England tour of South Africa 09/10

[Ayub 95]

Can't believe the first test isn't til 16 December and yet the tour starts in 2 weeks time.

Usually over in SA they start with the ODI tours but in recent times they started with the tests. Could it put off Smith and co?

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

starting with ODIs is better. in this era without warm-up matches it gives players time to get used to conditions, it also sets up the rivalries for the tests.

if they have to had an ODI series (which I really don't think they do) then it's better before.

 

[Paki007]

England willl have to work hard if they want to beat african because they are pretty difficult to be beaten at home

 

[Owzat]

starting with ODIs is better. in this era without warm-up matches it gives players time to get used to conditions, it also sets up the rivalries for the tests.

if they have to had an ODI series (which I really don't think they do) then it's better before.

I preferred it when ODIs preceded Tests, but I guess some of it in England might be down to nights closing in, changes of weather etc. In an ODI you can alter the parameters, change it from 50 overs to say 25 overs a side whereas in Tests it is time lost, attempted to be made up but can be simply lost and the game drifts towards a draw.

ODIs are already established under lights mind, if they try floodlit Tests then there is no reason the schedules can't be switched.


The reason I like ODIs before Tests is it is a warm up for the main event, gives the two sides a chance to hit form against decent bowlers in a competitive match rather than what counties/state/provinces/representative XIs offer. You can also try out players who might be aimed at playing ODIs but could also do a job in Tests, while the formats may have different demands, you still have the same basics and quality of batting/bowling.

Here's a few who debuted in ODIs before Tests, I picked Caddick, Gough and Cork because they were our best bowlers along with Gus Fraser and made Test debuts in 93, 94 and 95 respectively yet perhaps didn't all play together as much as they could have (37 times if memory serves, notably the first time we beat West Indies in a long time in 2000)

DEBUTS

Ian Botham : ODI = August 1976, Test = July 1977
Allan Lamb : ODI = 2nd June 1982, Test = 10th June 1982
Alec Stewart : ODI = October 1989, Test = February 1990
Martin Bicknell : ODI = December 1990, Test = July 1993
Dominic Cork : ODI = August 1992, Test = June 1995
Andrew Caddick : ODI = May 1993, Test = June 1993
Darren Gough : ODI = May 1994, Test = June 1994
Marcus Trescothick : ODI = July 2000, Test = August 2000
Andrew Strauss : ODI = November 2003, Test = May 2004

Beats me why Bicknell was dropped from ODIs, he averaged mid-20s with bat and ball. These days there is more a leaning towards specialists for ODIs and Tests, personally my view is that anyone who is quality should be able to play both. One exception maybe for me is Neil Fairbrother who should make the England best ever ODI XI but averaged a poor 15.64 from 10 Tests

NH Fairbrother (matches in brackets)

Tests (10) : 219 runs @ 15.64 (HS 83)
ODIs (75) : 2092 runs @ 39.47 (HS 113)
World Cup (19) : 430 runs @ 43.00 (HS 75no)

His 62 in the 1992 World Cup final very nearly pulled England out of the fire, from 69/4 to 180/7 when he finally got out. Those were the days when no World Cup final had been won by the side batting second.

 

[stefan]

Really intrested were Kuhn will be batting for the t20's. Will Boucher play and Kuhn play as Specialist Batsman. Albie Morkel pure batsman = Utter fail. Although he scored a 100 today doesn't mean anything.
Likely squad:
1. Smith (c)
2. Kallis
3. De Villers
4. Duminy
5. Peterson (out of posistion, hopes he gets runs)
6. A Morkel
7. Boucher
8. Van der Merwe
9. Botha
10. Steyn
11. Langeveldt

Morkel averages 42 in first class cricket. He is a much better batsmen then people give him credit. This will give him the chance to get set instead of needing to have a go from the start.

 

[Paki007]

Morkel should be in the playing XI

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

who will open in the tests for south africa?

smith and who? Mckenzie was dropped, Prince came in and scored a massive ton (and it was an absolutely brilliant one) but he's a middle order player, Imran Khan is in the frame as a new specialist.

 

[Paki007]

Imran khan could be a good choice for opening

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

they can't drop prince again though?

scores a ton, gets injured and then doesn't get back in the side, first game back in scores another ton and then gets dropped again. haaarsh.

 

[mdoggie]

I can't see Prince being dropped, he is far too good a player to not deserve a place. If they went for a specialist then I would guess it would be between Imran Kahn and Peterson but neither of those are in the same league as Prince.

 

[Fatal Shot]

South Africa ODI squad: Graeme Smith (capt), Hashim Amla, Johan Botha, Mark Boucher, AB de Villiers, JP Duminy, Jacques Kallis, Charl Langeveldt, Ryan McLaren, Albie Morkel, Wayne Parnell, Alviro Petersen, Dale Steyn, Lonwabo Tsotsobe, Roelof van der Merwe

1. Graeme Smith
2. Jacques Kallis
3. AB De Villiers
4. JP Duminy (I'm so glad he is batting at four. He wasn't getting enough overs at five. Comes at the expense of Gibbs though, which I'm strongly against)
5. Ryan McLaren (I like him better than Peterson. McLaren can play both aggressive and conservative. Seems a very composed player)
6. Mark Boucher
7. Albie Morkel
8. Van Der Merwe (Why he was coming behind Botha, I do not understand)
9. Johan Botha
10. Wayne Parnell
11. Dale Steyn

We have four bowlers who will bowl their allotted 10, and four others who can also bowl. We bat till 10 as well. I also feel like Van Der Merwe could come in as a pinch hitter at three if we get off to a good start. He's being wasted batting so low. We saw what he can do in the Twenty20 against Australia, when he had some time to bat. So maybe just try it. I hate how we hate to experiment.

I read recently that Kemp is back. He needs to brought back instantly. He had a very good year for Kent in FC Cricket with both bat and ball. I would rather have him bat at five.

 

[Sureshot]

England win their first warm up game by a comfortable margin of nearly 200 runs. Trott, Strauss and Morgan all hit half centuries. Broad, Swann, Mahmood, Collingwood and Anderson all got 2 wickets. Nice start to the tour.

 

[MUFC1987]

Good to see Mahmood getting a go. Not convinced with Broad opening the bowling though to be honest.

 

[pcfan123]

DeVilliers can open, Im pretty sure he started off as an opener

 

[Jetty]

Even though Onions was playing the last time in ODIs I think the bowling will be

ODIs
Anderson, Broad, Mahmood, Wright, Collingwood, Swann

Tests
Anderson, Onions, Broad, Plunkett, Swann

Mahmood has more experience in limited overs cricket than Onions but I would say Onions is the better bowler in the longer form of the game.

Limited overs
886.2 overs 172 wickets at 26.28 econ 5.10 s/r 30.9 - Mahmood
358.1 overs 58 wickets at 32.27 econ 5.22 s/r 37.05 - Onions