Pakistan's Tour of South Africa - Feb-March 2012/13

[spooony]

Its funny how teams like Pakistan and West Indies are so naturally good at T20 cricket, while teams like South Africa sort of shoot themselves in the foot in this format with its poor performances in this format.

South Africa have a lot of very T20 players & i reckon on paper if they pick their best team, instead of quota coloured players like Ontong, Phangiso & Tsotsobe.

Davids
Du Plessis
De Kock
De Villiers
Duminy
Miller
A Morkel
Morris
Peterson
Steyn
M Morkel

Back-ups: Behradin/Ingram, Wiese, McClaren or Klienvelt, Van Der Merwe

Just like S Africa's test squad, such a T20 team should be dominant force in this format as well.

We use T20 for development and a couple of experience guys to blood in other players. T20 breaks your bowlers and is the cause for a lot of injuries. So we don't mind getting beaten in it as we see it as school yard BS.

T20 is pointless really

 

[AnshtheDj]

You guys might wanna check this out

South Africa Cricket Features: South Africa seek root of T20 toil | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[spooony]

You guys might wanna check this out

South Africa Cricket Features: South Africa seek root of T20 toil | ESPN Cricinfo

That is just the press looking for something. We have a T20 tournament but they forget to look at the reason why our players don't break down so much and why we do not need to rotate the players cause of them not playing much T20. T20 break your bowlers and only reason why it exist is cause cricketers can make huge lumps of cash in it. That is all. Further it has no value or meaning in cricket as losing a T20 series at home no will even remember next year or anything. Tests are the important factor as it involves more team play than luck and that is why we and England have prioritize it and why both countries are doing well in it.

 

[Epic]

Lol, the meaningless 3 hour format that's hardly ever played causes all the injuries?

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It's called a packed schedule, something South Africa don't have.

 

[spooony]

Lol, the meaningless 3 hour format that's hardly ever played causes all the injuries?

----------

It's called a packed schedule, something South Africa don't have.

Yeah its packed cause there is Test cricket, ODI cricket and T20 cricket and maybe we don't have a packed one cause we do not care playing a lot of T20's.

Take a already packed schedule of 1 day 4 day and 5 day cricket then go add useless T20 games ontop of it and you sit with broken down players. That is why we don't add that extra burden onto the players

 

[cricket_icon]

Silly excuse with regards to the t20 but the ODI series will be a lot more competitive. I haven't checked but I'm guessing Steyn will return and possibly Morkel? Or is MM being rested till the Champs trophy?

I like Pakistan's chances, they have the better all round bowling attack but SA's batting is superior.

 

[Sedition]

Final hour before the fantasy cricket game for this series closes. Lucrative vcash for finishing in the top 3, so any PCPL players should get on board.

Register your team here.

 

[War]

We use T20 for development and a couple of experience guys to blood in other players. T20 breaks your bowlers and is the cause for a lot of injuries. So we don't mind getting beaten in it as we see it as school yard BS.

T20 is pointless really

I can understand why you would say this sir. T20 cricket in current shameful international cricket schedule certainly is one of the key reasons for the amount of injuries fast bowlers are getting.

But S Africa still have not taken control of ODI's either. Lost to NZ recently.

Overall though the idea is just for S Africa to maintain a similar dominance over all formats like what AUS did when they were the best team in the world. Something S Africa really should be doing given their depth.

South Africa Cricket News: Ryan McLaren among five to get new CSA contracts | ESPN Cricinfo

Otherwise what's your take on the latest S Africa contracts?

I know A Morkel hasn't always shined for S Africa, but i reckon he was a victim of being pigeonholed as a slogger. He should be a major part of the limited overs teams.

Parnell & Tsokeile retaining contracts clearly can't be anything more than quota. Surely someone like Kyle Abbot who just had a superb debut or Chris Morris deserves a spot over Parnell who has been useless at international. And again De Kock or Vilas or Kuhn should be the keeper back-up over Tsokeile.

Phangiso no doubt looks useful, but once senses again because he is black, he is being pushed since his champions league performances over someone like Roloef Van Der Merwe who over a more complete all-round package as a left-arm spinner.

 

[spooony]

Silly excuse with regards to the t20 but the ODI series will be a lot more competitive. I haven't checked but I'm guessing Steyn will return and possibly Morkel? Or is MM being rested till the Champs trophy?

I like Pakistan's chances, they have the better all round bowling attack but SA's batting is superior.

Did you see how different the T20 squad looks like from the test squad? Steyn was oversea visiting his girlfriend

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I can understand why you would say this sir. T20 cricket in current shameful international cricket schedule certainly is one of the key reasons for the amount of injuries fast bowlers are getting.

But S Africa still have not taken control of ODI's either. Lost to NZ recently.

Overall though the idea is just for S Africa to maintain a similar dominance over all formats like what AUS did when they were the best team in the world. Something S Africa really should be doing given their depth.

South Africa Cricket News: Ryan McLaren among five to get new CSA contracts | ESPN Cricinfo

Otherwise what's your take on the latest S Africa contracts?

I know A Morkel hasn't always shined for S Africa, but i reckon he was a victim of being pigeonholed as a slogger. He should be a major part of the limited overs teams.

Parnell & Tsokeile retaining contracts clearly can't be anything more than quota. Surely someone like Kyle Abbot who just had a superb debut or Chris Morris deserves a spot over Parnell who has been useless at international. And again De Kock or Vilas or Kuhn should be the keeper back-up over Tsokeile.

Phangiso no doubt looks useful, but once senses again because he is black, he is being pushed since his champions league performances over someone like Roloef Van Der Merwe who over a more complete all-round package as a left-arm spinner.

We have prioritize test cricket above anything else. Anything we are doing now in ODI cricket will be experiments for the next World cup and build a squad towards that. So we will lose some or win some but losing a ODI series really who cares about it. We will be getting youngsters ready for then. Tsolikele I dunno what he brings or what future he is but its not the future of the side. Transformation turned our world class netball team into a bottom dwelling one. In netball the quotas said 2 white and 5 non white. If they don't adhere to it they get fines and point deductions. Guess what now teams can't find white players to put in their teams and they get docked points and fined. They all gone to NZ and Aus which are now the top 2 countries in the world. SA ranked 6th struggling to beat Jamaica in it. Unfortunately here the tall blokes is mostly the white people and in some sports its a major advantage cricket and netball is some of it. The whites maybe the minority but playing sports like cricket and rugby they are the majority and supporting it they are the majority.

For ODI we will choose what we have available and picking a stronger squad but we will not strain our players and will give those a rest who needed it.
But I think you have read this
Pakistan in South Africa 2012-13 : South Africa abandon one-day experiments | Cricket News | Global | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

That is just the press looking for something. We have a T20 tournament but they forget to look at the reason why our players don't break down so much and why we do not need to rotate the players cause of them not playing much T20. T20 break your bowlers and only reason why it exist is cause cricketers can make huge lumps of cash in it. That is all. Further it has no value or meaning in cricket as losing a T20 series at home no will even remember next year or anything. Tests are the important factor as it involves more team play than luck and that is why we and England have prioritize it and why both countries are doing well in it.

actually sometimes think it's the opposite of too much work that's the problem. bowling 4 overs every couple of days is hardly a big deal, but perhaps taking them out of training and FC cricket were they'd bowl a lot more is damaging their stamina when they go back to tests. most athletes will train pretty much constantly, I think t20 is a bowlers holiday and having so many big holidays then jumping straight back into intensive test cricket can't be good for you.

though incidently morne morkel bowled more overs than any other player in the IPL in 2012. kallis and steyn also played and were front line bowlers and played as much as they could, not sure how they are sitting out that much t20 cricket when they're playing almost exactly the same amount as most nations.

 

[Warner Watson]

Pakistan will bounce back in the ODI series

 

[spooony]

actually sometimes think it's the opposite of too much work that's the problem. bowling 4 overs every couple of days is hardly a big deal, but perhaps taking them out of training and FC cricket were they'd bowl a lot more is damaging their stamina when they go back to tests. most athletes will train pretty much constantly, I think t20 is a bowlers holiday and having so many big holidays then jumping straight back into intensive test cricket can't be good for you.

though incidently morne morkel bowled more overs than any other player in the IPL in 2012. kallis and steyn also played and were front line bowlers and played as much as they could, not sure how they are sitting out that much t20 cricket when they're playing almost exactly the same amount as most nations.

You are thinking about international cricket only. You forgot about domestic cricket and IPL as well. No they play less cause we chose not to play them in T20 Games.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

You are thinking about international cricket only. You forgot about domestic cricket and IPL as well. No they play less cause we chose not to play them in T20 Games.

no they don't. steyn, morkel and kallis played, and bowled extensively through the IPL, they're also likely to be in the champions leagues being that they can be in for their domestic south african side or their IPL side so they have hedged their bets in regards to competing in it (I know steyn was in both the 2010 and 2012 edition, can't be particularly bothered checking all through the records)

so that's more domestic T20 cricket they play than india for a start, because the indians don't participate in foreign leagues so the IPL is their whole season. yet india are the ones lying with most of their pace bowlers injured.

steyn has played 107 T20 matches in his career (domestic or international), morkel 91, kallis 118, I'd actually be impressed if you could find 1 or 2 current international bowlers with anything more than that.

by comparison of the older pace bowlers about zaheer khan's played 96, broad 64, anderson 40, mitchell johnson 34, siddle 16.

it's obviously great being south african and getting to comment what everyone else is doing wrong, success is a wonderful soapbox, but your facts don't match what you're trying to say.

 

[War]

Tsolikele I dunno what he brings or what future he is but its not the future of the side. Transformation turned our world class netball team into a bottom dwelling one. In netball the quotas said 2 white and 5 non white. If they don't adhere to it they get fines and point deductions. Guess what now teams can't find white players to put in their teams and they get docked points and fined. They all gone to NZ and Aus which are now the top 2 countries in the world. SA ranked 6th struggling to beat Jamaica in it. Unfortunately here the tall blokes is mostly the white people and in some sports its a major advantage cricket and netball is some of it. The whites maybe the minority but playing sports like cricket and rugby they are the majority and supporting it they are the majority.

The thing with S Africa's cricket quota/transformation (whatever they call it) policy that i have realized since it became prominent during the 2001/02 Australia tour incident with Ontong/Rudolph, is that S Africa have been able to get away with picking the odd token black/coloured player without merit, because the team has generally been good enough carry them.

Few times it has blown up in their faces like during the 2009/10 England series when Ntini clearly wasn't being dropped due to political influence even though he was passed it, for the in-form white bowler Fridel De Wet. Or the 2012 T20 world cup squad selection.

Looking at that contract list, S Africa can easily get away with having Phangiso in over Van Der Merwe or Tsotsobe over Morris/Abbot.

And as long as De Villiers keeps performing as keeper/batsman across all formats they probably can get away with claiming Tsokelie is the back-up keeper over guys like De Kock/Vilas/Kuhn.

I just hope that now given that S Africa baring some surprising turnaround are pretty much on the verge of dominating across all formats - that these quota/transformation decisions does affect their potential progress.

 

[sami ullah khan]

The most consistently inconsistent team in world cricket does it again. They lost the first match by 125 runs. Who could have predicted a six wicket easy win for Pakistan in the second match? It was all down to fabulous display of quick bowling from Irfran. Junaid also bowled well and was very quick touching 90 MPH regularly. Gul showed again why he should only play T20s. If he had backed up the opening pair, South Africa would have not crossed 150. Spinners did their part and batting also clicked.
Irfan is injured and may have to sit out tomorrow. That leaves the door open for Wahab Riaz. If Irfan is fit to play, Gul should be dropped IMHO.