Problem: Bowling Experience in the Next Version

[blockerdave]

What I'd like to see is the variation per bowler that I've mentioned that makes differences in the ease of bowling certain deliveries that force you to think about who you're bowling with and how you should bowl.

It would also affect who you bowl to certain batsmen, since the batsman's ability vs different types of bowling, and their approach and shots to different types of bowling should vary. This will affect bowling changes, team selection etc.

And more dynamic settings to change exactly how easy/difficult I'm finding things with a given bowler based on pitch/ball/weather conditions (eg Bowler A has good swing control, bowler B less so & in good swinging conditions it's harder to be accurate with bowler B; make it harder to bowl spin if it's wet because of lack of grip etc.). Vary my timing windows based on confidence/rhythm, if it's a pressure situation then based on how I handle that etc.

This variation per bowler and even with the same bowler in different conditions/situations stops bowling being about muscle memory.

Allied to a better AI that has differing abilities and skills vs different types of bowling which is reflected in available shots; that has risk in playing across the line, that might prod and push and play and miss, that plays appropriately for their skill and temperament and feels differently per opponent then you've really got bowling worth playing.

You can of course hand hold /toggle things on and off etc as required to allow for casual gamers too

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

What I'd like to see is the variation per bowler that I've mentioned that makes differences in the ease of bowling certain deliveries that force you to think about who you're bowling with and how you should bowl.

It would also affect who you bowl to certain batsmen, since the batsman's ability vs different types of bowling, and their approach and shots to different types of bowling should vary. This will affect bowling changes, team selection etc.

And more dynamic settings to change exactly how easy/difficult I'm finding things with a given bowler based on pitch/ball/weather conditions (eg Bowler A has good swing control, bowler B less so & in good swinging conditions it's harder to be accurate with bowler B; make it harder to bowl spin if it's wet because of lack of grip etc.). Vary my timing windows based on confidence/rhythm, if it's a pressure situation then based on how I handle that etc.

This variation per bowler and even with the same bowler in different conditions/situations stops bowling being about muscle memory.

Allied to a better AI that has differing abilities and skills vs different types of bowling which is reflected in available shots; that has risk in playing across the line, that might prod and push and play and miss, that plays appropriately for their skill and temperament and feels differently per opponent then you've really got bowling worth playing.

You can of course hand hold /toggle things on and off etc as required to allow for casual gamers too

Thats nice but how would be show the user who is better at what??

Will it be in the bowler selection list or you select a bowler and look at his skills as a pop up and decide??

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

And @Dutch love that idea of bowling without any buttons for length....Its very realistic approach...But animation and graphical representation should be spot on, if thats possible this would be great way to make bowling to the right path....

 

[blockerdave]

Thats nice but how would be show the user who is better at what??

Will it be in the bowler selection list or you select a bowler and look at his skills as a pop up and decide??

I would guess both.

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

I would guess both.

So would it be like "cannot bowl that ball or variation" or "Can bowl but might result as a bad ball majority of times"...

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

If this is the way for the bowling then I would like the inclusion of these both suggestions...

Features you want to see in next iteration of Big Ant Cricket | Page 93 - Don Bradman Cricket 14 Forum on PlanetCricket Forums

Features you want to see in next iteration of Big Ant Cricket | Page 93 - Don Bradman Cricket 14 Forum on PlanetCricket Forums

The implementation of the ball position graphically on the bottom left or right of the screen would be a great way to show the kind of delivery the bowler is trying to bowl...For depth even moving finger position on the seam would create a great amount of depth and that would create a load of opportunity to experiment in types of deliveries...

 

[blockerdave]

So would it be like "cannot bowl that ball or variation" or "Can bowl but might result as a bad ball majority of times"...

Well obviously it would need a much better implementation than that and i can't see it actually preventing you bowling a certain ball (what would it do? just not deliver a ball?), and how would you develop skills in career mode? but there should be a major penalty in terms of accuracy, speed, movement, rhythm, wicket/edge probability or whatever effects the outcome if you're not bowling to a bowler's strength.

it needs to be sensible - a if seamer who doesn't have an outswinger tries to bowl one, you're likely to see:

• pace might be affected in trying to concentrate on ball/wrist position
• probably more likely to over pitch
• line might suffer
• probably less movement, or exaggerated/uncontrolled movement with variation of that ball to ball
• starts swinging earlier therefore less "dangerous"

it's not simply that he gets less swing than a good outswing bowler.

similarly if you're a swing bowler and you're bowling too short, you'll get much less movement, you might be fatigued quicker from "banging it in", you might be more at risk of no balls from trying to bowl too fast etc.

for a spinner, I'd say line, length and movement/rotation would all be heavily affected by trying to bowl a delivery you're not good at: if it's not materially more difficult for a user to try and bowl a doosra as Graeme Swann than it is when bowling as Murali, and if the final ball moves the same, then the game has got its fundamentals wrong. Exactly the same if the AI Swann and Murali will bowl doosras at the same frequency.

i think the key for me can be explained as simple as this: a good swing bowler (say 65% skill bar or higher) doesn't just swing the ball more than a poor swing bowler (say 35% skill or less) - they may even swing it a little less. what they do is control the accuracy of the swing better, get the swing later, get the swing with no loss of rhythm or pace etc. The game should try and replicate this, rather than 75% = swings it 6 inches, 30% swings it 1 inch.

 

[whiteninness]

These points on swing are related to a point I made earlier that right now it's no harder to bowl a swinging delivery than a straight one.

Everyone who has played cricket knows that just isn't true.

Another aspect is that perhaps with the new ball it should be hard to control the swing. Sometimes I've found myself (in real life) bowling a couple of cross-seam deliveries just to get my line and length right without having the ball swing around crazily.

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

Well obviously it would need a much better implementation than that and i can't see it actually preventing you bowling a certain ball (what would it do? just not deliver a ball?), and how would you develop skills in career mode? but there should be a major penalty in terms of accuracy, speed, movement, rhythm, wicket/edge probability or whatever effects the outcome if you're not bowling to a bowler's strength.

it needs to be sensible - a if seamer who doesn't have an outswinger tries to bowl one, you're likely to see:

• pace might be affected in trying to concentrate on ball/wrist position
• probably more likely to over pitch
• line might suffer
• probably less movement, or exaggerated/uncontrolled movement with variation of that ball to ball
• starts swinging earlier therefore less "dangerous"

it's not simply that he gets less swing than a good outswing bowler.

similarly if you're a swing bowler and you're bowling too short, you'll get much less movement, you might be fatigued quicker from "banging it in", you might be more at risk of no balls from trying to bowl too fast etc.

for a spinner, I'd say line, length and movement/rotation would all be heavily affected by trying to bowl a delivery you're not good at: if it's not materially more difficult for a user to try and bowl a doosra as Graeme Swann than it is when bowling as Murali, and if the final ball moves the same, then the game has got its fundamentals wrong. Exactly the same if the AI Swann and Murali will bowl doosras at the same frequency.

i think the key for me can be explained as simple as this: a good swing bowler (say 65% skill bar or higher) doesn't just swing the ball more than a poor swing bowler (say 35% skill or less) - they may even swing it a little less. what they do is control the accuracy of the swing better, get the swing later, get the swing with no loss of rhythm or pace etc. The game should try and replicate this, rather than 75% = swings it 6 inches, 30% swings it 1 inch.

That's great explanation, there should also be rare chances created off bad balls [mainly in slog overs when batsman are trying to get runs no matter what], but the same should be considered as bad ball during the mandatory powerplay and should go for runs...

 

[Ajh1977]

I am open to the stick controlling length rather than buttons, I agree that it should be dictated by timing the push forward, I hope by doing this you have enough scope to bowl anything from a waist high beamer to a short bouncer.

In regard to bowling swing, I had an idea based on the "Golden Tee" golf game, so if you wanted to bowl in swing you could pull RT down/left then up/right and vice versa for out swing (rh bowler). For off/leg cutters down straight then up left/right. Slower balls back then up but not fully up. This sort of control system, would mean you could control the delivery stride with the back motion then release with the forward. Also it would free up the LS to control run up or something else.

With spin I'd keep it pretty similar to how it is now but introduce pace control, maybe have back on RS for slower balls and up for quicker, with left/right for average deliveries, which could also control the flight or drift. So RS down/left would be slow drift, down/right would be slow flight, up/left would be quicker drift and up/right quicker flight. The LS still controls amount of spin, but up it to 5 revs max but make it so if your playing on a dust bowl(assuming pitches make more of a difference than they do now) you could bowl with differing levels of spin rather than having to bowl 3 exact rotations.

 

[Dutch]

So here are a few thoughts I have been playing with as to how to make the whole bowling experience a more satisfying one. I am coming from the point of view of immersion rather than the details of how things would work together....

First part:

Preparation: as a bowler I would need to have info at my disposal that tells me about the batsman coming in. Of course in real life this info is either in my head or the captains head once I am on the field of play but I need some varied statistics so I know what my bowling plan is to this guy.......what have his last five innings been? How did he get out? Does he start fast or conservative? Front or back foot? Strong shots, weaknesses, favorite shots, ......In consultation with the captain determining our line and length on the knowledge of the particular batsmen who is in, the conditions, my own skills as a bowler and which field to set to encompass all of this.......this gives an element of involvement and immersion before a ball has even been bowled and gives me a sense of control over the gameplay.....having made the necessary decisions I can now go about trying to achieve the ball that fits with our plan.....


....more as it comes.....

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

So here are a few thoughts I have been playing with as to how to make the whole bowling experience a more satisfying one. I am coming from the point of view of immersion rather than the details of how things would work together....

First part:

Preparation: as a bowler I would need to have info at my disposal that tells me about the batsman coming in. Of course in real life this info is either in my head or the captains head once I am on the field of play but I need some varied statistics so I know what my bowling plan is to this guy.......what have his last five innings been? How did he get out? Does he start fast or conservative? Front or back foot? Strong shots, weaknesses, favorite shots, ......In consultation with the captain determining our line and length on the knowledge of the particular batsmen who is in, the conditions, my own skills as a bowler and which field to set to encompass all of this.......this gives an element of involvement and immersion before a ball has even been bowled and gives me a sense of control over the gameplay.....having made the necessary decisions I can now go about trying to achieve the ball that fits with our plan.....


....more as it comes.....

This can be assigned to R3 for info of batsman...Full detail can be given in a table kind of pop up with the captain and senior bowler of the team standing alongside in the animation and make them seem like discussing when this pop up comes out for the player to view them...

 

[Langeveldt]

Okay lets take the discussion further: lets be positive and start describing what the ideal bowling experience would look like, perhaps using experiences from previous cricket games if applicable or just using our creativity: we also dont want every ball to be a cruise missile, so how to get the balance right...

For me the mechanics of bowling are pretty spot on; it is the outcome that is so frustrating; however that being said there are a few things I would like to see tweaked to the control mechanics: more control over the run-up.. Not quite sure yet how that can be done but woukd like to feel that my input in the run up is going to have an impact on the quality of the ball leaving the hand....

Speed of release reflected in the pushing of the stick..that I can dictate the speed of the delivery more....

Do away with the length buttons...point of release dictates the length

Some form of control as to how the ball sits in the hand and leaves the hand....yes I can press a button that says I want to bowl with the seam up but how well I achieve that relies on my imput.....

Just a few starters to discuss further... The bowling experience needs to be more like the batting experience...in batting I have a sense of control and imputfrom A to Z ... With bowling this keeps breaking down along the way....

As I've harped on about time and time again, I also want bowling at different players to feel different and to produce a different challenge, something which is completely lacking at the minute, no matter how much you play with attributes.

 

[Dutch]

As I've harped on about time and time again, I also want bowling at different players to feel different and to produce a different challenge, something which is completely lacking at the minute, no matter how much you play with attributes.

We know.....what we want here is a discussion on how that can be improved on in the next version.....

 

[Langeveldt]

I'm not a game developer though, so .. I'm not sure, strength coefficients? Timing windows? invisible bat window sizes?