England In India - October 2011/12

[ferg512]

Even though we won, I'm still not impressed by Vinay Kumar's bowling. Its really shocking to see such a mediocre bowler getting so many chance. Umesh Yadav looked nice and has a really nice action. He deserves as many chances as Vinay got if not more and give Aaron a fried chickening game. Okay he's raw and his radar may not be as tuned as PK. But he wont improve sitting on the bench. You wont know unless you try him

I defintely agree with this. Yadav looks promising but please get rid of Vinay Kumar hes been tried many times before and failed again and again. Unfortunately he probably knows someone high up in the BCCI which is why he keeps getting picked. You're never going to know what Aaron could be like if you never play him.

 

[Owzat]

Swann really is England's only genuine quality ODI bowler. Every game, teams just see his 10 overs out for somewhere around 30-40 runs. Normally gets one wicket in there somewhere.

Do any other England fans have faith in Patel? I don't even really know where he's supposed to bat. I have no faith in him constructing a good innings at the top and I don't back him to come in and smash a quickfire 30 off 15 at the end. I don't back his bowling to stem runs when the opposition is on top, nor to keep pressure on and take wickets when we are. His fielding is below average.

So on that note, why is he still in the team? Anyone else feel differently? Does anyone see an integral member of the team in Samit?

England are scratching around for an all-rounder and a second spinner. The 'solution' was Yardy, that was giving away free if sometimes 'economic' runs with little serious wicket threat and Patel is much the same.

No surprise to me England threw on Bopara for three overs of 'muddle through' nothing overs, when England were in a good position to strike they had nothing to strike home with. Outside of England the attack is not effective enough, Patel won't play in the World Cup unless we're desparate, stupid or he does enough with the bat to counter his lack of real bowling threat - don't rule any of them out as being possible though , this is England we're talking about after all (the ones that brought us Shight and Yardy)

No surprise the batting collapsed either. Why oh why oh why is Trott batting down the order at four?!?!? Has noone worked out that kwik kameo Kieswetter isn't a real solution? That we were in a stronger position than they were and we got hammered says it all, the middle-lower order is not good enough in those conditions. And if England can't play spin as Cook conceded, they will need to reduce the runs they're chasing by becoming more effective as a bowling side in those conditions and that line-up isn't going to cut it. We certainly can't afford to have Patel and Bopara bowling 11 overs for one wicket and concede 70 runs.

 

[tarun87]

Robelinda is awesome. He uploaded some of the videos of the match where Sachin Opened for India first time in ODI's. I was looking for them for a long time but couldn't find em. 81 off 40 balls. Awesome stuff

video link please

 

[Rehan_24]

hmm Kinda expected. A good win by India.

I guess England need some time to charge up in order to throw some competition in the upcoming games

 

[AngryPixel]

video link please

Here you go mate... Sachin Tendulkar 82 off 49 vs NZ 2nd ODI 1994 - YouTube

 

[aayush93]

Dont blame the pitch mate. It was just that English batsman can't play on a spinning track.

And Indian Batsman can't play on a seaming track. Hence the whitewash.

that was not spinning pitch mate.. it was just too paced wicket.

In Delhi they are going to get similiar kind of pitch but india might bowl first if they won toss, because in month of oct/nov there is plenty of dew in North India.

 

[Aalay]

I defintely agree with this. Yadav looks promising but please get rid of Vinay Kumar hes been tried many times before and failed again and again. Unfortunately he probably knows someone high up in the BCCI which is why he keeps getting picked. You're never going to know what Aaron could be like if you never play him.

Umesh Yadav and Varun Aaron are both kind of same bowler. Both hits the deck hard, both generates good amount of pace, both are good with old ball. So Dhoni surely won't play both of them together. He needs someone steady like Vinay Kumar or Sreenath Arvind with new ball who can just ball straight with stump to stump line and length. Vinay is not that effective but by looking at Arvind's current form in CL T20, you surely don't want to risk him either.

Basically I am expecting the same team for next One day. Though I would like to see Gambhir opening with Parthiv and Rahane at no 4 as he is a solid player of spin.

 

[SaiSrini]

"the revenge series" literally laughed at that. How can you take revenge for a test series in a few meaningless ODI's?

I caught the highlights of todays game and the pitch was a disgrace, win the toss, win the game. Not really sure why England decided to go ahead for this series, subcontinent pitches are just laughable these days, so much so that I found it difficult watching the highlights.

If England can't win on a subcontinental track, how are they better? Whats so disgraceful about a subcontinental track? On the same track that India scored 300, England could score only 174? Don't tell me the pitch drastically changed color and nature after India completed its batting. Its become fashion to diss subcontinental tracks and give undue praise and attention to tracks in Australia, England, SA, etc that has lot of pace and bounce. Subcontinent tracks provide variety. They are slow, low, turn, etc. But if you can't do well on them, you have no right calling yourself the best (same thing which you use against India when you question our right to be called No.1).

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Umesh Yadav and Varun Aaron are both kind of same bowler. Both hits the deck hard, both generates good amount of pace, both are good with old ball. So Dhoni surely won't play both of them together. He needs someone steady like Vinay Kumar or Sreenath Arvind with new ball who can just ball straight with stump to stump line and length. Vinay is not that effective but by looking at Arvind's current form in CL T20, you surely don't want to risk him either.

Basically I am expecting the same team for next One day. Though I would like to see Gambhir opening with Parthiv and Rahane at no 4 as he is a solid player of spin.

When you have Praveen who is a steady and good bowler with the new ball, why you need another guy like that? And also, Ashwin can bowl with the new ball in the Powerplay overs, so if either of Yadav or Aaron gets rough treatment, Ashwin can be brought in early (since we are now playing 5 bowlers with Jadeja as the allrounder).

Yes, Rahane should bat No.3 or 4. I would slot him at No.3

 

[puddleduck]

Very true Sai, but the reality is a pitch with some pace and bounce to it is always going to be better than a slow, low dead pitch. A pitch with pace and bounce offers something to a batsman as well as the bowlers, both spin and seam. However, slow and low pitches only support the spinners.

A pacey pitch tests batsman all around, while giving value for shots both front and back foot. A slow pitch on the other hand pretty much encourages just getting forward all the time to spinners, whilst sitting back to seamers. I accept that to be the best you have to be able to play on both, but cricket is always the winner when a pitch has some pace to it.

A slow pitch essentially means a seamer can only bowl in one area, which, if you're honest, is not a good thing surely?

 

[aayush93]

Very true Sai, but the reality is a pitch with some pace and bounce to it is always going to be better than a slow, low dead pitch. A pitch with pace and bounce offers something to a batsman as well as the bowlers, both spin and seam. However, slow and low pitches only support the spinners.

A pacey pitch tests batsman all around, while giving value for shots both front and back foot. A slow pitch on the other hand pretty much encourages just getting forward all the time to spinners, whilst sitting back to seamers. I accept that to be the best you have to be able to play on both, but cricket is always the winner when a pitch has some pace to it.

A slow pitch essentially means a seamer can only bowl in one area, which, if you're honest, is not a good thing surely?

the hyderadad pitch was not even in terms of pace and bounce. it was not ideally suited to spinners or fast bowler. England just conceded too many runs and played spinners poorly..

Swann is a huge turner of the ball and when he was not getting the turn, then how it can be Spinner friendly track.

and to be frank even i didn't expected that kind of pitch or neither indian team.

it is start of season in india so spinner will not get much turn and neither pace bowler will get bounce.

Mohali and Mumbai pitch will offer bounce, pace and spin also.

England will be getting this kind of wickets in UAE or in SL.

 

[puddleduck]

I'm referring to Sai's reference that subcontinental pitches are "slow, low turn etc..." at no point did I say I was talking about this pitch.

I can't see how anyone would rather a pitch that is slow and low ahead of pitch with something for everyone? Not talking about the Hyderadad pitch. Personally I feel Indian pitches on a whole are better than Pakistani pitches, which had a habit of being some of the most dull pitches in cricket when people still played there. Or even Sri Lankan pitches, which for years were dust-bowls in the hope that Murali and a team of backup spinners could eventually win them the game.

It sometimes annoys me about England, that quite often we actually produce pitches with very little seam-movement, instead producing quality even pitches with something for everyone as so many countries produce pitches to suit their attacks. Against India at home, England's decision to use the old Duke's ball was probably more important than the pitches as the early movement often proved too much for India's batsman.

 

[War]

Swann really is England's only genuine quality ODI bowler. Every game, teams just see his 10 overs out for somewhere around 30-40 runs. Normally gets one wicket in there somewhere.

Do any other England fans have faith in Patel? I don't even really know where he's supposed to bat. I have no faith in him constructing a good innings at the top and I don't back him to come in and smash a quickfire 30 off 15 at the end. I don't back his bowling to stem runs when the opposition is on top, nor to keep pressure on and take wickets when we are. His fielding is below average.

So on that note, why is he still in the team? Anyone else feel differently? Does anyone see an integral member of the team in Samit?

Yea you are 100% on point about Patel. Most ENG fans saw this series as last chance salon for him to eradicate all this major question marks over his ability and the early signs dont look good.

As poster Owzat already mentioned ENG are looking around for a spin-bowling all-rounder to support Swann. But unfortunately i've always been of the belief that none exists in county cricket. I never rated Patel and i honestly dont make young Borthwick will make much of a difference when he gets a chance.

Looking at the remainder of the series, KP needs to bat @ # 5, in Morgan's absence. Leave Cook and Trott who dont have the ability to hit six off the spinners when the pressure gets to them to deal with the quicks early with the new ball.

 

[jacobfelix]

Oh...So many calling for Samit's head ....Just take an example of Jadeja...Months back he was the villain of the nation ....now slowly people are believing in him....

So, give Samit some time ...he might become the Hero of Britain... the next Ian Botham....

 

[puddleduck]

Except Jadeja looks a real bowler, who is handy with the bat and lively in the field. Patel looks like he won a competition. I can see Jadeja slowing things down when the batsman get on top, and I can see him taking wickets and building pressure when India are on top. I can also see him scoring a scampered quick 30 off 20 as he runs well between the wickets, and I can see him stopping a few runs in the field.

This is the issue, which of those does Patel bring to the table? Unfortunately, I think it's still just dessert.

 

[Owzat]

ENG are looking around for a spin-bowling all-rounder to support Swann. But unfortunately i've always been of the belief that none exists in county cricket

I think some do, but not of a high enough quality. Still I'd rather a genuine all-rounder than trying to make county batsmen like Yardy and Patel into all-rounders. They could turn Swann into an all-rounder, play a spinner on their spinning ability alone like Panesar or did someone say Briggs?

Collingwood is the only other player besides Flintoff of recent times to be anywhere near good enough to play as a batsman/all-rounder good enough to bowl their share of overs in ODIs and hold down a place as a batsman.

It might not be as simple as trying to fit a piece into the puzzle, find a player to fit the role they have in mind, but require a rethink of their strategy - like picking a pure spinner and making Swann an all-rounder or maybe a Collingwood recall

Oh...So many calling for Samit's head ....Just take an example of Jadeja...Months back he was the villain of the nation ....now slowly people are believing in him....

So, give Samit some time ...he might become the Hero of Britain... the next Ian Botham....

I trust you are jesting. The only way Patel will make it in the England side is as a batsman, chucking a few overs down in England's current tic-tacs.

He may only have played 17 ODIs, but 162 runs at 20.25 with a HS of 31 and 15 wickets @ 35.80 isn't really the stuff all-rounders or batsmen are made of. He's never going to succeed the way England are using him, hope is stronger that England will change their tactics than in praying Patel will succeed. He'll get halfway there no doubt in that he'll suc................

Breaking down his figures :

Samit Patel (17 ODIs)

BATTING

00-07 : x0
08-09 : x2
10-19 : x3
20-29 : x3
31 : x1 (HS)

31 off 33 balls vs SAF (batting 7, 2008 at the Oval)
28 off 28 balls vs IND (batting 7, 08/09 in India)
26 off 29 balls vs IND (batting 7, 08/09 in India)

He hasn't reached 20 since November 2008 which is only five innings but still, his top four scores all consecutive in his first four innings.

BOWLING

0 wkts : x5
1 wkt : x8
2 wkts : x1
5 wkts : x1 (BB)

5/41 vs SAF - victims included both mere Morkels, Botha and Ntini so good effort but nothing special. Botha is a lot closer to being Botham than Patel....................... He scored his HS of 31 that game as well

2/78 vs IND - also in England, took out Gambhir and Sehwag in India, not before both had scored 50s and at a run a ball between them. He went at over 8.5 an over, India lost just five wickets so it was only a minor inconvenience in reaching 387/5. He scored 28 that match as well.

Samit Patel - first 7 ODIs vs last 10 ODIs

ODIs 01-07

59 runs @ 29.50 (HS 31, SR 96.72)
10 wkts @ 21.70 (BB 5/41, ER 5.09, SR 25.60)

ODIs 08-17

103 runs @ 17.17 (HS 26, SR 88.79)
5 wkts @ 64.00 (BB 1/12, ER 6.04, SR 63.60)

A couple of ODIs account for nearly half his wickets and three innings account for over half his runs. Batting at number seven he's unlikely to prove a force with bat, he's not nearly a good enough spinner to make best use of helpful wickets unless he faces and dismisses lower order batsmen in which scenario England would almost certainly win with or without him.

Why oh why have they not scheduled the matches so one is today!?!?!? (or yesterday) Scheduling is a joke, it will have run between Friday 14th and Tuesday 25th October which spans TWO weekends and yet only ONE game of the five will be on a weekend Or put another way, five ODIs in 12 days of which 1/3 of the days are Saturday or Sunday and only 1/5 will be played at the weekend.................. One day earlier start and they could have played this weekend and next weekend. As it is they have covered five different days of the week and not Wednesday or Saturday