England in India

[donkey]

atleast something new happened last night

 

[Stephen Bailey]

its simple, they won't punish Eden Gardens...its such a important stadium for BCCI. When you have a 100,000 people, its always difficult to control. BUt Guwuhati is different, you gotta blame the officials first, as they were supposed to inform the spectators.

They should never have tried to start the game, the ground was obviously too wet to play on, fact. However, it still does not excuse the disgraceful behaviour of the fans in any way shape or form. They should consider themselves lucky to be called cricket fans at all.

 

[sohum]

Eden Gardens definitely needs to be punished. Earlier, whenever India lost (or won, for that matter), the stands would be burnt. It is astonishing behavior. They have no sportsmanship. When Salman Butt (or was it Farhat?) got his century in the centennial match or whatever was recently held there a couple of years ago, the entire crowd was silent. Then of course, for many spectators there, cricket equals Sourav Ganguly. But anyhow...

Whether the officials informed the spectators or not, burning parts of the stand and destroying video equipment that is yours is not a natural reaction. With all the rain the city had had the last few days, they should have considered themselves lucky that the teams were actually making a serious attempt to play a match.

 

[harishankar]

I am not trying to justify the crowd behaviour in any way, but going by some of the responses on this forum, it's obvious that many here (esp. English fans) have no appreciation of the nature of crowds in India. Most people who come to watch cricket matches are not from the richer classes. To them the cost of a ticket probably means a week's worth of food. The majority of the stands are filled with people from perhaps a lower section of society. By this I don't mean to hurt anybody. It's a fact that only a small minority of the upper echelons of society actually get treated properly at cricket grounds. Others are treated like disposable waste matter by the police and the ground authorities.

Also consider that there are few facilities in Cricket stadiums, especially in the smaller centers in the north. Yet their enthusiasm for watching cricket is so high that these people are willing to sit under the harsh sun the whole day to watch a game. The people who come to watch games in these venues typically haven't watched International cricket in years and finally when they get a chance, they're denied by the weather. Don't you think it's a bit harsh to judge these people by taking the high moral ground? If we ourselves are part of a crowd, wouldn't we feel heated in the same way when apparently the match is supposed to take place and then it's abandoned? That kind of crowd mentality can spread pretty quickly. The indignation of "feeling cheated" is a highly volatile emotion with crowds, particularly when it concerns a passionate sport in India like cricket.

If there was no chance of play, the local association shouldn't have sold tickets at all or refunded them on the day before the match. Yet the farce of trying the get the match underway took place knowing fully well that there was a 90% chance it would be abandoned. The gullible public were grossly misled by being allowed to enter the grounds. Obviously people expect to see a game... Not all cricket lovers are necessarily knowledgable about the technical aspects of playing conditions.

I blame the whole thing on the way the local association tries to make money out of a farce. They know the weather better than anybody and they should have told the umpires that it would be difficult to get play underway. At least then, the umpires would have called off in the beginning itself and there wouldn't have been a crowd to cause trouble.

Ultimately the spectators are the ones who create a match. If we saw International matches playing to empty stands, we would realize how much cricket will miss the atmosphere. Please don't judge the paying public so harshly. I know it's easy sitting at home and criticizing. That's what all of us do. But at least we should try to share the perspective from the spectator's point of view.

I think the association and all the officials responsible should own up moral responsibility for crowd behaviour in such situations where it's purely a farcicial situation which created the tension and not the state of the game (in which case the crowd is purely responsible).

 

[sohum]

I would understand if the crowd reacted less violently than they did. I am of the belief that most people in the crowd who did do what they did were aware that what they were doing was wrong. It is understandable that you are getting cricket after a long time, and emotions run high, but you have still gotta have a logical response to such a situation (as a crowd).

Anyhow, the event has passed, and I'm afraid the BCCI have no choice but to take some sort of action. While considering all the factors, if they ignore the situation, they are allowing it to take place again.

 

[SaiSrini]

What will the officials do? When the chances are 90%, the officials should refund the tickets of those who bought it? Ok, what if we land in the other 10%? Then the Guwahati public would have been denied of cricket and we would have criticised the association for having refunded the tickets even when they know that there were some chances of staging a match.

And it wasnt really raining on the day of the match. The sun was intermittently shining throughout the day. Its just that the damage had been done in the previous days. But you got to take all chances that you can to stage a match instead of giving up and saying the match cant take place without making any effort?

You seem to be giving excuses to cover up the mistake that the fans have done! When you get cheated by some one in your family, you go and thrash their belongings and burn it??? That guy will probably beat you black 'n blue (if he is strong enough) but here, the TV crew couldnt do anything. Now the next game stands in danger of being affected! Ok, the fans didnt know the technicalities of the playing conditions. But what makes them break the stands and burn the TV cameras?

In my opinion, the association now should not refund the money to all those who came to the stadium just because of those group of people who have done this serious damage. Of course, there might be some matured sensible fans who had walked away silently, disappointed at no cricket but you cant exactly punish those who did the damage because you dont know who did it.

but going by some of the responses on this forum, it's obvious that many here (esp. English fans) have no appreciation of the nature of crowds in India

There are much better crowds in India like Chennai, Bangalore, etc but many instances of crowd misbehavior mostly emanates these days only from India and that too because of places like Eden Gardens and Guwahati!

 

[harishankar]

What will the officials do? When the chances are 90%, the officials should refund the tickets of those who bought it? Ok, what if we land in the other 10%? Then the Guwahati public would have been denied of cricket and we would have criticised the association for having refunded the tickets even when they know that there were some chances of staging a match.

It's still farcical because it is physically impossible to dry up a ground using super soppers and stuff when it's clear that the weather remains overcast and the sun comes out only occasionally. Without prolonged periods of sunshine for at least one full day, it was physically impossible that a ground that had taken days of rain could dry out. Grounds do absorb so much moisture that it's *physically* impossible to get them ready after days of rain. The chances of getting the match underway was remote to say the least.

But the way the umpires and the officials keep raising hopes of play by these farcical "inspections" is irresponsible to say the least. Surely they must have known at the beginning that it would be impossible to get a game in. Surely... with all their experience and knowledge of ground conditions. Yet Television makes absurd demands and forces these people on the tenterhooks for hours just to keep their sponsors happy.

There are much better crowds in India like Chennai, Bangalore, etc but many instances of crowd misbehavior mostly emanates these days only from India and that too because of places like Eden Gardens and Guwahati!

This is passing the buck. Let's be honest. We can never be sure when the crowd will erupt and for what reason. Crowd psychology is a strange thing. If the authorities cannot manage crowds, they should play to empty stands or give up their position as cricket officials and hang their heads in shame. It's pathetic that they immediately seek excuses rather than looking at their own behaviour.

In leading up to the game, the Assam authorities were grossly irresponsible by hyping up the chances of getting a game underway when the weather clearly was hostile and the chances of actually playing were thin. I should have thought the officials had enough sense to understand when cricket can be played and when it cannot. Otherwise they deserve to get booted out of their posts of power and responsibility.

 

[cricket_lover]

I would understand if the crowd reacted less violently than they did. I am of the belief that most people in the crowd who did do what they did were aware that what they were doing was wrong. It is understandable that you are getting cricket after a long time, and emotions run high, but you have still gotta have a logical response to such a situation (as a crowd).

Anyhow, the event has passed, and I'm afraid the BCCI have no choice but to take some sort of action. While considering all the factors, if they ignore the situation, they are allowing it to take place again.

Don't always go with the media, they have this habit of turning an ant into an elephant. But yes, i was not impressed with the crowd behaviour but if i was in that situation, i would be very dissappointed.
1) After a long long time, i'll be watching a match
2) my money is wasted, with no refunds
3) we were not informed about anything.

There are much better crowds in India like Chennai, Bangalore, etc but many instances of crowd misbehavior mostly emanates these days only from India and that too because of places like Eden Gardens and Guwahati!

mate, how many times have you visited Bangalore, Chennai, and other cities for cricket? Most of my friends watch cricket, and its quite volatile. Its just that the media doesn't report them. When i went to Bangalore test, it was horrible to say the least.

So unless you'e been to most places to watch a match, do not comment...

What will the officials do? When the chances are 90%, the officials should refund the tickets of those who bought it? Ok, what if we land in the other 10%? Then the Guwahati public would have been denied of cricket and we would have criticised the association for having refunded the tickets even when they know that there were some chances of staging a match.

Would you say that? If you were in Guwuhati, and there is a 95% chance of rain, and play being abandoned...and the match officials (or whoever) refund the fee, i'm sure you, and almost everyone here (including me) would take that.

And it wasnt really raining on the day of the match. The sun was intermittently shining throughout the day. Its just that the damage had been done in the previous days. But you got to take all chances that you can to stage a match instead of giving up and saying the match cant take place without making any effort?

You seem to be giving excuses to cover up the mistake that the fans have done! When you get cheated by some one in your family, you go and thrash their belongings and burn it??? That guy will probably beat you black 'n blue (if he is strong enough) but here, the TV crew couldnt do anything. Now the next game stands in danger of being affected! Ok, the fans didnt know the technicalities of the playing conditions. But what makes them break the stands and burn the TV cameras?

In my opinion, the association now should not refund the money to all those who came to the stadium just because of those group of people who have done this serious damage. Of course, there might be some matured sensible fans who had walked away silently, disappointed at no cricket but you cant exactly punish those who did the damage because you dont know who did it.

and you seem to be be using a 100X lens, when you just need a 5X.

Definitely, no excuse of their behaviour of damaging equipment. But who should be blamed first? What went wrong initially?
It was managed poorly by officials, and BCCI. You could have done a lot. THe thing is, this event was PREVENTABLE, if proper measures were taken.

 

[harishankar]

and you seem to be be using a 100X lens, when you just need a 5X.

Yes. very true.. Why do these situations occur in the first place? Because of poor management and because of the greed of commercial interests. Cricket is subordinated to commercial interests, namely the sponsors who advertise on Tv and the ground. It's obviously in their interest to keep the spectators interested and raising their hopes right until the last moment when they know it's physically impossible to get a game in. And then when the game is suddenly abandoned, the situation is going to explode like a time bomb. Even a baby would understand that.

I have always been irritated at the way the umpires conduct inspections at grounds just to please the crowd. They know as well as anybody that it's a farce and yet they play it with unfailing regularity and then we have those stupid interviews with the umpires after their inspections which again try to raise the hopes by saying another inspection will take place at 1 o clock and so on...

Honestly, the crowd reaction was a sympton, not the disease of the underlying issues at stake. The cricket authorities in India need to take a serious look at the way they schedule these events without the least consideration not only for the players, but for the paying public. While the ground rotation system is fine, it should not be used blindly but rather considering the weather conditions at that particular venue at that time of the year.

But of course, when commercial interests dominate, it's going to remain this way. I don't see any changes for the better in the future. Sad for cricket, but that's the way cricket is played these days. If this happens, all I can say is that in ten years from now, Cricket will be played before empty stadiums not only in India but in a few other places in the world as well...

 

[SaiSrini]

Would you say that? If you were in Guwuhati, and there is a 95% chance of rain, and play being abandoned...and the match officials (or whoever) refund the fee, i'm sure you, and almost everyone here (including me) would take that.

mate, without knowing me fully, do not comment

Don't always go with the media, they have this habit of turning an ant into an elephant. But yes, i was not impressed with the crowd behaviour but if i was in that situation, i would be very dissappointed.
1) After a long long time, i'll be watching a match
2) my money is wasted, with no refunds
3) we were not informed about anything.

You can be disappointed, but you ought not to cross your limits. The officials were also to be blamed, because of various factors. Their security wasnt good at all, they need to have precautionary measures in place when they know a match might be abandoned, etc. But the fans crossed their limits for us to have sympathy on them!

Well I think the last few posts have been a repetition of our differing opinions! I would like to end giving my opinion abt the crowds with this message! However with a final note that I dont have sympathy for the crowds because of their act!

 

[harishankar]

but you ought not to cross your limits.

But in India, people in authority respond only to these kinds of acts. Silent protests or mere verbal complaints aren't going to change anything. Even court cases don't change the callous attitude of the authorities. I would say if there is any positive in this particular episode, it would be to warn the cricket authorities not to take the paying public for granted.

 

[genghis_khan]

do indians always act like animals when they dont get their way??

i mean come on rioting is sooo 1970s....when u hear the game has been abandoned cant u just say "oh well" and go home...not start a bloody riot i mean seriously....shame shame shame

 

[harishankar]

do indians always act like animals when they dont get their way??

Wow... what a lovely observation. But before I answer, I want to ask you:

Do Aussies always behave like spoilt brats and racist pigs?

Shame on you Aussies for the abusive way your crowds treat the subcontinent teams and the South African team recently with your racist taunting. You aren't angels, you know. Talk about pot calling the freaking kettle black.

Dude, take a good look at your own country's obscene crowd behaviour before you look at others.

 

[cricket_lover]

mate, without knowing me fully, do not comment



You can be disappointed, but you ought not to cross your limits. The officials were also to be blamed, because of various factors. Their security wasnt good at all, they need to have precautionary measures in place when they know a match might be abandoned, etc. But the fans crossed their limits for us to have sympathy on them!

Well I think the last few posts have been a repetition of our differing opinions! I would like to end giving my opinion abt the crowds with this message! However with a final note that I dont have sympathy for the crowds because of their act!

neither do i. I don't sympathize the crowd, for their behaviour has been one of the lowest things in the recent past for Indian cricket.

I'm only arguing with the idea that this all could have been prevented if the officials acted wisely, from the beginning.

We all tend to see the big picture, we forget the smaller, important aspects of all stories.

Would you say that? If you were in Guwuhati, and there is a 95% chance of rain, and play being abandoned...and the match officials (or whoever) refund the fee, i'm sure you, and almost everyone here (including me) would take that.

That was a question/situation, i posed to you. It was not a comment made on you or for that matter, on anyone here.

If i was in that situation, i would be terribly dissappointed. But that shouldn't justify violence. But hey! dissappointment can lead to violence, and rather than "curing" the situation, BCCI must find ways to "prevent" them.

do indians always act like animals when they dont get their way??

i mean come on rioting is sooo 1970s....when u hear the game has been abandoned cant u just say "oh well" and go home...not start a bloody riot i mean seriously....shame shame shame

if rioting is soooo 1970's, then where should racism and discrimination stand?

The point is clear, the event occured yesterday could have been prevented, and YES! a big fault on both sides, the crowd and the officials.

COming back to the series,

I hope Dravid is given a break for a while, may be other players like Irfan as well, because you have anotehr major series coming up and you don't want to "burn" your players.

 

[sohum]

But the way the umpires and the officials keep raising hopes of play by these farcical "inspections" is irresponsible to say the least. Surely they must have known at the beginning that it would be impossible to get a game in. Surely... with all their experience and knowledge of ground conditions. Yet Television makes absurd demands and forces these people on the tenterhooks for hours just to keep their sponsors happy.

I do believe the umpires have some sort of ICC regulation that they have to follow in regards to inspecting match conditions and shortening the match. These regulations will obviously not work in all situations, especially not in extreme situations.

Two more points--if there is even a 10% chance of play, the officials have to entertain that prospect. Any play is better than no play. It is like being innocent until you're proven guilty. So you cannot really blame the officials for trying to organize a game. You can blame them, however, if they actively convinced the spectators that there WILL be a game. I don't know which one they did, and I'd be doubtful if any of you lot claimed to know, unless you were at the ground.

Secondly, I do believe the average Indian is smart enough to realize that if there is a lot of rain around, play won't occur. There is no reason to expect there to be a match, above a certain amount of anticipation. And I think most of the people there understood that. People who watch cricket have usually played cricket (even if it is in the streets or a tiny field). I've had numerous experiences at 5:00 AM, trying to convert a wet field into a dry one, and failing. There is definitely sympathy for the crowd that assembled to watch a game, but didn't get it. But I don't believe there is any logical justification for the behavior they exhibited in the face of that action. I don't believe violence comes naturally to human beings, and I believe that the BCCI should be actively supporting the opposite ideal.