Ashes 2013 - Australia tour of England June/August 2013

[barmyarmy]

Can people remember that this is the tour thread not the match one so discussion of David Warner being sent on the A tour goes here but posts about the 1st test at Trent Bridge go in the pinned thread.

 

[Owzat]

Haddin missing a catch...business as usual.

The C5 team put it down I think as a "quarter chance", it was a clear chance if I'm thinking of the one he very nearly got a glove on.




As for the day's play, neither England nor the aussies seemed to want to take the bull by the horns. The aussies were a bit all over the shop at times, England batsmen seemed not to want to make a big score.

At times England were well placed to make what I think would be a decent total on this pitch, 300+ . How many got in and got out? All scores of 13-48, everyone at least got a bit of a start in the top six, 167 runs between them.

Good to see the aussies effectively playing a four man attack, I think Smith might well have bowled had he been needed, but five bowlers would not have done much better of a job than was done.

While C5 was applauding the inclusion of Agar, I'm not so sure. I mean it looks like there's something in it for the seamers, Smith and Clarke are in the side, and he's a young kid. Not sure there was a lot to be gained him playing other than experience, and are the aussies strong enough to carry him?

And just as the last six wickets fell for 37 runs, a poor effort from England, they bounced back by ripping the aussie top order to pieces. I don't rate Smith as a batsman, or all-rounder for that matter, but he's got over half the runs. His career average is a moderate 35.23, although that may include the current score which could end any time soon. It's around 30 runs per innings, his bowling average begs the question if he will ever become and all-rounder or will the aussies use him sparingly.

Have to laugh at C5 calling him and Hughes "young", 24 isn't that young. All is comparative, but I think "still only 24" might have been more descriptive.



Today's session is crucial. England will want a couple of early wickets and ideally not to be bowling much after lunch if they don't polish the last six aussie wickets off as quickly as they cut through the first four. The aussies I would think would settle for a small deficit, if they got to 180 I think they'd be reasonably happy.

They might want a lead, but whether the remaining batsmen in Smith, Hughes, Haddin, Siddle, Pattinson, Starc and Agar can muster over 140 runs when the 10 batsmen out in the match so far have made 196 between them remains to be seen and, in my book, more unlikely than likely.

Oh and I think Cook missed at least a couple of "tricks" or showed poor captaincy. Firstly Prior should have been given instructions before he went out to bat on how to approach his innings. I can understand Broad getting carried away once he'd got a few runs, but Prior's wicket was key and some of the dismissals were missing their "iss" ie were dismal

And the second was bowling Finn too long, he probably got overexcited about taking early wickets, and factored in Broad being unlikely to bowl, but you can't wear your bowlers down because you want to persist with quicks. If Finn had broken down England could have been in serious trouble.

Yawn made that same mistake when enforcing the follow on back in 2005, it's not hindsight re losing Jones to injury, but it is one reason why you bat again, to rest your bowlers and try to make sure you have enough runs that you can keep attacking fields.

 

[sifter132]

Haddin missing a catch...business as usual.

Annoying that during his time out of the team people forgot how inconsistent his glovework was.
Now people seem to think he is "experienced", and "reliable", because he is old, and his keeping has taken on some Ian Healy like mystique.
He is a better batsman under pressure than Wade, and a better keeper, but he is in the team for his batting, and always was, his keeping is dodgy.
Anyone remember him missing 3 stumpings in the same ODI v England just before he was dropped from the team?
Was par for the course.

From my memory, there was a stage 2-3 years ago where Haddin really improved his glovework - and that was due to an uninterrupted offseason (no finger injuries), and some remedial technique work. Might have been around 2010/11. The previous summer everyone was more focused on how awful Kamran Akmal's keeping was to notice Haddin's subpar work. I haven't seen enough of Haddin recently to see whether those improvements have 'stuck'. He seems to be watching the ball into the gloves well though generally, and I'd back him in a keep-off with Wade, particularly vs spin. The bowlers weren't helping him last night, plenty of wide deliveries, and some swing and dip late.

 

[Owzat]

Had a sneaky feeling a wagging tail might be England's biggest obstacle, even if I didn't say it.

 

[Owzat]

Good grief, the aussies are in front! I was thinking this morning we aren't the best at bowling out the tail when they don't just roll over, but that is going some. 111 for the last wicket, our last six went down for 67

 

[Owzat]

Where is everyone? Would have thought the aussies would be cock a hoop.

England are getting in a bit of a whinge about the review system, don't blame them too much as the system is being applied weakly with this whole "umpire's call" a joke. Say the ball hitting the stumps is "umpire's call", it should be the same for the delivery whether the umpire called out or not out, so how can the same delivery be out and not out if you see what I mean? It should come out with a single, INDEPENDENT (of the umpire's considered decision) call and ascertain INDEPENDENTLY if it was out or not.

Not so happy they've made it a whinge, but they do need to sharpen up the process. You sometimes get a rough decision, Trott could have played the ball a lot better and not had to rely on the cavalry arriving to save him. I noticed on C5 highlights by the way they didn't even bother showing if one decision was out via gimmickery, I mean technology. Think that was the Root strangle. I think the stumping was a bad decision, but then that decision isn't made by gimmickery.

England should have got 'agar the 'orrible out a lot sooner, but they often don't know whether to stick or twist, bowl line and length, bounce the lower order out, or just get carried away with "you miss, I hit" theory. They bowled too straight, too short without being "right up and at 'im", or just put it there to hit. And of course they don't know whether to bowl spin or pace, they just don't know what to do

It's no coincidence England have now conceded the two highest scores by a number 11 in two summers. They let the game get away with them, sounds like they might have had a bit of a sulk on over the stumping.

England will need to bat 2-3 more sessions minimum I think, and see if they can get Tuffers out in the nets as practice for bowling at Agar (just kidding, he looks much better than his batting slot, maybe a 7 or 8) If the aussies have England five down before midway through the afternoon and I think we could be in trouble. Not sure how much Broad can fully bowl, probably not a lot and is it worth a) risking it from an injury point of view, and b) chancing he doesn't just give away runs.

I think from several strong positions through the match, England have tailed off (excuse the pun) and the aussies have risen to the challenge. England lost their last six wickets for 37 I think it was in the 1st innings, the aussies put on over half their runs for the last wicket. If this were tortoise and hare, no prizes for guessing which England are.

I just trust they won't blame it all on reviews, just because you didn't get a wicket you think you should have had, and lose one you don't think you should have, you have to get on with it.

 

[sifter132]

Where is everyone? Would have thought the aussies would be cock a hoop.

We were cock a hoop haha, but over in this thread :http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/ashes-2013-14/1st-test-england-v-australia-nottingham-jul-10-14-2013-a-84940-11.html

it gets hard to find if you come through the forums from cricket discussion...

 

[Left_Hander]

Not sure if this thread is for talk about the match or in between matches, but anyway...

I think after having England 2/11 it would have been nice to have taken at least one more wicket before stumps last night. I didn't mind the English approach in the way that they were more intent on survival than scoring quickly, which given how much time left in the game, they can afford that.

As usual, the first session tomorrow will be so important. Two or more wickets to Australia and we'll be in charge. Love how every session is so important and they seem to be hard fought.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

As usual, the first session tomorrow will be so important. Two or more wickets to Australia and we'll be in charge. Love how every session is so important and they seem to be hard fought.

I don't agree - Swann's going to make your heads spin on that pitch. Agreed 100% about the competitive nature of this match though.

----------

Had a sneaky feeling a wagging tail might be England's biggest obstacle, even if I didn't say it.

Fortunately these days, England's tail is good at wagging as well.

 

[TheNameisNiru]

hope Clarke's gonna drop Cowan & bring in Warner

 

[sifter132]

Don't think Warner will be back until the 3rd Test at the earliest. The selectors want to get Warner some time in the middle before he's selected, and that's what he'll get with Australia A.

Cowan is on thin ice, but I'm not sure I'd turf him after just 1 Test. With 9 Tests ahead, it would make players a bit nervous if selectors are dropping guys after 1 bad game in a long series. I'd give Ed one more Test, maybe swap him down to #5 and get Hughes up to #3 so Hughes doesn't have to start vs Swann.

Of course Usman Khawaja is the odd man out there. Will probably come down to an old fashioned 'bat off' in the tour game vs Sussex between Khawaja, Cowan and Warner.

 

[War]

Don't think Warner will be back until the 3rd Test at the earliest. The selectors want to get Warner some time in the middle before he's selected, and that's what he'll get with Australia A.

Cowan is on thin ice, but I'm not sure I'd turf him after just 1 Test. With 9 Tests ahead, it would make players a bit nervous if selectors are dropping guys after 1 bad game in a long series. I'd give Ed one more Test, maybe swap him down to #5 and get Hughes up to #3 so Hughes doesn't have to start vs Swann.

Of course Usman Khawaja is the odd man out there. Will probably come down to an old fashioned 'bat off' in the tour game vs Sussex between Khawaja, Cowan and Warner.

But Sifter my friend Cowan is not on thin ice just because of his 1st test failure - its his entire career on mediocrity. In case you didn't realize his average average it reached 35 just keeps going down.

Lets not forget why Cowan was picked - because youngsters like Marsh, Hughes, Khawaja didn't step up, so we thought Cowan who was scoring heavily in FC could come in like a similar older player with years of FC experience and make big runs they way Hussey, Katich, Lehmann did back in the days.

He hasn't done that, he has been very mediocre, one hundred on a Adelaide road and has been worse than even Marcus North. AUS have gotten every inch out of his limited ability - its time to back the young players and send Cowan to the scrap heap.

 

[Left_Hander]

But Sifter my friend Cowan is not on thin ice just because of his 1st test failure - its his entire career on mediocrity. In case you didn't realize his average average it reached 35 just keeps going down.

Lets not forget why Cowan was picked - because youngsters like Marsh, Hughes, Khawaja didn't step up, so we thought Cowan who was scoring heavily in FC could come in like a similar older player with years of FC experience and make big runs they way Hussey, Katich, Lehmann did back in the days.

He hasn't done that, he has been very mediocre, one hundred on a Adelaide road and has been worse than even Marcus North. AUS have gotten every inch out of his limited ability - its time to back the young players and send Cowan to the scrap heap.

Cowan's century was at the Gabba

 

[sifter132]

Cowan is the pure definition of a mediocre player - dead right. But he fits right in in this Aussie team...just nobody around It's just a matter of whether you're the 'talented, but can't score for ----' type of mediocre (Watson, Warner, Khawaja, Shaun Marsh), or the 'honest county level grinder' type of mediocre (Cowan, Rogers, Smith, Bailey, Doolan, Klinger etc)

The only player who ISNT mediocre is Michael Clarke.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Cowan is the pure definition of a mediocre player - dead right. But he fits right in in this Aussie team...just nobody around It's just a matter of whether you're the 'talented, but can't score for ----' type of mediocre (Watson, Warner, Khawaja, Shaun Marsh), or the 'honest county level grinder' type of mediocre (Cowan, Rogers, Smith, Bailey, Doolan, Klinger etc)

The only player who ISNT mediocre is Michael Clarke.

That's the problem. Before, you had Langer, Hayden, Ponting, Waugh, Waugh, Gilchrist - all world class players (and that's before we get onto the bowlers). Now, the only guy you can truly rely upon is Clarke, and he isn't delivering so far.

It's quite funny to watch really; come on, did you really expect sympathy from me after all the times I've watched the aforementioned team trash England?

It's going to be a long, long summer and a long, long winter for Australia.