Problem: Bowling Experience in the Next Version

[Vicbushrangers1]

As a bowler in real life and the fact that I much rather watch my team bowl than bat, it's just woeful as to how unrealistic it is.
1. Ball don't swing right. Where is reverse swing as well. Should also swing more.
2. Why is it the only way I get wickets is by caught mid on/ off unlike real live where the ball is big hooping in swingers to the leftie getting him out lbw or caught.
3. I'm not sure if ba used motion capture or not (they should give us a good look behind the scenes as to how they make it) the bowling style is stupid. Please get someone with a very clean action.
4. Different bowling actions. Really adds to the feel of it being real cricket. 5 would do.
5. I'm gonna stop there. Hire me ba I believe I can offer you something

God if only I had the money to make my own game.

 

[blockerdave]

As I've harped on about time and time again, I also want bowling at different players to feel different and to produce a different challenge, something which is completely lacking at the minute, no matter how much you play with attributes.

well, really the biggest issue for me about why bowling feels so unrewarding is precisely that the AI batting is not fit for purpose. this is evidenced by:

• very little (if any) difference in aggression of varying player types
• no difference in shot availability for varying player types/skill
• very little noticeable difference in difficulty of bowling to players of differing skills
  • perhaps noticeable difference between a 5 and a 3 helmet, but not really between 3 and 2, or 3 and 1
  • unfortunately the difference between 5 and 3 is only shown in uber-aggression of 4 & 5 helmets whatever the player type
  • very overpowered tailenders
• little or no reward for corridor of uncertainty bowling in terms of play and misses, defensive prods, outside edges
• completely different edge probability/risk for human and AI players
• AI has no risk for playing across the line
• ridiculous leave animations - stepping outside leg to ball on 5th stump
• general over powered skills
• no penalty for playing shots that the batsman isn't skilled for

this is exacerbated by the main actual "bowling" frustrations:

• over exaggerated swing
• too much drift, too much bounce, not enough turn for spinners
• not enough feeling of variation in conditions
• a heavy bias in favour of good batting conditions in the RealWorldData^TM
• no feeling of more or less difficulty in bowling deliveries according to the skill of the bowler
• no incentive to bowl to bowler's strengths

and all together that essentially leaves a bowling experience that just really isn't enjoyable. I tried everything - re-skilling, novel formats etc. - to make bowling feel rewarding and allow me to play full "longer format" games but failed. I either didn't finish games, simmed, or got through the bowling innings through endurance.

it was a great shame that for all the improvements that were made in the PC updates - and the game is much the better for it - AI batting was generally untouched when it really is the game's weakest area by miles. it's the biggest question mark about the sequel - can BA deliver a decent AI?

None of the bowling mechanics/physics/skills tweaks mentioned in this or other threads will amount to a hill of beans if the AI batting isn't fundamentally fixed.

 

[Vicbushrangers1]

I Got an idea, instead of choosing in swing or leg cutter, why not be in control of seam position and finger placement. Could be done. I think cricket 04 did something like that.

 

[Langeveldt]

it was a great shame that for all the improvements that were made in the PC updates - and the game is much the better for it - AI batting was generally untouched when it really is the game's weakest area by miles. it's the biggest question mark about the sequel - can BA deliver a decent AI?

None of the bowling mechanics/physics/skills tweaks mentioned in this or other threads will amount to a hill of beans if the AI batting isn't fundamentally fixed.

If anything the updates diminished from the game.. Remember the edges before the final patch? Thick and thin? I noticed far less after all the patches for some reason..

And yeah I agree with your larger post. So much so that AI batting is the only thing I would want fixed.. I know people want a better experience but I think the game is complete apart from AI batting

 

[cooks1st100]

well, really the biggest issue for me about why bowling feels so unrewarding is precisely that the AI batting is not fit for purpose. this is evidenced by:

• very little (if any) difference in aggression of varying player types
• no difference in shot availability for varying player types/skill
• very little noticeable difference in difficulty of bowling to players of differing skills
  • perhaps noticeable difference between a 5 and a 3 helmet, but not really between 3 and 2, or 3 and 1
  • unfortunately the difference between 5 and 3 is only shown in uber-aggression of 4 & 5 helmets whatever the player type
  • very overpowered tailenders
• little or no reward for corridor of uncertainty bowling in terms of play and misses, defensive prods, outside edges
• completely different edge probability/risk for human and AI players
• AI has no risk for playing across the line
• ridiculous leave animations - stepping outside leg to ball on 5th stump
• general over powered skills
• no penalty for playing shots that the batsman isn't skilled for

this is exacerbated by the main actual "bowling" frustrations:

• over exaggerated swing
• too much drift, too much bounce, not enough turn for spinners
• not enough feeling of variation in conditions
• a heavy bias in favour of good batting conditions in the RealWorldData^TM
• no feeling of more or less difficulty in bowling deliveries according to the skill of the bowler
• no incentive to bowl to bowler's strengths

and all together that essentially leaves a bowling experience that just really isn't enjoyable. I tried everything - re-skilling, novel formats etc. - to make bowling feel rewarding and allow me to play full "longer format" games but failed. I either didn't finish games, simmed, or got through the bowling innings through endurance.

it was a great shame that for all the improvements that were made in the PC updates - and the game is much the better for it - AI batting was generally untouched when it really is the game's weakest area by miles. it's the biggest question mark about the sequel - can BA deliver a decent AI?

None of the bowling mechanics/physics/skills tweaks mentioned in this or other threads will amount to a hill of beans if the AI batting isn't fundamentally fixed.

This x100.

Some great points and ideas have been made on this thread.

On the point of conditions, I'd like to see breeze/wind being a bigger factor and having a positive/ negative impact on bowlers depending on how it is utilised. Bowling with the wind would favour fast bowlers, whereas bowling into the wind would help swing and drift but have an impact on pace depending on the wind speed. Similarly with the wind blowing across the wicket. This should also change in strength and direction as a match progresses.

Heat should also have a bigger impact on a bowler's stamina causing us to have to manage our bowlers. Over-bowling should lead to a decrease in effectiveness, a longer recovery period while in the field and a chance of injury.

 

[blockerdave]

And yeah I agree with your larger post. So much so that AI batting is the only thing I would want fixed.. I know people want a better experience but I think the game is complete apart from AI batting

i wouldn't say complete, but equally delivering DBC14 as is plus a good batting AI would provide a better game than adding all the other stuff but leaving the AI as poor.

 

[Dutch]

What I hope from this thread is that we dont have another dbc14 bashing thread; been there, bought the t-shirt, wore it, gave it to Oxfam.....keep positive about how we would give form to a satisfying bowling experience; perhaps it coukd help Matt and BA to try and implement things....describe the aspects that will make a satisfying bowling experience....

 

[grkrama]

yeah I agree with your larger post. So much so that AI batting is the only thing I would want fixed.

Wouldnt fixed apply to a patch than a new iteration of the game.

I wouldnt just want a DBC 14 + ImprovedAI for DBC 15.


DBC14 was a great start but i can see improvements to all areas that can make a better DBC15 not just a minimal AI improvement which im sure BA are also not the type to do.

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

This x100.

Some great points and ideas have been made on this thread.

On the point of conditions, I'd like to see breeze/wind being a bigger factor and having a positive/ negative impact on bowlers depending on how it is utilised. Bowling with the wind would favour fast bowlers, whereas bowling into the wind would help swing and drift but have an impact on pace depending on the wind speed. Similarly with the wind blowing across the wicket. This should also change in strength and direction as a match progresses.

Heat should also have a bigger impact on a bowler's stamina causing us to have to manage our bowlers. Over-bowling should lead to a decrease in effectiveness, a longer recovery period while in the field and a chance of injury.

Great point would be a great addition and this should also be notified by commentary saying "This NAME OF THE BOWLER has the best ability to bowl consistent outswinger and the wind blowing from right to left now, pavilion side would be the ideal side he should be bowling" something like that...Making a combination of info and an ability to get better results from commentary would make commentary important part of the game as well...

 

[chaman82]

Only for pacers.

Step 1.
Holding ball in hand resulting in type of delivery.

A big close up picture of ball in bowlers hand with both las and ras controlling the way the ball is held. Should result in many types of deliveries.

Step 2.
Runup. Running of a bowler.

Continous Las up n down movement determines the runup . can b slow or fast effecting bowlers ryhthm.( setting up of run up steps should also b there)

Step 3.
Jump n release

Ras. Same as now .Release should determine the lenght and line.
+
Las direction and movement speed controls the wrist/finger movement. Resulting in cutters slower delivery etc.

 

[blockerdave]

What I hope from this thread is that we dont have another dbc14 bashing thread; been there, bought the t-shirt, wore it, gave it to Oxfam.....keep positive about how we would give form to a satisfying bowling experience; perhaps it coukd help Matt and BA to try and implement things....describe the aspects that will make a satisfying bowling experience....

i'm certainly not looking to bash DBC; equally i think any discussion of how to improve the bowling in DBC Next that doesn't look at how the AI bats is missing a big part of the equation.

 

[blockerdave]

Wouldnt fixed apply to a patch than a new iteration of the game.

I wouldnt just want a DBC 14 + ImprovedAI for DBC 15.


DBC14 was a great start but i can see improvements to all areas that can make a better DBC15 not just a minimal AI improvement which im sure BA are also not the type to do.

i think the key point however is that AI especially in how it bats must be the priority improvement.

from that you get better bowling experience, better career batting partners so you've improved gameplay in every mode.

 

[Dutch]

That wasn't targeted to you, you have some good and constructive ideas, or anyone in particular but more a wish to try and stop this thread like many other threads turning into one boring moan about what aint working.......I think we have a chance to really offer some constructive possibilities as to what would constitute a satisfying bowling experience from before we start a match to gloating over all the stats afterwards.....and all in between.....what do we need: yes an effective AI, yes effective skills, yes effective fielding, yes effective physics......what else and how?

So i am trying to think how I can be just engaged as a bowler as i am as a batter.....I feel that as a batter I am vastly more immersed in the game than as a bowler......this is only in part due to the ineffectiveness of the gameplay......I am trying to conjure up ideas in my head of what would give me that real sense of involvement from a bowling point of view......so not just the result of a ball played but the whole mechanics and gameplay leading up to that.....if you get what I mean.....if I get what I mean....if.....I.....mmmmm

I want to feel in charge of the delivery I am bowling.....the controls in DBC allow that far more than any game has done so far but could be taken much further....it is still very geared towards a ball played and the qualities that the ball has after pressing a few buttons, instead of me really having to use skill and balance and timing and momentum to produce the right line an length and type of delivery..... after that there needs to be an effective AI and skills and physics and fielding which in that ball played is further taken account for, but the ball delivered is truly my input and skill or lack of.....


.......with batting I have much more the sense that it is really my input that is controlling the outcome to a far greater extent than with bowling......that after that gameplay in terms of physics and fielding is sometimes disappointing and needs to be worked on is, is very clear, but the level of input is more immersive....

So imagine that all the skills and attributes and fielding and everything is spot on.....how could bowling mechanisms be worked on so that there is that level of control and immersion..

 

[grkrama]

i think the key point however is that AI especially in how it bats must be the priority improvement.

from that you get better bowling experience, better career batting partners so you've improved gameplay in every mode.

yup certainly AI improvement or re-haul is super important i just wouldnt want it as the only thing improved for the next iteration as per langvelts post

 

[grkrama]

One of things i would like is see the bowler run up tied to analog trigger, so i can decide the kind of exertion i want to put on the delivery this tied with stamina, so say i go with a burst 150s for 3-4 overs i must get totally drained, depending on the bowler stamina level.

In case the bowler is in rythm this stamina reduction can be may be slightly lower so the 3-4 over becomes say 4-6 overs depending on bowler, also we can have bowlers who are work horses like siddle etc for them the exertion should have least effect on stamina but may be affect the accuracy slightly.


Also a bowler not in rhythm exerting too much is more likely to bowl say a beamer or wayward ball.

[ i would like it to work like a accelerator so if i half press the bowler puts speed into his run up slowly gradually, on full press he exerts rapidly and quickly like akthar or lee, this can be used as tactical measure too as in say for bowlers who start gradually in run up but 3/4 th in exert a lot on the crease and send in fast one]