Batting experience in the Next Version

[T.J.Hooker]

Modelling the effect of late movement is pretty important.

McGrath should be vulnerable whether there is movement or not, and especially if there is good pace. Beating Ponting should require a degree of late movement or genuine extra pace at any stage of his innings. Schoolboy banana swing should be a problem for McGrath, but to beat Ponting it's going to have to go fast and late.

Also I really think deviation graphics would really enhance my experience of both batting and bowling.

 

[Langeveldt]

I've hardly batted in a normal DBC match before, (career mode yes), but I have a question as I am thinking of getting involved batting wise.

Does batting suffer from the same generic AI abilities as bowling at AI batsmen does? Am I going to find things significantly more difficult as Tendai Chatara than say David Warner?

 

[cooks1st100]

By having vulnerabilities per innings stage for the batsman, which would determined be a combination of combination of runs scored, balls faced and confidence. The "AI" is only determining the switch to a new stage, the plans for the stage is set by the academy configuration.

To me it just seems very complicated and from a batting point of view how do I know when these stages are changing for me?

Again, rather than vulnerabilities being stated how about going along the cricket captain route but a bit more detailed?

So you would a batsman who's preferences were "legside", "front foot", "pace". Add in a couple of traits: "defensive" "nervous starter". As well as this they have a position and rating, say "opener" and "county".

Having a set up like this in a way would negate having an attribute system as we currently have, instead the preferences, traits, position and rating giving predetermined attributes.

From a human batting perspective, it would be easy to see where your strength's and weaknesses lie.

From the AI bowling perspective a bowling plan will have the following:

Line: Outside-off, offside, stumps, legside
Length: Full, good to full, good, good to short, short
Aggression: Attacking, normal, defensive:
Type: Seam, spin
Ball: 0-20, 20-40, 40-60, 60+

As well as actually being able to set up the plan precisely a la cricket coach.

So the AI just has to pick a plan that most suits the batsman, the while bowling plan aggression would depend on the match situation. Something like this:

Line: Offside
Length: Good to short
Aggression: Attacking
Type: Seam
Ball: 0-20

 

[blockerdave]

I actually think my idea is less complicated, and as a batter you don't necessarily need to know specifically a change in vulnerability has occurred but you should see a change in bowling plan against you.

Also, because you would have 2-4 vulnerabilities you may have different bowlers trying different plans at the same time.

I've not played cricket captain to know what the idea involves: however I think my idea should be scalable in complexity, not put too much burden on AI or on-the-fly processing and give potentially infinite variety.

 

[cooks1st100]

I actually think my idea is less complicated, and as a batter you don't necessarily need to know specifically a change in vulnerability has occurred but you should see a change in bowling plan against you.

Also, because you would have 2-4 vulnerabilities you may have different bowlers trying different plans at the same time.

I've not played cricket captain to know what the idea involves: however I think my idea should be scalable in complexity, not put too much burden on AI or on-the-fly processing and give potentially infinite variety.

I still feel though that aggression will have to be stipulated, otherwise there will be times where a plan will be executed because although it suits the batsman's vulnerabilities, it will not be appropriate to the match situation. Eg: Batman is susceptible against spin, plan has everyone around the bat but the score is 400-2.

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

So all these will be done by BA or user on CA??

 

[cooks1st100]

So all these will be done by BA or user on CA??

I think they should be done by the users. This way the amount of plans available are limitless.

 

[blockerdave]

I still feel though that aggression will have to be stipulated, otherwise there will be times where a plan will be executed because although it suits the batsman's vulnerabilities, it will not be appropriate to the match situation. Eg: Batman is susceptible against spin, plan has everyone around the bat but the score is 400-2.

Yes, team objective (attack, contain, defend) is probably required.

The reason I really like "vulnerabilities" is it gives variety even with the same objective.

So my opener is vulnerable to bowled from a seamer: Bowler A is pushing me on the back foot back of a length with Yorkers thrown in; Bowler B is bowling tight wicket to wicket; first change Bowler C is trying out swingers with the odd few coming back in trying to sneak through the gate.

3 different challenges in pursuit of the same vulnerability, each opening up different "secondary" methods of dismissal, yet the AI needs to be barely more intelligent than now.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

To me it just seems very complicated and from a batting point of view how do I know when these stages are changing for me?

I think it would scale inversely with confidence, or possibly inversely with an averaged value for the timing accuracy of the user input, possibly on a bowler by bowler basis.

A strong shot that works as a weakness early on is pretty common, so I'd say once you've hit that shot well a few times the danger is substantially reduced. The Ponting / KP lbw situation is prob a good example. You might want to target middle and leg early on, but once they've got a few away convincingly through midwicket you really need to find somewhere else to bowl. Likewise, you might want to give a strong driver a few deliveries to attack to see if you can get a nick before he's adjusted to the conditions and got his feet moving, but every time he smokes you for four that window is going to close a bit.

I think I like the idea of vulnerabilities potentially opening up again if you bat badly for a while, as well. Let's say a new bowler comes on and you can't quite get the timing right against him, or you get hit in the ribs or helmet by one of the quicks.

 

[blockerdave]

So all these will be done by BA or user on CA??

Definitely user. There will obviously have to be default OOTB ones both for casual users & for BA to test with prior to release, but BA should leverage the community here to get them and avoid the vast number of unused/unsuitable fields that shipped with DBC

 

[cooks1st100]

I think I like the idea of vulnerabilities potentially opening up again if you bat badly for a while, as well. Let's say a new bowler comes on and you can't quite get the timing right against him, or you get hit in the ribs or helmet by one of the quicks.

This is why I'd like to see confidence playing a bigger part. Low confidence= smaller timing window, sluggish footwork and higher edge probability. Scoring runs, leaving and defending well sees confidence obviously increase, boundaries see a bigger increase, so as confidence increases the timing window increases, footwork becomes quicker and edge probability decreases.

While play and misses, poor leaves( I'll come to this later) and edges will see a decrease in confidence. Getting hit in the body would see a bigger decrease while getting "sconed" would see confidence reduce to zero.

3 different challenges in pursuit of the same vulnerability, each opening up different "secondary" methods of dismissal, yet the AI needs to be barely more intelligent than now.

Even though we differ here and there, I feel both ideas require no more from the AI than currently. Both ideas just require the AI to "mix and match" as such.

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

I think they should be done by the users. This way the amount of plans available are limitless.

Definitely user. There will obviously have to be default OOTB ones both for casual users & for BA to test with prior to release, but BA should leverage the community here to get them and avoid the vast number of unused/unsuitable fields that shipped with DBC

Yeah that would be the way to go...I like this idea very much as well, the depth will become huge if this can be implemented into the game...

 

[cooks1st100]

So now we've got the bowling plan idea rolling, I'd like to talk about another aspect of batting where I feel the game could become much improved. Leaving and defending the ball.

Leaving the ball is as an important part of batting as being able to hit the ball and should be made a bigger part of the game. It needs to be more fluid than the current system and animations which I feel are sluggish.

The system should work so that timing a leave well will see your batsman leave the ball confidently, however timing it late will see your batsman following or prodding at the ball, putting you at risk of edging it as in the following examples




I feel that pressing a button trigger to leave should be mandatory for pro level upwards and that not pressing anything will also see your batsman reacting as above. Either that or an option to toggle on/off


For defending the ball a similar system should implemented but with more focus on being in line with the ball. Playing the wrong line will see your block being played away from body, or your batsman being squared up, once again putting you at risk of edging the ball or the ball going through the gate. Playing it late will result in not getting your head over the ball and therefore pushing at it.

 

[zimrahil]

Interesting ideas about leaving the ball - think this would work well

 

[blockerdave]

The leave idea is excellent, especially the late leave = prod.