Australia in South Africa Oct-Nov 2011/12

[StinkyBoHoon]

Haddin, Johnson, Siddle were completely useless. Especially Johnson. BRING in copeland and cummins. I cannot believe Australia were bowled out for 47. I don't think anyone will be not surprised with that.

It's like when Johnson tore Sth Africa apart last time. We got the taste of it. And we can't put up with it.

a unusual, but not at all uncommon, reaction to a terrible defeat, your bowling attack skittles south africa for 96, then your batsmen get all out for 47 (staring the worst ever total in history in the face) and yet you want whole sale changes to the bowling line up?

I agree the australian bowling line up is a very iffy unit, but it was not what lost you this match.

 

[Sedition]

Judging by the numbers, Siddle and Johnson should be at their best when we play Saf. Siddle's average and economy is actually better in Saf than at home. Johnson is pretty much the same in Saf as home.
Even if they pull something out in the second test, I can't justify picking either of them for the India series.

 

[stefan]

IF the Saffers have any brains they'll turn out another green top, but a road will ensure the series for them anyway. And that will have all our lairy batsmen a lot more in their comfort zone so they can say that the collapse was a one off.

a Green pitch imho helps the aussie attack more and keeps them in the game. Reckon Steyn and morkel are much more capable on flat tracks then their aussie counterparts. Also even though he hasn't showed it yet at test level I reckon we have the edge in spin.

Wanderers will be quick and will have bounce. Genereally helps the seamers and legspinners. Both warne and kumble have very good records at the ground, doesn't help the finger spinners much.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

a Green pitch imho helps the aussie attack more and keeps them in the game. Reckon Steyn and morkel are much more capable on flat tracks then their aussie counterparts. Also even though he hasn't showed it yet at test level I reckon we have the edge in spin.

Wanderers will be quick and will have bounce. Genereally helps the seamers and legspinners. Both warne and kumble have very good records at the ground, doesn't help the finger spinners much.

truuuuee.

the green pitch thinking did them in against india and lets be honest, it should have done them in here.

Steyn and Morkel are the only new ball pair capable of consistently troubling a team on a pitch where 300 is par. why surrender that advantage?

probably the reason why india have held the number 1 spot over a similarly talented south africa for so long is that they understood even in spinning conditions they could bat teams out the game while their opponents would struggle, any batsman in the world can make a ton on a glass track, why give matt prior the opportunity to be tendulkar? while south africa kept preparing green tops serving only to equalise their oppositions attacks with theres.

 

[swacker]

Some questions need to be asked of the batting, we have been bowled out for under 100 three times in our past 12 test.

Sometimes you have to hit bottom to start the process of getting better.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Sometimes you have to hit bottom to start the process of getting better.

Things never do hit rock-bottom though, no matter how appalling the batting is. I expect this top 7 to be playing India.

 

[War]

When top quality quicks get the ball swinging all of the top 8 nation's batsmen struggle.

As Mark Waugh mentioned recently, the last decade or so has seen a plethora of flat pitches and a decline of consistent quality new-ball bowling, as it was between the 70s-90s.

So in a way modern batsmen in recent years with the emergence of Steyn/Morkel, England's pace attack, Asif/Aamir (before they were banned), AUS pace attack on occasions etc have been exposed technically and mentally to such bowling.

Hopefully world bowling stays like this in the coming years, since we will again be able to separate the real batsmen from the FTBs.

 

[Papa_Smurf]

When top quality quicks get the ball swinging all of the top 8 nation's batsmen struggle.

The thing is Australia have collapsed consistently in those conditions over the last 2 years. There were the SCG and Headingley tests against Pak. Then the Boxing Day Ashes test, and now Cape Town.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

When top quality quicks get the ball swinging all of the top 8 nation's batsmen struggle.

As Mark Waugh mentioned recently, the last decade or so has seen a plethora of flat pitches and a decline of consistent quality new-ball bowling, as it was between the 70s-90s.

is this not becoming a bit of an urban myth?

the 80s saw 266 matches with 124 draws.
the 90s saw 347 mathces with 126 draws.
the 00s saw 464 matches with 114 draws.

that shows a massive improvement in the results, the 80s was a draw every other game almost, whereas the 00s it's about one every 4 games.

I think while there was a lack of quality fast bowlers in the 00s (more down to fitness issues and bad luck though, Asif, Akthar, Bond, Malinga, Jones and flintoff should have all had much more impressive careers) the improvement of general bowling skills and spin bowling meant it wasn't exactly easy.

I think sometimes the fact that, in particular, the 80s had such glittering bowling stars disguises the fact that depth wise, it wasn't nearly as good as it seems in retrospect.

 

[War]

The thing is Australia have collapsed consistently in those conditions over the last 2 years. There were the SCG and Headingley tests against Pak. Then the Boxing Day Ashes test, and now Cape Town.

Yes no doubt, mainly due to fact that the quality of batsmen AUS have now compared to the 95-2007 glory years has changed. But in that same two year period how many of the other top 8 nations have had to face top-quality pace attacks in seaming conditions and how have they fared?

----------

is this not becoming a bit of an urban myth?

the 80s saw 266 matches with 124 draws.
the 90s saw 347 mathces with 126 draws.
the 00s saw 464 matches with 114 draws.

that shows a massive improvement in the results, the 80s was a draw every other game almost, whereas the 00s it's about one every 4 games.

I think while there was a lack of quality fast bowlers in the 00s (more down to fitness issues and bad luck though, Asif, Akthar, Bond, Malinga, Jones and flintoff should have all had much more impressive careers) the improvement of general bowling skills and spin bowling meant it wasn't exactly easy.

I think sometimes the fact that, in particular, the 80s had such glittering bowling stars disguises the fact that depth wise, it wasn't nearly as good as it seems in retrospect.

I don't have the time to check the accuracy of those figures of those previous decades.

However even if I take your stats (which i think has some truth to it in any case), I don't see how an improvement of results in the 2000s era, diminishes the point that pace attacks this era in general have been poor and pitches have been flat.

I see the improvements of results as the mirror opposite. With the flat pitches and poor attacks around, international batsmen followed Australia's mantra in tests (along with skills developed from ODIs and T20s) and the scoring rate in those conditions, in tests became 3-4 rpo more consistently compared to 2-2.5 as the case was in the 80s and 90s. Thus attaining a result becomes easier.

Against quality fast-bowling scoring at that rate is extremely difficult and few batsmen right now (especially openers) when the bowling is tough, dont have the skill to be disciplined technically and graft their way out of trouble. They rather hit themselves out of pressure and that's why they struggle in such conditions.

If Flintoff, Bond, Akthar and co were fit enough to play regularly in the 2000s immediately after legends like Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, Wasim, Waqar it would have certainly aided in attacks other than Australia being top-quality world-wide. But them being so injury plagued created the problem.

 

[aussie1st]

a unusual, but not at all uncommon, reaction to a terrible defeat, your bowling attack skittles south africa for 96, then your batsmen get all out for 47 (staring the worst ever total in history in the face) and yet you want whole sale changes to the bowling line up?

I agree the australian bowling line up is a very iffy unit, but it was not what lost you this match.

Thing is we can't make whole sale changes to the batting because we only have one batter and it looks like he'll be replacing our 2nd best batsmen.

 

[aussie1st]

Just remembered Beer is over with the squad. So we have 2 seamers and 1 spinner in reserve compared to 1 batsmen.

 

[angryangy]

You can't make wholesale changes mid-tour.

 

[Sedition]

I don't think anyone expects to see a different side for the second test, especially when the squad doesn't allow for it, but we can all dream. As I mentioned before; Siddle and Johnson are pretty much at their best against Saf in Saf, so it's unlikely Copeland or Cummins will get a shot unless Lyon misses out.

And then for the NZ series.. I'm certain Johnson will be there again considering he averages 16 with the ball against them. So if bowls even half decent, he'll be there for India playing ???? again.

 

[midgetwars]

a unusual, but not at all uncommon, reaction to a terrible defeat, your bowling attack skittles south africa for 96, then your batsmen get all out for 47 (staring the worst ever total in history in the face) and yet you want whole sale changes to the bowling line up?

I agree the australian bowling line up is a very iffy unit, but it was not what lost you this match.

It was the 2nd innings that showed the problems. The inability to take wickets