England in India - Oct to Jan 2012/13

[puddleduck]

Or just Broad, Anderson and Swann... you know, the three first choice bowlers who between the three have averages of 26, 26, and 30.... With a combined 450 odd ODI wickets...

Still, 46 is also good, and he should be given a big pat on the back for trying so hard.

 

[shravi]

I think you are over-simplifying his argument out of a wider contempt for Indian members on PC and thus an inclination to reject anything an Indian member might post. It is clear that Aaron and Umesh would be in India's preferred squad, despite their inexperience and records. Bhuvneshwar Kumar and Shami Ahmed were virtually unknown before the Pakistan series, so he does make a valid point. However, they have definitely exceeded expectations and perhaps done better than Umesh and Aaron could have done in that they have limited damage because of their relatively economic bowling.

 

[ste_mc_efc]

no. he said England being without the players they are without is comparable to India missing those bowlers. When it isn't.

If he has said India weren't at full strength in the bowling department he'd perhaps have a point, but it's nowhere near comparable to the players england are missing.

But yeh, you're right. I hate Indians. Which is why I post on a forum with a large Indian contingent, obviously. Nothing to see here other than me and puddleduck being massive racists.

 

[puddleduck]

You're a good egg and all round snappy dresser Shravi so I'll actually give you a proper response heh

I am only doing, as you correctly alluded to, because my initial point was that these are the positives for England, these are the negatives. My main point was that it hasn't been that bad a tour considering the two heavy defeats, and that by replacing the deadwood like Dernbach and Bresnan and potentially Patel with Broad, Anderson and Swann, then there's certainly some positives to take. As in Cook won't get triggered incorrectly every game, Root looks a decent player and Tredwell seems a viable option in turning conditions to support Swann

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no. he said England being without the players they are without is comparable to India missing those bowlers. When it isn't.

If he has said India weren't at full strength in the bowling department he'd perhaps have a point, but it's nowhere near comparable to the players england are missing.

But yeh, you're right. I hate Indians. Which is why I post on a forum with a large Indian contingent, obviously. Nothing to see here other than me and puddleduck being massive racists.

England for the English! Rights for Whites! Ah Ste, do you remember that Borderlands 2 session we had when we drew turbans onto all the enemies. Completely destroyed our respective Tv's but totally worth it

 

[ste_mc_efc]

But it's irrelevant anyway really. The reason we are without so many key players is the reason India are always pretty much going to be stronger than England in ODI's. England prioritise them much lower. We won't produce many ODI "specialists". We don't even have a 50 over domestic competition. A full strength side will be competitive, but won't be fielded that often. There are positives to take in the sense that it was 5-0 last time, and is not a whitewash this time. England are improving, but this india side is worse than it was during the 5-0 for several reasons.

England have viewed this series as a project or experiment of sorts. Obviously they have played to win - hence the 1-0 lead, but it seems like they are looking to the future. For India, given recent results, winning the series is incredibly important. Indian fans are going to sit here gloating etc about the series win. England fans aren't really that interested in the result. They are essentially having two entirely different conversations.

 

[shravi]

no. he said England being without the players they are without is comparable to India missing those bowlers. When it isn't.

If he has said India weren't at full strength in the bowling department he'd perhaps have a point, but it's nowhere near comparable to the players england are missing.

But yeh, you're right. I hate Indians. Which is why I post on a forum with a large Indian contingent, obviously. Nothing to see here other than me and puddleduck being massive racists.

I don't think I used the word racist anywhere. I am by no means saying the majority of Indians on here post sensibly, because I don't fool myself into thinking that. But I think that sometimes the foreign members are a little quick to pounce upon them just because other Indians have soured their opinion of what an Indian member on PC is like.

@ Puddleduck: who really cares though? I don't know if I'm alone on this, but I honestly couldn't give a kerpluck about ODIs unless its vs Pakistan or it's a World Cup. (I realize this has nothing to do with the point you were making)

@ ste: We have very little to gloat about right now, so can you blame us for making the most of what little joy we get?

 

[Satan666]

Loving the direction this thread is heading. Keep it up guys. Excellent posting from the English members. As for India's performance thus far, well they have done great in the ODI series, however I dont see it as a resurgence the real arena is test cricket, which you guys by this time in 2014 will most likely rank 8th in the world!

 

[puddleduck]

Fully agree Shravi, as I said, you're a good 'un

However I made one point that despite the defeat and two heavy ones at that, there's some good things to take from a tour that has, as Ste also just said, been used to blood some youngsters and learn something about a few players. With Dern-bachoverhisheadforsix, and Craig K being dropped and Root maintained, I'd say they've leaned some useful lessons. The fact that one of them is any series without DRS should probably be ignored in future is by-the-by

Seriously, the standard of umpiring was poor throughout for both sides, and it's still ridiculous that there is only one place in the world that this still applies to

 

[Gurjot95]

As a matter of fact, my post was a general argument and not in reply to anyone particular. Hence no quote.

@paddleduck - You might want to check few posts back before you go with your usual stereotypes all over Indians. Maybe there aren't many dumb Indians as you might think who can't understand your post. I am not sure If it will be right to name who'm my post was directing to but it definitely wasn't yours (or in particular). BTW do enlighten me how we are not supposed to post our opinions on a public forum. Would be good to hear from our intelligent and sensible British friends.

PS: Don't take this post as a rant (although I will do enjoy getting engage in this ). Take a chill pill man next time, I was just pointing out the obvious in my previous post, didn't really mean to offend anyone.

 

[Fenil]

Actually if I am not mistaken it did happened before also. Infact I think it was again Raina on strike who hit Finn for four but was denied because of his stupid habit. I don't remember when unfortunately but I am sure it was on this tour.

I haven't witnessed that but I did came across a video (which is deleted now) in which a batsman hit an overboundary on a ball where the bails were dislodged by the bowler's hand at the time of last delivery stride. It was given a dead ball on that occasion as well. If you ask me, to be fair for all, its fielding team's responsibility to not have any hassle in the game from their side. In case such thing happens (dislodgement of bails by the bowler while bowling), the batting team should be awarded 5 runs just like they are awarded when the ball hits the wicket-keeper's helmet when it is placed on the ground (generally behind the keeper itself) but not before warning the bowling twice or thrice before awarding the runs. Simple as that.

 

[Aalay]

so this is the Yadav who averages 46 with the ball in 11 ODI's. The Aaron who has played in 4 matches, the Munaf Patel who didn't play a single international in 2012.

I'd let you have Praveen Kumar if it wasn't for the fact you're being ridiculous.

Munaf has been injured since the champions trophy, of course he will not be picked. It's not about Yadav's average, it is about the potential that he has shown in that 11 matches which you generally don't see in an Indian fast bowler. He is a genuine wicket taker which India really needs. Same goes with Varun Aaron. In that 4 ODI's, he has shown that he can be a solution to India's death bowling. Praveen has been excellent for India as well. So again I am stating this that if these bowlers were fit, you wouldn't have seen Ishant Sharma or even Shami Ahmed in the Indian squad. Just because these four bowlers were injured, selectors decided to check the reserve bowlers and surprisingly they have been excellent. I am not comparing them with English bowlers but someone posted something about England missing key players and my post was in response to that.

I don't know what puddleduck is going on about. I don't care if I am not in your "decent poster" list. I have just posted my opinion.

 

[Aalay]

James Anderson's record in 2008 India tour in test"
He played 2 matches taking 4 wickets at an average of 54.

James Anderson record in 2012 India tour in test:
4 matches and 12 wickets at an average of 30.

So there is no reason why Yadav can't improve his bowling just like Anderson did. Again, I am not comparing them but just saying that if you have talent then you always have chance to improve.

 

[Skater]

Official England Cricket have posted some photos of the ground for Sunday's game on Facebook:

What a place! Rivals Newlands.

 

[Haarithan]

Munaf has been injured since the champions trophy

Pretty sure he played in Cardiff (and injured himself nastily) - Bairstow's ODI debut in 2012. Unless of course you meant the Champions League T20...

 

[puddleduck]

Don't be silly Haari, he doesn't know what he means

All that was said Aalay was there are positives to take from the series defeat despite the emphatic nature of two of the defeats. There weren't players injured or missing (well Broad a bit), but they were all rested due to ODI's being the last rung on English cricket's ladder and this next bit might be hard for you to take. An ODI tour to India when the next world cup is in Australasia and the one after that in Britain is really not worth sending the core of our bowling attack to. Good opportunity for some of the fringe players to stake a claim, which in the case of Root and Tredwell they did, whilst in the cases of Dernbach, Bresnan, Patel... they did not.

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@ Skater, that does look lovely