Australia Team Discussion

[IceAgeComing]

You'll want a second spinner in the squad because you're guaranteed to have at least one terrible wicket of the sort that have plagued England recently, and a second spinner would probably be more useful than a third seamer on those pitches.

Expect dull dead pitches; the only thing resembling a green pitch last year was at Lords against India, and we all know how that ended up

 

[IceAgeComing]

Can anyone tell me why Adam Voges has never played test cricket?

about that...

Ashes Squad (and no i don't know why they are announcing it four months early either, I guess because of the West Indies tour?): Michael Clarke (capt), Steven Smith (vice-capt), Fawad Ahmed, Brad Haddin, Josh Hazlewood, Ryan Harris (Ashes only), Mitchell Johnson, Nathan Lyon, Mitchell Marsh, Shaun Marsh, Peter Nevill, Chris Rogers, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, Adam Voges, David Warner, Shane Watson.

there's also a list of Central Contracts and the two A squads; but you can go to cricinfo to look at them

 

[bigred]

Burns is pretty unlucky there I think. Harris pretty much only plays Ashes cricket now. What a life.

 

[bigred]

I do like the fact that Australia don't see age as a barrier to playing test cricket. It's different to one day cricket, where you are preparing for a 4 year cycle. In test cricket, you might just be looking two series ahead to an Ashes series or a big tour.

Rogers and Voges selection just prove that they are only thinking about cricket this year, and want to get the best eleven players on the field. It does kind of make the 'Pietersen is too old' theory look silly.

 

[spudungeyee]

Aussies always pick the best players for the conditions and they don't mind who they need to drop got to say respect to them for that.

 

[Thomas Saywell]

Aussies always pick the best players for the conditions and they don't mind who they need to drop got to say respect to them for that.

Australian have won the world cup and its time to continue with their good performance in ashes. All the players are in good form. They have good batsman, fast bowlers however weak spin department. But Clark, Smith can accompany Lyon and help to overcome this problem with their part time spin bowling.

 

[cricketmad09]

i don't think the series against WI is going to be a walkover. Slow dry dull pitches, lets remember back to Pakistan. It's not exactly our most favourite conditions. However we will win because WI are terrible. It'll just be closer than people think.

 

[CricketBuffOne]

i don't think the series against WI is going to be a walkover. Slow dry dull pitches, lets remember back to Pakistan. It's not exactly our most favourite conditions. However we will win because WI are terrible. It'll just be closer than people think.

cricketmad09, Aussies look all set to win the first test on day 3 itself. The way the fast bowlers are bowling at the moment, it will be an achievement for WI to take the match to the fourth day.

 

[Aislabie]

Looking at Josh Hazlewood, he's bowling more and more like Stuart Clark. I'm beginning to struggle to see how Ryan Harris can break back into the side at present unless Watson is dropped and they play five bowlers.

 

[Aalay]

It would be a bit silly not to pick a fit Ryan Harris. If Ryan Harris is fit, I would go with Ryan Harris, Josh Hazelwood and Mitchell Johnson. It's not like Ryan Harris will last 5 tests. He is likely to play at max 3 tests in the series. So Starc will come in for the other 2. Starc has been amazing with white ball but I am still not convinced by him in tests. The conditions are likely to favour Starc more than Hazelwood but Hazelwood is more accurate and Mitchell Johsnon just because he has that psychological advantage on England right now.

 

[Aislabie]

Spoiler: Just ignore all of this - it's irrelevant.

There are some big issues being exposed since last this thread was posted in. If we look at the XI from the first Test, there are a lot of players either out, or on their way out, of the side:

Chris Rogers
David Warner
Steven Smith
Michael Clarke
Adam Voges
Shane Watson
Brad Haddin
Mitchell Johnson
Mitchell Starc
Josh Hazlewood
Nathan Lyon

Of course, seam bowling is in rude health, even if Hazlewood and Starc both had poor games, and Johnson is nearly 34.

This is more like the Test team (especially the top seven) that I would like to see take to the field next time:

Cameron Bancroft
David Warner
Shaun Marsh?
Steven Smith
Joe Burns
Peter Nevill
Mitchell Marsh
Mitchell Johnson
Mitchell Starc
Josh Hazlewood
Nathan Lyon

Reserves:
Ryan Carters
Usman Khawaja
Ashton Agar
Peter Siddle


The most worrying thing is than no batsmen are banging the door down. Travis Head and Marcus Stoinis, batting at three an six respectively for the 'A' side, have just one first-class hundred between them in a combined total of 54 first-class matches; 96 innings. You might as well get Ashton Agar to bat at three.

All the batsmen who do score runs and make tons - Rogers, Voges, Ferguson, Klinger, Cowan - are the wrong side of 30.

 

[cricket_icon]

Something I've complained/spoken about over the last 2-3 years is the ageing Australian test set up. It's not just the guys in the team but the guys in the squad and the guys I hear about on the peripheries of selection. Since 2007 and the retirement of McGrath and Warne, and with guys like Hayden, Langer, Ponting retiring a bit before or a bit after 2007, how many young teenagers or twenty-somethings have debuted for Australia? Beyond Cummins, Smith and Starc I can't think of too many. Out of the Ashes squad of, 15 guys is it? 10 are over the age of 30, some of these guys are 35+. How can you prepare for your biggest test series against your biggest test rival with guys who are not only a little too long in the tooth but out of form for months at a time before that series (hi Clarke, Watson and Haddin).

I know Australia isn't the type of side to throw young teens into the lions den and they like their best players to grow in the FC scene but never before have so many players made their debuts or had extended runs in the side in their 30s. Guys like Ponting, McGrath, Waughs, Warne, Hayden et al made debuts in their 20s, early to mid 20s in most cases. As Ian Chappelle said, especially with regards to the batsman, is there a dirth of young batting talent in Australia?

 

[angryangy]

This is the problem I have with "rebuilding". It's picking a guy more because he's 20-something than because he is good. The less good a player is the more likely you will be forced to drop him. So career potential is irrelevant. And when you face a mass exodus, or dare to push it further than necessary, you don't magically come away with half a dozen top young international players. The situation breeds failure and self-doubt. With three of the middle order and Harris gone, I'd actually be begging Chris Rogers to stay on. I also think Voges has been lumped in with the others for getting some cheap scores, but I always felt the shots he was getting out to were a bit uncharacteristic and his actual defence was holding up much better than Clarke or Watson, for example. Voges showed his patience in the end and I think Smith can too.

Picking youth can work if it's sustainable. Australia gained form both by using old players like Harris, Johnson, Haddin and Rogers, but also by making astute gambles on the likes of Warner and Smith. Just carving out and starting the side from scratch is what will keep it mediocre.

 

[Aislabie]

It will be interesting to see the side that Smith takes with him to Bangladesh, and whether they can beat a side which has quietly become something of a force at home.

Here's the 18-man squad that Australia started the series with. At their harshest, the selectors may make some or all of the following changes for the upcoming series. Of course, it's an extreme example, and one that relies on the same sized squad for a much shorter series, but here goes:

Fawad Ahmed Ashton Agar
Michael Clarke Joe Burns
Pat Cummins
Shane Watson Glenn Maxwell
Brad Haddin Matthew Wade
Ryan Harris James Pattinson
Josh Hazlewood
Mitchell Johnson Gurinder Sandhu
Nathan Lyon
Mitchell Marsh
Shaun Marsh Marcus Stoinis
Peter Nevill
Chris Rogers Usman Khawaja
Peter Siddle Sean Abbott
Steven Smith
Adam Voges Callum Ferguson
Mitchell Starc
David Warner

As with all things, the solution is probably somewhere in the middle. I quite like what Sri Lanka have done by taking quite large squads of players with them, with the result that more players get a taste of that environment rather than experiencing it for the first time as a fresh-faced debutant. I'd go with:

Joe Burns
Chris Rogers (or Bancroft, if he can't be persuaded to stay on)
David Warner

Chris Lynn
Usman Khawaja
Steven Smith
Adam Voges

Peter Nevill
Matthew Wade

Mitchell Marsh
Glenn Maxwell

Josh Hazlewood
Mitchell Johnson
James Pattinson
Peter Siddle
Mitchell Starc

Ashton Agar
Nathan Lyon

This pans out with an XI, in Bangladeshi conditions, of:

Rogers / Burns
Warner
Smith
Voges
Burns / Lynn
Marsh / Maxwell
Nevill
Starc
Agar / Pattinson
Hazlewood
Lyon

There's no getting around it, that batting looks flaky.

 

[IceAgeComing]

Doesn't Agar have an abysmal First Class average? Like I know it's Bangladesh and average spinners can do well but I'm sure sure that Agar is international quality as a pure bowler.

I'd stick with Fawad Ahmed but that's because I'm a sicker for leg spin