All-Time Test XIs

Thought I'd have a go at a Zimbabwean All Time XI:

1: Stuart Carlisle
2: Alistair Campbell
3: Grant Flower
4: David Houghton
5: Dion Ebrahim
6: Andy Flower
7: Heath Streak
8: Paul Strang
9: Ray Price/Bryan Strang
10: Eddo Brandes
11: Henry Olonga

thoughts?
 
Ha...Taibu is a joke besides Dave Houghton was a wicket keeper too....

@Hooper: Dougie Hondo ....of course but he can be used as a bowler in the nets :D ....
 
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Can someone suggest a captain for SA, India, NZ, and Eng from the XIs that I and chainsnatcher have given in this thread on page 10? and can someone give a Test XI for Sri Lanka ?
 
Sobers was also not the greatest bowler. Very good, a matchwinner, but according to his stats better at being a stock bowler.

I agree, too many see Sobers stats and conclude he was a great all-rounder. I would say he was a great batsman and very good bowler, but if included for his bowling alone would not make any best ever XI. He may average 34 to say Botham's 28.40, but those six runs are a gulf in bowling terms.

I also don't believe Hadlee is an all-rounder, not enough batting displays despite a healthy enough average. It's not just about averages, with Hadlee, Sobers or any all-rounder, their potency with bat and ball ie 100s and 5wis also contribute to their "all-round-ness". I did my own analysis of the various figures for all-rounders, including 5wis etc and unfortunately averages do still put the likes of Sobers (6th) and Hadlee (3rd) high up because their performances with either bat or ball were immense compared to your joe average all-rounder who averages say 33 with bat and 25 with ball.

As I remember, my analysis required all-rounders to have scored 1000+ runs and taken 100+ wickets. Hadlee came out with lowest bowling average, Sobers highest batting average. Had I set in requirements that all-rounders had to average less than 30 with ball and more than 30 with bat then neither would have made the grade and leave only nine all-rounders who fit into the concept of ideal

1. Ian Botham : 5200 runs @ 33.55 & 376 wkts @ 28.40
2. Imran Khan : 3807 runs @ 37.69 & 362 wkts @ 22.81
3. Chris Cairns : 3320 runs @ 33.54 & 218 wkts @ 29.40
4. Kapil Dev : 5248 runs @ 31.05 & 434 wkts @ 29.65
5. Keith Miller : 2958 runs @ 36.98 & 170 wkts @ 22.98
6. Shaun Pollock : 3444 runs @ 31.60 & 394 wkts @ 23.20
7. Montague Noble : 1997 runs @ 30.26 & 121 wkts @ 25.00
8. Wilfred Rhodes : 2325 runs @ 30.19 & 127 wkts @ 26.97
9. Trevor Goddard : 2516 runs @ 34.47 & 123 wkts @ 26.23

The above rankings are not based purely on averages, they are all compared on their comparitive batting ave, HS, 50 as %, 100 as %, Runs/Inns, bowling ave, SR, 5wi as %, 10wm as % . I simply don't have the time or inclination to list their 5wis etc and their rank by each.

So why is Imran below Both despite better averages in both batting and bowling? Imran didn't score half as many 100s as Botham, for the record there was like 0.1 rating between the two overall so very close. Why is Cairns at three? A high rate of 50s and 100s to innings, a better HS than average (158, higher than a fair few on that list with Both's 208 the highest) and he held his own otherwise. Notice the nine don't include 'all-rounders' such as Sobers and Hadlee, because I've cut out anyone who averages the wrong side of 30 with bat or ball. That isn't harsh, it is how you single out the very best, keep making the requirements more stringent until few are left (or one) Once down to nine any more filtering by average would have been ridiculous.


Include Sobers as a batsman who can bowl a fifth bowler's quota, but an all-rounder should have perhaps a bit more bite with the ball. Play him at six, Imran or Both at seven and you've got a good attack. Just needs a top opening quick or two and a spinner and you've a good attack.

Say :

Hadlee
Marshall
Imran Khan
Sobers
Warne

And in batting order :

6. Sobers
7. Imran Khan
8. Wicket-Keeper (perhaps higher, depends who)
9. Marshall
10. Hadlee
11. Warne

No problem with batting or bowling, maybe who would be stuck 10 and 11 would be an issue. Arguably all those bowlers are all-rounders, but in this instance I'd be classing Sobers as a batsman, Imran as the all-rounder and Marshall, Hadlee and Warne as bowlers (who are very handy with the bat)
 
Sobers' bowling average doesn't reflect how good a bowler he was. He started test match cricket as a slow left arm bowler at 19 before he learned the art of swing bowling. Geoffrey Boycott has said that he's one of the best swing bowlers he played against.

I've looked at Sobers statistics between 1960 and 1973. Sobers played 61 tests and took 195 wickets at 31, which would giver a better indication of how good a bowler he was. Although I wish we could find out how many wickets he took with just seamers, I'm sure it would have averaged under 30.
 
I dont really care what anyone else thinks because its my personal opinion

I would replace Jeff Thompson with Glenn McGrath.

McGrath 4875 overs 563 Wickets at an average of 21.64. He took 5 wickets in one innings on 29 occasions and took 10 or more wickets in one test on 3 occaisons, with a best bowling on 8/24.

Jeff Thompson bowled 1755 overs, took 200 wickets at an average of 28. He took 5 wickets on 8 occasions and never took 10 or more wickets in one match. had a best bowling of 6/46.

In test cricket, keeping the runs down is the biggest player. amoung accuracy and variety. McGrath had all of those, with mainly using Bounce, accuracy and pitch variation earlier in his career and later on devloped in to a very reliable swing bowler.

Jeff Thompson on the other hand, heavily relied on making the batsman hurt and injured to take wickets, or just knock the bastman out. His skill level as a bowler are slighly questioned, although he is arguably the fastest bowler Australia has ever produced.
 
I'll have a go at an all-time England XI:

Jack Hobbs
Herbert Sutcliffe
Wally Hammond
Ken Barrington
Kevin Pietersen
Ian Botham
Andrew Flintoff
Alan Knott
Jim Laker
Fred Trueman
Sydney Barnes

There were so many more players I wanted to include, guys like Len Hutton, Peter May, Dennis Compton, Graeme Gooch, Bob Willis, Jon Snow, Ted Dexter, and Alex Stewart. I'm happy with that side though. Wanted to include Pietersen and Flintoff as they'll go down as modern greats, but the rest pretty much picked themselves tbh. The only position that I really struggled with was the opener alongside Hobbs, could have been Sutcliffe or Hutton but because of Hobbs and Sutcliffe's record together it had to be Sutcliffe. Happy with that side, would give most teams a real run for their money!



Very close to my All Time England XI which is:

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Pietersen/ Compton
Hammond
Stewart
Botham/ Flintoff
Laker
Trueman
Barnes
Willis
 
Time for another article from yours truly, this time Ive decided to try and determine my All-Time test XI. I will look to players from all generations, and will attempt to look in detail at every specific position within the team, before delivering my all-time XI at the end of the article. I believe a perfect Test XI has to consist of 2 openers, 3 middle order batsmen, an all-rounder, a wicket keeper and then 4 bowlers with 1 of them a spinner. Thats how the article will be structured, so here goes, well start with the openers.

The Opening Batsmen

Picking 2 opening batsmen from every generation of cricket is going to be an incredibly difficult task. There are so many options, you have arguably the greatest modern opener in Matthew Hayden to players from previous generations like Gavaskar, Haynes, Greenidge, and then even further back with the great Jack Hobbs. For me, the greatest opening batsman of all-time is Sir Jack Hobbs. He had a First Class career spanning 29 glorious years, in which time he played 834 First Class matches, scoring over 60000 runs at an astounding average of 50.70. He also played 61 Test matches, making 5140 runs, at an impressive average of 56.94. These stats alone make him a shoe in for the side as far as Im concerned. So thats one place sorted.

Picking the second opening batsman is going to be a tougher task. It is incredibly tempting to partner Jack Hobbs with his partner of the time Herbert Sutcliffe. They both have incredible records, and an even more impressive record as an opening pair. In 38 opening stands in Test Cricket they made 3249 runs at an average opening stand of 87.81, the highest average for any opening pair to ever play the game. These are certainly incredible stats, and I think theyll surpass anyone else I could pick for the position.

The other guys that are in contention are Sunil Gavaskar, Matthew Hayden and Gordon Greenidge. Gavaskar probably has the best record of the 3 batsmen on show. Hes one of the few batsmen to make 10000 runs in Test Cricket, and an average over 50 considering the time he played is very impressive. Matthew Hayden has a better record in terms of average, but the key point to remember is that Hayden is playing in a time with better bats, batsmen friendly pitches, a decline in quality pace bowling, and smaller boundaries. Hayden also struggles when playing in bowler friendly conditions, as proven by his relatively disappointing record in England and New Zealand, as well as a poor record in South Africa. It is for that reason that Hayden is out of contention.

This leaves the choice between Herbert Sutcliffe, Sunil Gavaskar and Gordon Greenidge. Greenidge is considered to be one of the best opening batsmen of all-time, he played as part of the famous invincible West Indies side of the 70s and 80s with such stars as Sobers, Haynes, Richards, Holding, Roberts, Garner etc. Greenidge played in the era of the great pace bowlers, with guys like Dennis Lillee, Jeff Thomson, Kapil Dev, Richard Hadlee, and many others around at the time. The fact that Greenidge never had to play against the fab four of the West Indian pace bowlers does work against him though.
I have therefore come to the conclusion that, although both Gavaskar and Greenidge had fantastic records, the only man that can really partner Jack Hobbs, with a fantastic previous track record has to be the great Yorkshireman Herbert Sutcliffe. So that means the 2 openers are sorted, with the opening pair being Sir Jack Hobbs and Herbert Sutcliffe.

The Middle Order Batsmen

The Middle Order is widely known as the engine room of the batting line-up. This is where the majority of the runs are made, with 3 world class batsmen needed to fill the role its not going to be an easy choice. The obvious candidate to be guaranteed a position is the unmatchable Sir Donald Bradman, but the other 2 positions will be more difficult to fill, with guys like Viv Richards, Wally Hammond, Sachin Tendulkar, Ricky Ponting, Graeme Pollock, Allan Border and Sir Len Hutton all vying for positions.

Number 3

Picking the man to bat at number 3 in my line-up is possibly going to be the easiest choice of any position in the team. There is only 1 man capable of doing the job, and it is of course the legendary Sir Donald Bradman. The wiley Australians Test record has never and probably will never be surpassed by anyone. His Test record of 52 matches, 6996 Runs at an average of 99.94 is the greatest of anyone. He may not have the sheer depth of runs when compared with a Border, Tendulkar or Ponting, but his average is what makes him so special. No one since the end of Bradmans career has come close. He is simply the greatest batsman to ever play the game of cricket.

Number 4

Deciding on the positions from here is going to be more difficult. I have had 1 man in mind for this position though. The man I have decided to go for is the great Sir Vivian Richards. This could be a somewhat controversial pick, but as far as Im concerned theres no better batsman ever that offers more entertainment than Viv. Every time he walked to the crease you knew youd be in for a show. Vivs aggressive method of play somewhat revolutionised the game, and definitely helped with the birth of ODi cricket around the world. Hes got the record for the fastest Test Century in 54 balls, a record that has only been close to being broken on 1 occasion by Adam Gilchrist in the 2007 Ashes. Vivs Test record is also incredibly impressive, playing 121 Test Matches, scoring 8540 runs at an average of 50.23. The average of 50 is something that all players try to reach, but only Viv has played in such a manner and maintained such a high average. The only modern player than can even compare to Sir Vivian is Kevin Pietersen, both playing in a similar fashion, but with Viv having far more talent.

Number 5

The final position in the middle order is another that could possibly cause a little bit of controversy. Many people will be claiming that I should include one of the modern greats in the middle order, someone like Ponting, Tendulkar or Lara. I disagree however, as I believe the man I have chose surpasses any of them in terms of pure talent, and in my eyes is one of the most talented players to ever play the game. The man Ive chosen? It is of course, the greatest South African batsman of all-time, and probably the greatest left handed batsman of all time, the incomparable Graeme Pollock.

This may cause controversy and people may disagree, but I have watched documentaries about the man, have seen his statistics and more importantly I have seen him bat. Apart from possibly Viv Richards, Ive never seen a man with better hand-eye co-ordination step onto a cricket field. Graeme Pollock is one of the most talented batsmen to ever play the game, but also one of the most unfortunate. Pollock unfortunately played in the time of the Apartheid, and the time when South Africa were omitted from World Sport. Graeme Pollock may only have played 23 Test Matches, but his average of 60.97 speaks volumes for the mans talent. He had First Class and List A averages above 50, and was named as the joint greatest left handed batsman alongside Garfield Sobers by the great Don Bradman. High praise, but deserved praise. Pollock therefore gets into my team, batting at number 5.

To sum up the middle order, I have gone for Bradman, Richards and Pollock. They join Hobbs and Sutcliffe in the side. Now time to find the best all-rounder of all-time.

All-Rounder

For me and Im sure for most cricket fans, the selection of the greatest All-Rounder of all-time is about as easy as picking Bradman in the middle order. There may have been some great all-rounders in the past, guys like Dev, Hadlee, Benaud, Botham, etc, but the one that really stands out above them all is the great Sir Garfield Sobers.

Sobers, with his Test batting average of 57, his 26 Test match hundreds, his Test wickets tally at 235 at an average of 34 makes him far and away the greatest all-rounder of all time. Theres no competition for me. His batting alone makes him one of the greatest, and alongside Graeme Pollock, was named as the joint greatest left handed batsman by Sir Donald Bradman. So, batting at 6 and providing the all-rounder role, the great Sir Garfield Sobers.

Wicket Keeper

When it comes to picking a wicket-keeper, Im back to a very tough decision again. Do I go for more of an all-rounder and someone more known for their batting in Adam Gilchrist or Kumar Sangakkara, or do I go for a pure wicket-keeper with someone like Alan Knott, Ian Healy, Rodney Marsh or Jeffrey Dujon.

For me personally its a choice between Adam Gilchrist and Alan Knott. The comparison between the 2 is very difficult. In Gilchrist youve got someone who averaged close to 50 in Test cricket, and was a class wicket keeper to boot, and in Knott youve got lower standards of batting, but arguably the greatest keeper to ever stand behind the stumps. Personally, having seen so much of Adam Gilchrist, the choice has to go to him.

Gilchrists batting just helped revolutionise the world game, especially in ODi cricket. Gilchrist averaged 47 with the bat, in the 96 Test matches he played, scoring 17 Hundreds to boot. He also had to keep wicket to the great Shane Warne, no easy task considering the sheer amount of variations in Warnes locker. Gilchrists keeping record is also fantastic. Gilchrist amassed 379 catches and 37 stumpings in his time as Australian wicket keeper, a record only matched/surpassed by South African wicket keeper Mark Boucher. So for me, the wicket keeper has to be Adam Gilchrist, what he lacked in keeping ability he made up with entertainment and batting skill. So batting at number 7 and keeping wicket in my team is Australian keeper Adam Gilchrist.

The Bowlers

Picking 4 bowlers is a very difficult task; I would preferably like 3 pace bowlers and 1 spinner. Picking those bowlers is not going to be easy in the slightest however. A few names automatically spring to mind, those being Sydney Barnes, Shane Warne, Glenn McGrath, Malcolm Marshall, Muttiah Muralitharan and Dennis Lillee. I suppose I better get on with picking a few names.

The first choice Im going to make is for my first of 3 pace bowlers. 1 name really stands out for me when it comes to pace bowlers, and that name is of a West Indian, and the greatest of the 4 main pace men from that great West Indian era, and that is Malcolm Marshall. Malcolm Marshall has the greatest average of any bowler to have taken more than 200 wickets at Test Level. Marshall played 81 Test Matches in his career, taking 376 wickets at an incredibly impressive average of 20.96. His First Class record was even better, with an average of under 20 from 408 matches, taking 1651 wickets. This record is what makes Malcolm Marshall the first bowler to make it into my team.

Now to decide on the second of 3 pace bowlers for my team, and its time for possibly another controversial pick. My pick for my second pace bowler is the great Englishman Sydney Barnes. This could be a surprise choice considering Barnes only played 27 Test matches, but his record in those matches and in his First Class career is something that makes his worthy of being in the team. In Barnes 27 Test Matches, he took 189 wickets, at an astounding average of just 16.43, definitely the most impressive bowling average I have ever seen from a Test Bowler. His First Class stats are similarly as impressive, playing 133 matches, taking 719 wickets at an average of just 17.09.

The third and final Pace bowler for my team is another difficult choice, but one I am happy to make. The first of my 2 choices are both Fast-Medium bowlers, neither were out and out quick, and it is for that reason that I have decided to plump for an out and out pace bowler as my final choice. Pace is something that can put the fright into any batting line-up and any batsman, and there are a number of bowlers I could consider, from guys like Jeff Thomson and Dennis Lillee, to Wasim and Waqar and then to modern greats like Allan Donald and Shoaib Akhtar. For me, the greatest out and out pace bowler has to be Wasim Akram. He had everything, he could bat abit, had tremendous pace, could swing the ball both ways, and also helped bring Reverse Swing into the forefront of the game. His test figures are tremendous, playing 104 Test matches, taking 414 wickets at an impressive average of 23.62. Wasim Akram really was a tremendous bowler, and rightly deserves a place in my team.

The final position for me to consider in my team is the position of the spin bowler. This is going to be one of the more difficult decisions in the make-up of this team. There are of course 2 stand out candidates for the position, those are of course Shane Warne and Muttiah Muralitharan. They sit atop the Test Wicket Taking record table with over 700 apiece. Picking between them is going to be incredibly difficult though. In Warne youve got a conventional but incredibly talented Leg-Spinner, and in Muralitharan youve got an extrovert off-spinner with a very interesting, and often criticised bowling action. I think the man that is standing out for me most has to be Shane Warne. This is purely for 1 reason and 1 reason only, their records in Australia. Australia is notably a difficult place to bowl for a spinner, and yet Warne did the majority of his bowling in the country. Muralitharans record in Australia is far from impressive, averaging above 75 for each wicket, and that is purely the only thing that is keeping Murali out of the side. So for that reason alone, my choice of spinner is the great Blonde Bamboozler Shane Warne.

Conclusion

Well, that has been a very fun and interesting journey since the start, and its been something Ive enjoyed greatly. Ive actually found the selections far easier than I first thought I would. Im sure I will have people disagreeing with various selections, but at the end of the day Ive had hundreds of years of history and thousands of world class players to choose from, and in my eyes this is the greatest team I can come up with. Im open to discussion regarding my selections, so if you have any thoughts, counter arguments or any points of interest then feel free to get in touch. But, to finish of the article, here is my final XI:

Sir Jack Hobbs
Herbert Sutcliffe
Sir Donald Bradman
Sir Vivian Richards
Graeme Pollock
Sir Garfield Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Wasim Akram
Sydney Barnes
Malcolm Marshall


Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoyed my article.

Wow great minds think alike!!
Again that's more or less what I would have chosen. I've actually created all of these, except for Gilchrist, in the new Ashes Cricket 09 game! I may have been tempted to slip Barry Richards in in place of Herbert Sutcliffe although his average (which actually was in the mid 60s right up until his last couple of games) speaks volumes for his ability to stick around and see the new ball off. I presume you didn't consider Barry Richards because of his lack of a lengthy career? Possibly fair enough, but having seen footage of him at his best and reading accounts of him from people like Bradman himself I'm convinced he was very special. Also, I didn't enjoy watching Gavaskar's admittedly watertight defence, purely from an entertainment point of view and would rank Hayden ahead of him. Still I wouldn't argue (too much!) with Sutcliffe as an opening partner to Hobb's
The four knights, Hobbs, Viv, Garry and the Don, no comment needed. All awesome!!!!!
Pollock v Lara v Tendulkar hmmmmmm. None of the three would let you down. Again shame politics robbed Pollock (like Barry Richards), and the rest of us, of a long and exciting career.
I might just include the Sri Lankan pairing of Sangakarra and Murali in place of the more fashionable Gilchrist and Warne. Look at the figures they don't lie over careers as long as these greats have had. Admittedly there would be enough batting to possibly opt for the (arguably) slighty better gloveman in Gilchrist.
Marshall: watched alot of him in the eighties and i've never heard him described as FAST-MEDIUM. He wasn't tall and didn't create the consistent bounce of, say, Joel Garner but he was lightening quick. Very sharp action and delivered skiddy fast paced balls with pin-point acuracy and movement in or out, as well as a dangerous bouncer when he was feeling nasty. He was awesome and would definately make my team also.
I read that Barnes was somewhere in the region of Derek Underwood pace wise, although could rip one through if the circumstance dictated it. All of his contempories seemed to place him at the very top of all of the bowlers that they had seen. He could swing and spin (definately spin, not cut) the ball both ways and mesmerised batsmen like no other in his era. I forget where i read this, and I might have this slighly wrong, but when he was in his 50s or early 60s he played against the touring West Indies team (sometime in the 30s I think) and tied them in knots, taking a hatfull of wickets very cheaply. Pure class, the Bradman of bowlers...... and English!
Akram also a great choice partly because he is left handed and would therfore add a nice balance to the attack, but mainly because of his awesome talent. Like Marshall and Barnes could swing or seam the ball both ways and land it on a sixpence. I'll never forget the two balls he dismissed Allan Lamb and Chris Lewis with in the 1992 World Cup final. Both broke in different directions, were unplayable and because they were produced at such a crucial time of the game (and it being the world cup final for God's sake!) they demonstrated just what a big time player Wasim Akram really was.

My Team

Sir Jack Hobbs
Barry Richards
Sir Don Bradman (c)
Sir Viv Richards
Graeme Pollock
Sir Garry Sobers
Kumar Sangakkara (wk)
Wasim Akram
Malcom Marshall
Muttiah Muralitharan
Sydney Barnes

12th man: Brian Lara

What a team!!!!
 
All Time India XI

Sunil Gavaskar
Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
MS Dhoni +
Kapil Dev
Anil Kumble
Zaheer Khan
Javagal Srinath
BS Chandrasekhar

Thoughts?
 

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