England tour to South Africa December 2015/February 2016

[dp458]

I think you'd describe Rashid, Jordan and Willey as 'flexible'. I can understand Jordan above the other two, because he can biff it for 6 quite well, but then so can Willey, so him coming in below Rashid seemed a bit strange. But then if we ever get to the point of one of them needing to come in with 20 overs to go, you'd probably go for Rashid every time, as the better technical batsman. Six hitting is not really his game though.

Topley facing two balls and not getting a single for the 400 should see him dropped really though....

Willey should have come in ahead of Jordan i think. 20 overs to come, it would be Woakes/Rashid presuming theyre thinking 3 from the 4 of Jordan Woakes Rashid Willey

 

[shravi]

I think they should go with Morris at 7, and bring Rabada in for Berhadin, and drop JP as you dont need his bowling and go for Miller instead

Rabada is being overworked. SA need to be careful, and I think that is what they are doing.

 

[bigred]

I think you'd describe Rashid, Jordan and Willey as 'flexible'. I can understand Jordan above the other two, because he can biff it for 6 quite well, but then so can Willey, so him coming in below Rashid seemed a bit strange. But then if we ever get to the point of one of them needing to come in with 20 overs to go, you'd probably go for Rashid every time, as the better technical batsman. Six hitting is not really his game though.

Topley facing two balls and not getting a single for the 400 should see him dropped really though....

Did you not see Rashid in the big bash?

 

[MUFC1987]

Did you not see Rashid in the big bash?

I'm sure he was great against the Australian club bowlers that play in that, but as Willey has shown domestically and Jordan has shown in the few International games he's batted in, they're both a lot better at it than Rashid is.

 

[bigred]

I'm sure he was great against the Australian club bowlers that play in that, but as Willey has shown domestically and Jordan has shown in the few International games he's batted in, they're both a lot better at it than Rashid is.

Come on. The bowling Willey faces in the blast are nowhere near the standard of the bowlers in the big bash. The Aussie domestic system has definitely been stronger, but having 8 teams to England's 18 makes for a far better standard.

 

[stefan]

Actually isnt this where ALbie Morkel would be perfect at 7.
I find the quota thing stupid, although you could swindle it as Philanderr is injured

He would be except that he injured his back in the warmups to a titans game just after he had gotten the recall to the national squad. So he isn't available for the first 3 games with that problem.

Hopefully we will see him for the atleast the t20's if not the odi's.

 

[bigred]

Looks like Morgan has decided that Jordan is going to pretty much exclusively do death bowling. Looks too easy to hit in the middle overs.

 

[bigred]

Do people think Topley will make a good test match bowler? He's done well with Essex but I know that div 2.

 

[MUFC1987]

Come on. The bowling Willey faces in the blast are nowhere near the standard of the bowlers in the big bash. The Aussie domestic system has definitely been stronger, but having 8 teams to England's 18 makes for a far better standard.

So Willey gets big scores through hitting sixes domestically in England, (which Rashid doesn't do in England), yet because Rashid gets the odd 20 in Australia that suddenly makes him a much better batsman at the end of the innings? Not sure you've put much thought into that.

Not sure what the 8 teams has to do with it either, when you consider that they used to have 6 sides. Surely that's spreading the talent thinner, or just bringing in more overseas players to make up the numbers. Doesn't stop you from having poor bowlers still playing. Australian state bowlers didn't suddenly get better overnight because there were more teams to play for.

 

[bigred]

So Willey gets big scores through hitting sixes domestically in England, (which Rashid doesn't do in England), yet because Rashid gets the odd 20 in Australia that suddenly makes him a much better batsman at the end of the innings? Not sure you've put much thought into that.

Not sure what the 8 teams has to do with it either, when you consider that they used to have 6 sides. Surely that's spreading the talent thinner, or just bringing in more overseas players to make up the numbers. Doesn't stop you from having poor bowlers still playing. Australian state bowlers didn't suddenly get better overnight because there were more teams to play for.

My initial point was that Rashid and Willey should bat above Jordan.
You said that Rashid should bat below Jordan when 6s are needed.

I reckon Rashid can hit 6s as I've seen him do it in the big bash.

Willey can also hit 6s.

You mocked Rashid's 6s as they were in the big bash as opposed to Jordan's- done internationally- and Willey's- done domestically.

My point was that hitting 6s in domestic English cricket is inferior to doing it in the big bash, as the big bash is a far superior league to the blast. Having all of your pro cricketers dispersed over 8 teams as opposed to 18 makes a massive difference to the standard.

With the exception of 2 very stron blast teams, all over counties would finish bottom of the bbl. Therefore, I don't see how you can belittle Rashid's achievements over there.

Anyway, I'm not too bothered if Willey bats ahead of Rashid, but I don't think he should be below Jordam.

 

[MUFC1987]

My initial point was that Rashid and Willey should bat above Jordan.
You said that Rashid should bat below Jordan when 6s are needed.

I reckon Rashid can hit 6s as I've seen him do it in the big bash.

Willey can also hit 6s.

You mocked Rashid's 6s as they were in the big bash as opposed to Jordan's- done internationally- and Willey's- done domestically.

My point was that hitting 6s in domestic English cricket is inferior to doing it in the big bash, as the big bash is a far superior league to the blast. Having all of your pro cricketers dispersed over 8 teams as opposed to 18 makes a massive difference to the standard.

With the exception of 2 very stron blast teams, all over counties would finish bottom of the bbl. Therefore, I don't see how you can belittle Rashid's achievements over there.

Anyway, I'm not too bothered if Willey bats ahead of Rashid, but I don't think he should be below Jordam.

Well, Rashid scored one six in this latest Big Bash, so unless you're seeing things, I don't how that is exactly conclusive proof. I take it that solitary six must be worth 10 or something for it to be so impressive? That's before we mention that it was against Clint McKay, that World Class bowler, who would presumably destroy County teams with his record?

It's very easy to state 'This team is better than that team' when they never actually play each other. And you realise there are less pro cricketers in Australia right? Because if less teams is the answer to quality cricket, we should all bow down to the New Zealand T20 Comp with their 6 teams, as obviously the place to be. That's a stupid argument. And I'd bet if the Counties had the money to bring in top drawer T20 players, they'd look a lot better too. And probably without the number of 35+ year olds dominating. But that's no doubt the sign of a quality league.

 

[MUFC1987]

On the cricket today, a very mature innings from Hales. And how lucky we were that Tahir didn't play in the Tests.

We've even given South Africa a chance by not sending Buttler in earlier.

 

[bigred]

Well, Rashid scored one six in this latest Big Bash, so unless you're seeing things, I don't how that is exactly conclusive proof. I take it that solitary six must be worth 10 or something for it to be so impressive? That's before we mention that it was against Clint McKay, that World Class bowler, who would presumably destroy County teams with his record?

It's very easy to state 'This team is better than that team' when they never actually play each other. And you realise there are less pro cricketers in Australia right? Because if less teams is the answer to quality cricket, we should all bow down to the New Zealand T20 Comp with their 6 teams, as obviously the place to be. That's a stupid argument. And I'd bet if the Counties had the money to bring in top drawer T20 players, they'd look a lot better too. And probably without the number of 35+ year olds dominating. But that's no doubt the sign of a quality league.

Of course there are more professional cricketers in England. It's 6 squads vs 18. But with very similar populations, if you dilute the talent over 18 counties, each team will definitely be weaker. When everyone's available, Sheffield Shield and BBL games are at a very good standard. You can't say that in England- even in div 1. It's a completely separate topic- but that's why I'm in favour of 8 English franchises.

The fact that Australia have less pro cricketers then makes Aussie 1st grade cricket a lot stronger than 1st Xl club cricket over here. Hence why professionals like Nick Browne, Laurie Evans and many more, go over and play 1st grade cricket and don't look like they're too good for it.

 

[MUFC1987]

Of course there are more professional cricketers in England. It's 6 squads vs 18. But with very similar populations, if you dilute the talent over 18 counties, each team will definitely be weaker. When everyone's available, Sheffield Shield and BBL games are at a very good standard. You can't say that in England- even in div 1. It's a completely separate topic- but that's why I'm in favour of 8 English franchises.

The fact that Australia have less pro cricketers then makes Aussie 1st grade cricket a lot stronger than 1st Xl club cricket over here. Hence why professionals like Nick Browne, Laurie Evans and many more, go over and play 1st grade cricket and don't look like they're too good for it.

I see you didn't mention about Rashid, so I can only assume you agree with me now.

On what you did say though, populations the same? I'd do some research on that, if I were you. You'll then realise that 18 into 6 isn't a bad ratio.

But I've never argued about the strength of the First Class or League cricket in either country. You can say that the Big Bash is better all you like, because it's impossible to prove either way. Personally, I'd back the best English sides to be competitive against the best Australian sides, and that's without worrying about the Australian sides having more overseas players. But can I prove that? No I can't, just as you can't either. But as I said with the New Zealand example, talking about numbers and using that as the sole basis for being right, is stupid.

 

[bigred]

I think we can put the 'Hales is only a t20 player' to bed now. England have a good problem. There are too many quality players. James Taylor must be the best one day player England have ever had that can't get into the team. It's ridiculous. Then there's the likes of Bairstow, Wright, Billings, Malan and Vince all banging on the door.

I didn't see much of Jordan's bowling today. Was it any good? If not, it might be time for Broad.