about him and showed that he deserves to play this version. With proper guidance, and without damaging influences he could be a vital player in the coming future. Aamir was also superb throughout the tournament. The new ball spells and even the ones at the depth were a treat to watch. He has also started bowling the perfect yorker which is an invaluable bowl in this version of the game.

 

[Dabi]

Yeah I'm on the same page about ending the careers of those players. About the Irfan issue as well, like I said, I'm completely against the the way that our chairman went about it. If you don't think the selector is doing a good job, then fire him, else let him do what he's being paid to do!

Amir and Butt have indeed continued to impress, although I worry about all this going to Butt's head because he does have an ego.

As for Alam, I do think he should be in all three formats but should be sent higher than the hitters. I fear they will ruin his career in test cricket if they continue to send him high up the order and then throwing him out if he fails. He doesn't have a good technique against the moving ball and a fighting 150 shouldn't fool anyone into thinking he's an opener. I hope they start playing him in the tests and sending him in the middle or lower middle order where he may be able to become a useful number 6 / 7 batsman for us.

The rest, well nothing really positive to say about anyone of them!

 

[BKB1991]

What about Butts ego? Thats interesting. I really havent come across that before.

Alam looks like a good cricketer in the making. He isnt the most talented, but his determination makes up for it. I enjoyed his debut hundred cause most of our accomplished batsmen failed in that series against the moving ball. His ordinary technique was visible in New Zealand, but with proper guidance and improvement Alam can turn out to be a sucessful player. Plus he has got a sensible head on those shoulders and that is a very valuable trait in a Pakistani player. The tour to England will be a huge challenge for him and the way he goes there would be interesting to watch.

 

[Dabi]

What about Butts ego? Thats interesting. I really havent come across that before.

Alam looks like a good cricketer in the making. He isnt the most talented, but his determination makes up for it. I enjoyed his debut hundred cause most of our accomplished batsmen failed in that series against the moving ball. His ordinary technique was visible in New Zealand, but with proper guidance and improvement Alam can turn out to be a sucessful player. Plus he has got a sensible head on those shoulders and that is a very valuable trait in a Pakistani player. The tour to England will be a huge challenge for him and the way he goes there would be interesting to watch.

The thing about Butt is that he has an inflated sense of self worth and I just fear that it sometimes hinders his progress as a player. I've played with and watched Butt and his circle of domestic players closely enough to know this and the fact that he has many connections in the powerful Lahore Cricket Association serves only to fuel his ego. I really like him as a player, just hope that he doesn't let this get to his head like he did his early success against India.

Yeah, I loved Alam's innings as well for the reasons you mentioned. The only reason I back him is the fact that he seems to be a figher (a quality our side desperately lacks) and it's his general sensible style of play that I admire. Not too mention that he can score quickly without really hitting the boundaries, which is an asset what with all the power hitters in our side. I hope he (and our team in general) performs well in England.

As for the WC, I know we don't deserve to move into the semis, we really dont...But I still hope that we move forward.

 

[Robelinda]

Pakistan need Imran Khan. Simple.

Afridi is a disgrace. Absolute disgrace.

 

[Dutch]

Pakistan need Imran Khan. Simple.

Afridi is a disgrace. Absolute disgrace.

Wasn't Afridi the player who stepped on the pitch and tried to scuff it up when England played Pakistan in 2005? There was an explosion in the crowd and in the ensuing chaos he walked over and trampled all over the footmarks...says enough about the integrity of the man.