English Football Thread 2013/14

[KBC]

If he was good enough he would not being played out of position

Kagawa.

 

[Lee1981]

Good enough for what, exactly?

To play 25 games in a title winning side?

That is a crap point

There is been loads of players for various title winning teams who were really not good enough for that side.


So your telling me that in your Everton squad there isn't one player who plays a good few games that you don't rate?

 

[thedon5]

When people bring that up I always remind them that Pascal Cygan was an Invincible.

Victor Valdes was also pretty much an untouchable in Guardiola's Barca.

 

[War]

Not defending Welbeck but to say "If he was good enough he would not being played out of position" - is a weak point too. Some top players are versatile & can play multiple positions well.

While some players when they are sacrificed out of their main position for the sake of team balance etc - struggles. Welbeck i suspect is suffering from the latter.

Another young English player in Sturridge was getting similar criticism before he went to Liverpool - Chelsea & Man City always played him out wide. Only during his loan move @ Bolton when he played in his preferred striker role - did he ever look good. Rogers showed faith in him, in his main role & he is doing fine now.

 

[Bevab]

Sturridge did look good under AVB, to be fair.

 

[thedon5]

Sturridge did look good under AVB, to be fair.

Yeah that is just typical Chelsea that meant he was underrated. He never got game time. That is like saying Demba Ba is a bad player since he doesn't play. In reality he is one of the top strikers in the league.

 

[ste_mc_efc]

That is a crap point

There is been loads of players for various title winning teams who were really not good enough for that side.


So your telling me that in your Everton squad there isn't one player who plays a good few games that you don't rate?

you've misunderstood my point.

he played a large part in winning the title, in terms of number of games. I still don't rate him, but he's good enough to be a bit part player in a title winning side. That is why i asked to clarify the term good enough.

if he wasn't good enough to do a job, he'd have been shipped out after 6-7 games (or fewer) like bebe, obertan, manucho etc.

 

[ParkedTheBus]

Ba is somewhat coming back to his original form and If he and Torres can continue the good work , Jose could pair both of them up forward and watch them score for fun... But , Our defence is just worrying :-/ We need a young rock like Managala or Zouma.

 

[Umair7]

At least we supported our team at hard times and now look we are back at the champions league spot.

And when did i said that i aint supporting United anymore

 

[thedon5]

Ba is somewhat coming back to his original form and If he and Torres can continue the good work , Jose could pair both of them up forward and watch them score for fun... But , Our defence is just worrying :-/ We need a young rock like Managala or Zouma.

Won't happen with Torres still at Chelsea.

Zouma is a great prospect, reminds me a lot of Sakho in that he's young with huge potential and a brilliant physique. If he can continue his development he will be world class. Mind you he is still erratic, he is serving a long ban for breaking a guy's leg and right now he isn't good enough to be starting ahead of Cahill, Ivanovic or Terry, even Luiz. He is 4th or 5th choice material.

Mangala is very good but not quite top quality. However, he is young and has a great physique like Zouma, he could really go up another level at Chelsea.

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you've misunderstood my point.

he played a large part in winning the title, in terms of number of games. I still don't rate him, but he's good enough to be a bit part player in a title winning side. That is why i asked to clarify the term good enough.

if he wasn't good enough to do a job, he'd have been shipped out after 6-7 games (or fewer) like bebe, obertan, manucho etc.

That is still not the criteria for being even a decent player, purely because he got games... That also doesn't suggest he played a 'large part'. He made more appearances than Hernandez, I'm not sure that anyone could argue that Welbeck played a bigger part in the team than Hernandez, and Hernandez is also IMO twice the player Welbeck is, at least as a striker. Better in literally every way except work rate, but they're strikers remember.

Notice something? What is the difference between Welbeck and the players you have listed? Welbeck is English and a youth player, he isn't going to get shipped off that easily. I think Welbeck is about good enough to play for a bottom half team at least, he could do a job at Cardiff or Hull probably for example. Bebe, Obertan and Manucho aren't good enough for even that so the comparison is a bit irrelevant.

 

[ste_mc_efc]

That is still not the criteria for being even a decent player, purely because he got games... That also doesn't suggest he played a 'large part'. He made more appearances than Hernandez, I'm not sure that anyone could argue that Welbeck played a bigger part in the team than Hernandez, and Hernandez is also IMO twice the player Welbeck is, at least as a striker. Better in literally every way except work rate, but they're strikers remember.

Notice something? What is the difference between Welbeck and the players you have listed? Welbeck is English and a youth player, he isn't going to get shipped off that easily. I think Welbeck is about good enough to play for a bottom half team at least, he could do a job at Cardiff or Hull probably for example. Bebe, Obertan and Manucho aren't good enough for even that so the comparison is a bit irrelevant.

of course it's relevent, my point is if he was completely useless he'd be shipped off, like the completely useless players were.

my entire point is that he is bad, but not as bad as most people here make out

 

[ParkedTheBus]

If we get through this month without a loss then we will have an awesome shot at the title.

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If Torres could convert his hard-work into goals or assists , then we are in for a treat. Eto'o is worrying though :-/ Ba seems to be in decent form.

 

[War]

10 of the Greatest Escapes in English Football History:west-bromwich-albion-2004-2005 | FTBpro

 

[thedon5]

of course it's relevent, my point is if he was completely useless he'd be shipped off, like the completely useless players were.

my entire point is that he is bad, but not as bad as most people here make out

I still think that is no way to be saying he's not 'that' bad, every team has bad players that in the end don't get shipped out for some reason, and Welbeck is English and a youth product so even more likely to stick around.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[thedon5]

van Persie out for a month. With him you can usually expect it to go on for maybe a month and a half minimum if it's initially quoted as just one month.

Man Utd will find it really tough to get CL or even EL football now, this is such an important period with teams like Tottenham and Chelsea.

Looks like Welbeck, Hernandez and Kagawa will finally get some proper chances though. I hope Welbeck plays so that he can mess Man Utd up even more.