Australian Tour of India, October 2010/11

[aditya123]

No offence sir. But its clear you dont follow AUS ODI cricket, if this is conclusion you have come to.

No offence again Sir. But its pretty clear that you have`nt read my whole post clearly. I was only replying to someone who said India are weak in home ODIs when they clearly are not as shown by the record of the past 4-5 years. If you read my post carefully, I have ended it by saying that Australia have been the only side to beat us in ODIs in India.

I have followed Aussie ODI cricket for sometime but you cannot deny that Australia`s ODI record in Australia has`nt been the best over the past 3 or 4 years. That is what I was trying to explain. I never said that Australia`s ODI record was bad or anything. What I was saying that India have far from a weak home ODI record while if anything, Australia have had a far from spotless home ODI record over the past 3 or 4 years.

If you have followed Australian ODI cricket in Australia more than I have. as you seem to suggest, you would not ignore the fact that Australia could not win a home ODI series in 2006/7 (lost to ENG),2007/8 (lost to IND) and 2008/9 (lost to SA) in addition to a drawn ODI series against NZ at home in 2009 which they`d have lost if not for the rain affected game at the GABBA.
They have only beaten WI and PAK at home. They have been fabulous in ODIs during this period but their home record has been surprisingly dodgy over the past few years. I only pointed all this out in response to some other post which talked about India`s so-called poor record at home which was in fact untrue.

 

[sholing]

Hope india will win this series...

 

[sifter132]

Well lets see...here's Australia's record against the other top 8 sides from 2007 onwards in ODIs:
Home: 43 games, 26W, 13L, 4N/R. Win: 60.5% of games, W/L ratio: 2.00
Away/Neutral: 60 games, 40W, 18L, 2N/R. Win: 66.7& of games, W/L ratio: 2.22
No massive differences there, but home is slightly worse.

The home losses have mostly little ill-timed rather than worrying. In both 06/07 and 07/08 Australia only lost 1 or 2 of their 8 preliminary games, then went and lost 2 in a row in the final series. Plus they won the World Cup in between those series in VERY convincing fashion. 08/09 v SA and NZ was a bit more troublesome where they lost most of the matches. That was the summer where we hadn't found a trustworthy spinner yet after Hoggy's retirement and we played James Hopes at #8 for extra batting relying on Dave Hussey and Pup Clarke for 10 overs of part time spin. I HATED that team balance and tactics - always will. There were a few other factors: no Brett Lee as well. But it's been pretty obvious to me: after Hauritz established himself in the ODI team we've been much better and since we've stopped playing Hopes at #8 and moved him up to #7 for an extra bowler it's been much better. Oh and Watson getting fit has helped a lot too for balance.

 

[angryangy]

Yeah, trilateral series are not exactly comparable with bilateral series. To lose in the finals can be a much better overall result than some would claim in a couple of shorter series victories.

Eg:

In 06/07, England won the finals series 2-0. The series proper could be summarised like this.
Aus v Eng 3-1
Eng v NZ 2-2
Aus v NZ 4-0

In 07/08, India won the finals 2-0
Aus v Ind 2-1
Ind v Srl 2-1
Aus v Srl 3-1

 

[lethalhughes]

Well lets see...here's Australia's record against the other top 8 sides from 2007 onwards in ODIs:
Home: 43 games, 26W, 13L, 4N/R. Win: 60.5% of games, W/L ratio: 2.00
Away/Neutral: 60 games, 40W, 18L, 2N/R. Win: 66.7& of games, W/L ratio: 2.22
No massive differences there, but home is slightly worse.

The home losses have mostly little ill-timed rather than worrying. In both 06/07 and 07/08 Australia only lost 1 or 2 of their 8 preliminary games, then went and lost 2 in a row in the final series. Plus they won the World Cup in between those series in VERY convincing fashion. 08/09 v SA and NZ was a bit more troublesome where they lost most of the matches. That was the summer where we hadn't found a trustworthy spinner yet after Hoggy's retirement and we played James Hopes at #8 for extra batting relying on Dave Hussey and Pup Clarke for 10 overs of part time spin. I HATED that team balance and tactics - always will. There were a few other factors: no Brett Lee as well. But it's been pretty obvious to me: after Hauritz established himself in the ODI team we've been much better and since we've stopped playing Hopes at #8 and moved him up to #7 for an extra bowler it's been much better. Oh and Watson getting fit has helped a lot too for balance.

Yes good post , Huaritz has been an essential member of our odi team,and with Watto and Hopes as our 5 and 6th bowler this aussie side has really looked strong.Any chance of Steve Smith challenging Hopes and batting at 7 plus providing useful spin in india for the world cup.I still really love Hopes in the team though, very useful player.I can see Australia odi team continuing to be really really strong for atleast the next 10 years with guys like Mitch Marsh, Ferguson,Steve Smith,Shaun Marsh,White, Hazlewood all potential greats in that format.Also Watto ,Bollinger,Johnson and Clarke are still ''fairly young''.

This is my say for the day.

 

[sifter132]

I hope Smith challenges Hopes because he's got more potential than honest ol Jimmy Hopes. Hopes has filled a hole and done pretty well, but I think his weaknesses are starting to show now. So I'd prefer Smith and Watson to be my 5th and 6th bowlers for India especially in the World Cup, and I think we can afford to do that if Watson is bowling well. That way we can adapt to the pitch with 4 fast and 2 spin options (assuming Hauritz plays too). Otherwise if we play Hopes, Watson and the 3 quicks and suddenly discover the pitch is spinning more than expected we've only got Clarkey to bowl extra spin and his back may not be up to it. Or Cameron White I guess...

 

[aussie1st]

This would be the perfect opportunity to try out Smith in preparation for the World Cup. Just another ODI series so we should be looking at options for next years World Cup.

 

[Sobi]

Australians better hope that full Indian squad isn't available. If all the players are back in the squad, Aussies' changes of winning the series will drop from 30% to 5%. I don't know why alot of people think Aussies are that good. I mean they don't suck but Indian team is simply better than them. One thing they will do for sure is when India is owning them then they will start sledging and even a quiet batsman like Dhoni will smash their bowlers all over the ground. Just like Mitchell Johnson got owned last time. Aussies will lose the ODI's and Tests easily. Eventhough they have beaten India at home many times, India have also demolished them easily alot of times at home and also in Australia. This series will go easily to India.
:happyGo India:happy

 

[War]

No offence again Sir. But its pretty clear that you have`nt read my whole post clearly. I was only replying to someone who said India are weak in home ODIs when they clearly are not as shown by the record of the past 4-5 years. If you read my post carefully, I have ended it by saying that Australia have been the only side to beat us in ODIs in India.

I have followed Aussie ODI cricket for sometime but you cannot deny that Australia`s ODI record in Australia has`nt been the best over the past 3 or 4 years. That is what I was trying to explain. I never said that Australia`s ODI record was bad or anything. What I was saying that India have far from a weak home ODI record while if anything, Australia have had a far from spotless home ODI record over the past 3 or 4 years.

If you have followed Australian ODI cricket in Australia more than I have. as you seem to suggest, you would not ignore the fact that Australia could not win a home ODI series in 2006/7 (lost to ENG),2007/8 (lost to IND) and 2008/9 (lost to SA) in addition to a drawn ODI series against NZ at home in 2009 which they`d have lost if not for the rain affected game at the GABBA.
They have only beaten WI and PAK at home. They have been fabulous in ODIs during this period but their home record has been surprisingly dodgy over the past few years. I only pointed all this out in response to some other post which talked about India`s so-called poor record at home which was in fact untrue.

Fair enough. I admit i didn't read that entire post, just found the bolded comment shocking.

But some of those results @ home where AUS lost dont mean much. Except for IND VB Series in 2007/08. The rest dont mean a thing.

- ENG fluked a win in 06/07. Aus domianted that entire series, just pulled of two shock performances in the finals. One of the great ODI series fluke wins.

- vs SA (home & away) & NZ 08/09. Aus had alot of injury problems with key players during these ODI series - thats the main reason why they lost.

So these are not results to take significant notice of.

 

[lethalhughes]

I hope Smith challenges Hopes because he's got more potential than honest ol Jimmy Hopes. Hopes has filled a hole and done pretty well, but I think his weaknesses are starting to show now. So I'd prefer Smith and Watson to be my 5th and 6th bowlers for India especially in the World Cup, and I think we can afford to do that if Watson is bowling well. That way we can adapt to the pitch with 4 fast and 2 spin options (assuming Hauritz plays too). Otherwise if we play Hopes, Watson and the 3 quicks and suddenly discover the pitch is spinning more than expected we've only got Clarkey to bowl extra spin and his back may not be up to it. Or Cameron White I guess...

One important thing you said is that we can afford to have Smith and Watson as our 5th and 6th bowler if Watson is bowling well.Watson has really struggle of late in his last odi appearances.I'm no big fan of Hopes but his done a very consistent job in the odi team, especially bowling wise.If Watson continue to struggle then Hopes will hold on to his spot.But i agree this odi series wouldnt be a bad idea to trial Smith in Hopes spot.Smith control has really improve so he'll be ok i should think.Smith's batting at 7 would be a real bonus.If Watto bowling in odi cricket can get back to the level it was then surely Smith over Hopes.

 

[sifter132]

I think you touched on the key issue: control. If Australia plays Tait, Johnson, Smith and Watson all together in the ODI team, NONE of those guys are particularly accurate or offer consistent control. And assuming Bollinger is the other paceman, he isn't super accurate either, although better at it than the other 4 I'd say. And it wouldn't take much for Hauritz to be hit off his line and length either, particularly if you aren't really attacking the other 5, just waiting for errors.

As for Watson vs Hopes: they offer different things. Watson's become a great wicket taker in ODIs because he almost goads the batsmen to attack him (and because he bowls at the death a lot). Their eyes light up when they see an overly aggressive 130kph part-time bowler because they think they can put him in his place. But Watson's shown he's a little better than that, and he induces a lot of mishits.
Then you've got Hopes who has shown he's a guy who can consistently hit a length and bowl to a field. Those attributes would definitely play in Hopes' favour if there is talk of playing all those guys I mentioned at the top: Tait, Johnson, Smith, as there'd be a crying need for control. But I think he's pretty easy to attack and I'm amazed more people don't try.

 

[lethalhughes]

I think you touched on the key issue: control. If Australia plays Tait, Johnson, Smith and Watson all together in the ODI team, NONE of those guys are particularly accurate or offer consistent control. And assuming Bollinger is the other paceman, he isn't super accurate either, although better at it than the other 4 I'd say. And it wouldn't take much for Hauritz to be hit off his line and length either, particularly if you aren't really attacking the other 5, just waiting for errors.

As for Watson vs Hopes: they offer different things. Watson's become a great wicket taker in ODIs because he almost goads the batsmen to attack him (and because he bowls at the death a lot). Their eyes light up when they see an overly aggressive 130kph part-time bowler because they think they can put him in his place. But Watson's shown he's a little better than that, and he induces a lot of mishits.
Then you've got Hopes who has shown he's a guy who can consistently hit a length and bowl to a field. Those attributes would definitely play in Hopes' favour if there is talk of playing all those guys I mentioned at the top: Tait, Johnson, Smith, as there'd be a crying need for control. But I think he's pretty easy to attack and I'm amazed more people don't try.

Good point, many questions there for the selectors.But it's good that our odi team is heading in the right direction.Should both Johnson and Tait play in the same odi team?When Lee is back fit and bowling well in my opinion he is a must pick.So who makes way for Lee if he does get back on?Bollinger and Harris have both done an excellent job really.Harris might be fit for the odi series.Surely if Harris is fit with his impressive odi record so far he can't be dropped.Harris , Bollinger, Tait, Johnson, Lee are all fine fine odi bowlers( also don't forget MCkay , i think he's really good as well).So out of those guys selectors are gonna have to pick out the 3 best ( ofcourse there is the rotational polacy but i dont like that idea).Honestly i think Tait and Johnson can play in the same odi team.Thats what will happen in india ,which means Hopes got to play over Smith.Bollinger, Tait,Johnson,Hopes, Hauritz, Watson.Harris wont be considered as he wouldnt have much match practise.Thats a pretty strong attack.I believe our best odi attack when everyone is fully fit would be- Lee,Bollinger,Johnson,Hauritz, Watto,Hopes/Smith.Its quite interesting that we got such abaundance of wealth in the bowling department in odi cricket, and our test attack don't quite look as fearsome as our odi attack.

 

[War]

Good point, many questions there for the selectors.But it's good that our odi team is heading in the right direction.Should both Johnson and Tait play in the same odi team?When Lee is back fit and bowling well in my opinion he is a must pick.So who makes way for Lee if he does get back on?Bollinger and Harris have both done an excellent job really.Harris might be fit for the odi series.Surely if Harris is fit with his impressive odi record so far he can't be dropped.Harris , Bollinger, Tait, Johnson, Lee are all fine fine odi bowlers( also don't forget MCkay , i think he's really good as well).So out of those guys selectors are gonna have to pick out the 3 best ( ofcourse there is the rotational polacy but i dont like that idea).Honestly i think Tait and Johnson can play in the same odi team.Thats what will happen in india ,which means Hopes got to play over Smith.Bollinger, Tait,Johnson,Hopes, Hauritz, Watson.Harris wont be considered as he wouldnt have much match practise.Thats a pretty strong attack.I believe our best odi attack when everyone is fully fit would be- Lee,Bollinger,Johnson,Hauritz, Watto,Hopes/Smith.Its quite interesting that we got such abaundance of wealth in the bowling department in odi cricket, and our test attack don't quite look as fearsome as our odi attack.

For sure. Only thing i'd say is that i think we would have to pick Tait over Lee ATS looking ahead to the WC. Since we dont know if & what Lee will come back. If Tait is bowling like how he bowled during the T20 WC & ODIs in ENG - he cant be dropped.

 

[lethalhughes]

For sure. Only thing i'd say is that i think we would have to pick Tait over Lee ATS looking ahead to the WC. Since we dont know if & what Lee will come back. If Tait is bowling like how he bowled during the T20 WC & ODIs in ENG - he cant be dropped.

Yes if Tait's bowling like he did in England( pace,l movement and pretty good control) he can't be dropped.But can Harris be dropped with what his done so far in his odi career?He's been very impressive.I can't help but feel that on current form Harris,Bollinger, Tait > Johnson.Lee bowling well would be better than them all.I just can't see Johnson being dropped , his record is very impressive to and his batting is a real plus in odi.Assuming Lee won't be fit enough, then it would be between Harris , Tait and Bollinger for 2 spots.Any chance of all 4 frontline quicks playing in the same team and Steve Smith at 7 and providing the spin option?Don't think it will happen though with the world cup being in the sub continent but there might be a time soon enough where australia may go down that route, especially if Steve Smith leggies develop as hoped for.

 

[War]

Yes if Tait's bowling like he did in England( pace,l movement and pretty good control) he can't be dropped.But can Harris be dropped with what his done so far in his odi career?He's been very impressive.I can't help but feel that on current form Harris,Bollinger, Tait > Johnson.Lee bowling well would be better than them all.I just can't see Johnson being dropped , his record is very impressive to and his batting is a real plus in odi.Assuming Lee won't be fit enough, then it would be between Harris , Tait and Bollinger for 2 spots.Any chance of all 4 frontline quicks playing in the same team and Steve Smith at 7 and providing the spin option?Don't think it will happen though with the world cup being in the sub continent but there might be a time soon enough where australia may go down that route, especially if Steve Smith leggies develop as hoped for.

Unfortuantely yea it think Harris may have to be the quick to miss out. This would be my Best AUS WC XI:

Watson
Haddin
Ponting
Clarke
White
M Hussey
Smith
Hopes
Johnson
Bollinger
Tait

Backups: Paine, D Hussey, Harris, Haurtiz

Although its the sub-continent (IND especially) i think AUS can get away with not playing Hauritz. In past ODI series AUS have played in IND this 2000s era (2001, TVS Cup 2003, CT 2006, 2007, 2009) along with the first 3 IPL tournaments. Indian pitches at least in ODIs tend to have more batting beauties - than turners TBF. Maybe the matches AUS play in Sri Lanka or Bangladesh they may have to play Hauritz though, since alot of slow turners are present their.