We need to get Cook and KP out early to even stay in the game. I just saw the highlights and Zaheer is not looking dangerous even though ball is swinging(reverse) a bit and Ashwin also has been disappointing so far in the series.
England in India - Oct to Jan 2012/13
- Thread starter barmyarmy
- Start date
For that, India need to restrict England to a lead of 100-130. If they can do that, then they will be buoyed by the weekend crowd and can possibly set England a tight target. But we can be encouraged by the fact that, in that 2001 test, Australia completely dominated the first two days of the test at Eden Gardens only for India to come from behind and win it incredibly. And here, we are not even as bad as we were at the end of Day 2 against Australia in 2001.
shravi
National Board President
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2005
- Profile Flag
- India
I know it's a bit knee-jerk, but I don't think Ashwin's made for international cricket. At least, not at this stage. After the first innings of the first test, England have worked him out and he's had no answers. He has a lot of variations, he's accurate, and he's not afraid to flight the ball, but it is those variations which work against him. He doesn't know how to out-think a batsman. He doesn't have a game-plan. He just thinks that if he bowls enough varieties of the same ball, the batsman will eventually get himself out. It might work in T20s, but test matches are a whole different ballgame (seemingly obvious).
Ashwin can definitely play T20's and ODI's at international level. Even for ODI's, he is good enough. Seeing his performance against a stronger team in tests, he has left me mighty disappointed. But considering that we have only Harbhajan as the other option, I would stick with Ashwin for now until we find another good off break or a leg break bowler for test cricket. Amit Mishra and Rahul Sharma are not those options. Ojha is pretty good enough for tests. We need to find a partner for him.
vorgaphe
Club Cricketer
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2011
- Online Cricket Games Owned
I have to say as an England fan I was fearing that Ashwin would be India's Ajmal. However, he's shown himself to be a non-threat, I can't help but wonder if playing at home against the Windies and NZ lead to him being over-hyped.
S
Satan666
Guest
On point there mate. Against the WI/NZ Ashwin did well and the Indians hailed him as the best thing since paneer. The entire cricketing world realise he is nothing special except the Indians lolz!
Paneer or Panesar? You do know what a paneer is, how great?
Nobody hyped Ashwin to that extent. After seeing his exploits at home vs WI and NZ, everybody thought he would do well at home. Even 'vorgaphe' above (who is obviously not Indian) thought Ashwin was going to be India's Ajmal.
cerande
Club Captain
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2012
- Location
- Indore/Dublin
All right.Its official that Indians obviously love to watch cook bat.They cannot drop him enough.If you are going to drop Cook twice,might as well shake hands and accept defeat.
Can't bat, can't bowl, can't field.
Good innings from Sachin, ended by a good ball, and a good innings from MSD given the situation.
Useless running from Gambhir, and then poor shot to end his innings. Good bowling from Panesar got rid of Pujara, and from Anderson to get rid of Kohli, yet they both could have done better. They played loose. Yuvi threw it away as well. Tail can't wag barring Ashwin, who almost ran out MSD with what really was a pathetic effort from him.
And then the bowling is hopeless. Useless. Meek.
Dropping catches and lazy, un-athletic fielding doesn't help at all.
Ashwin has been terrible this series. Zak is fading. Ishant hasn't taken a wicket in what feels like years - always 'looks' good when bowling but can't buy a wicket to save his life. Ojha is trying, but he's not as good an SLA as Rehman, Herath and even Panesar. It's depressing.
And why are we this way? Where is all the talent that this massive, rich, cricket-mad country should be producing? And why are these established, supposedly World-Class players performing so poorly?
Cricketers being paid a huge amount regardless of their on-field performances could be one. Overworking them could be another - they could be fatigued physically and mentally.
Maybe a lack of desire to perform? No incentive to fight for your spot when there is a lack of competition from reserve players on the bench.
And why is that? Is there a lack of exposure to difficult conditions and situations in FC cricket? One would expect Indian bowlers to be used to bowling at set batsmen on flat tracks though. That's something they should be good at.
Maybe it's the calendar and point system in FC cricket, which encourages sides to set up shop and bat on and on for high first innings scores to secure points. Akash Chopra goes into detail on that here:
Beyond the Blues | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo
Beyond the Blues | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo
Leads to untested batsmen, bowlers cutting down on their pace and venom in order to extend their playing lives, flat economical spinners being favoured over good ones, and an emphasis on bowlers who can bat. Players don't go all out for a win, don't play with high intensity, and that becomes a bat habit that sits with them at Test level.
Maybe Ranji cricketers aren't being pushed enough to increase their levels of fitness and commitment to being full-time cricketers? Cosgrove got dropped from Australia for being too fat, Patel's selection was put on hold until he lost weight. Would India ever do that?
Or does it go deeper than Ranji, to the grassroots level? Are our School-level and Junior-level coaches not imbibing the right skills and mentality into the youngsters? Are we not teaching them to spin the ball with their body, to value their wicket, the play the ball late, to bowl with pace, to field like your life depended on it?
Or maybe it's all the big money to be made in the IPL? Encourages players to work on their big hitting and containing bowling rather than the skills needed to succeed at Test level - although the recent BCCI plans on dealing with uncapped players in the IPL is a step in the right direction.
Maybe it's the selectors? Persisting with failed players and seniors who are over the hill, too scared of offending the Public and the Media, not blooding youngsters at the right times, and at the same time making inconsistent selections when it goes to sides like India A, therefore never sending a clear message on who is in the frame for the National team and who isn't?
What is it? What's going wrong? For a country as large as India, with as much money and resources it has in Cricket, with so much domestic cricket going around and such a long pool of talent...they should not be so ----. 8-0 away from home and now being bashed by England at home as well.
Granted they're still doing well in ODIs and beat NZ and WI recently...but NZ and WI aren't much of a challenge are they now? India shouldn't be satisfied with being mid-table, they should have their expectations at Top 3, if not number 1.
Sure, India could still go on to win this match. They could still go on to win the series. But it definitely doesn't look like it at this stage.
Good innings from Sachin, ended by a good ball, and a good innings from MSD given the situation.
Useless running from Gambhir, and then poor shot to end his innings. Good bowling from Panesar got rid of Pujara, and from Anderson to get rid of Kohli, yet they both could have done better. They played loose. Yuvi threw it away as well. Tail can't wag barring Ashwin, who almost ran out MSD with what really was a pathetic effort from him.
And then the bowling is hopeless. Useless. Meek.
Dropping catches and lazy, un-athletic fielding doesn't help at all.
Ashwin has been terrible this series. Zak is fading. Ishant hasn't taken a wicket in what feels like years - always 'looks' good when bowling but can't buy a wicket to save his life. Ojha is trying, but he's not as good an SLA as Rehman, Herath and even Panesar. It's depressing.
And why are we this way? Where is all the talent that this massive, rich, cricket-mad country should be producing? And why are these established, supposedly World-Class players performing so poorly?
Cricketers being paid a huge amount regardless of their on-field performances could be one. Overworking them could be another - they could be fatigued physically and mentally.
Maybe a lack of desire to perform? No incentive to fight for your spot when there is a lack of competition from reserve players on the bench.
And why is that? Is there a lack of exposure to difficult conditions and situations in FC cricket? One would expect Indian bowlers to be used to bowling at set batsmen on flat tracks though. That's something they should be good at.
Maybe it's the calendar and point system in FC cricket, which encourages sides to set up shop and bat on and on for high first innings scores to secure points. Akash Chopra goes into detail on that here:
Beyond the Blues | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo
Beyond the Blues | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo
Leads to untested batsmen, bowlers cutting down on their pace and venom in order to extend their playing lives, flat economical spinners being favoured over good ones, and an emphasis on bowlers who can bat. Players don't go all out for a win, don't play with high intensity, and that becomes a bat habit that sits with them at Test level.
Maybe Ranji cricketers aren't being pushed enough to increase their levels of fitness and commitment to being full-time cricketers? Cosgrove got dropped from Australia for being too fat, Patel's selection was put on hold until he lost weight. Would India ever do that?
Or does it go deeper than Ranji, to the grassroots level? Are our School-level and Junior-level coaches not imbibing the right skills and mentality into the youngsters? Are we not teaching them to spin the ball with their body, to value their wicket, the play the ball late, to bowl with pace, to field like your life depended on it?
Or maybe it's all the big money to be made in the IPL? Encourages players to work on their big hitting and containing bowling rather than the skills needed to succeed at Test level - although the recent BCCI plans on dealing with uncapped players in the IPL is a step in the right direction.
Maybe it's the selectors? Persisting with failed players and seniors who are over the hill, too scared of offending the Public and the Media, not blooding youngsters at the right times, and at the same time making inconsistent selections when it goes to sides like India A, therefore never sending a clear message on who is in the frame for the National team and who isn't?
What is it? What's going wrong? For a country as large as India, with as much money and resources it has in Cricket, with so much domestic cricket going around and such a long pool of talent...they should not be so ----. 8-0 away from home and now being bashed by England at home as well.
Granted they're still doing well in ODIs and beat NZ and WI recently...but NZ and WI aren't much of a challenge are they now? India shouldn't be satisfied with being mid-table, they should have their expectations at Top 3, if not number 1.
Sure, India could still go on to win this match. They could still go on to win the series. But it definitely doesn't look like it at this stage.
I wouldn't bank on Bell scoring runs let alone "plenty of quick runs"
For Bell insert Patel/the tail and you might be onto something.Looking ominous for the indians now, even if the rest of the order wobble and/or collapse, England should manage a lead of around 100+ BUT if England don't wobble for a while that could easily be 150-200 and a struggle.
Mightn't be the worst thing if India do scrape a draw, but you'd maybe want a 2-1 England lead or 1-1 going into a final Test and the pitch turning square. Not sure England are that great, they FINALLY picked the right bowling line up, well included two spinners, and Cook and Pietersen have carried the bulk of the batting with some support and now Trottsky is joining the party. I'd say it's as much India underperforming as England rising to the occaision, although Cook has been above and beyond convincing and Pietersen was immense on his return, doesn't make the side itself "great"
shravi
National Board President
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2005
- Profile Flag
- India
I thought Indian cricket was at its weakest point in the last 12 years when it got thrashed away 4-0 by both England and Australia away . I was wrong. This is worse. Getting destroyed by England, a team which is known for its frailties vs spin bowling, AT HOME. Surely it can't get any worse than this, which I suppose is cause for optimism, but it doesn't feel that way right now.
Honestly, it is out, but I feel very uneasy about this. Doesn't feel right. But at the same time, I somewhat understand India/Dhoni's rationale. Cook's been dropped twice and didn't really look like getting out. They feel helpless and will take any opportunities that come their way at this desperate stage.
Honestly, it is out, but I feel very uneasy about this. Doesn't feel right. But at the same time, I somewhat understand India/Dhoni's rationale. Cook's been dropped twice and didn't really look like getting out. They feel helpless and will take any opportunities that come their way at this desperate stage.
Last edited:
AbhishekS
Chairman of Selectors
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2008
- Location
- Mumbai, India
- Online Cricket Games Owned
- Don Bradman Cricket 14 - Steam PC
Dhoni should have called Cook back. Fair play my foot. fearsome tweak off Dhoni.
Similar threads
