Greatest All-Rounder Since Sobers

[sami ullah khan]

I think its a bit unfair to compare Imran with Kallis. Both were very different. Imran was a bowling all-rounder and his bowling ability was way above that of Kallis and vice versa. Its like comparing apple to oranges IMO.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

Yea. It's doubtful if Kallis would make the RSA lineup alone on his bowling throughout his career, and Imran on his batting.

Although the stats suggest that towards the end Imran might have made the team on his batting alone. What were Kallis' stats at his bowling 'peak' ?

 

[TumTum]

Flintoff on the same level as Shakib and Vettori is a bit harsh tbh. Remember that Australia for a long time were looking for an Allrounder half as good as Flintoff.

Wasn't really putting them at the same level, just not at the top level.

 

[War]

I think its a bit unfair to compare Imran with Kallis. Both were very different. Imran was a bowling all-rounder and his bowling ability was way above that of Kallis and vice versa. Its like comparing apple to oranges IMO.

Yea exactly. Thats why Sobers & Imran where & still will always be the best two all-rounders in test history.

An all-rounder is player who at his all-round peak was good enough to score 50/100 & take 5 wicket hauls fairly consistently. Sobers & Imran at their peaks did that the best. (also Botham at his short peak 77-84)

Kallis was never that complete although similar batting all-rounder to Sobers. His bowling has always been conditions based, in that he only was effective in seaming conditions while on flat pitches his bowling was rendered fairly ineffective. While Sobers on flat pitches could resort to spin & still maintain similar wicket-taking threat.

Kallis also was also mainly a 4th or 5th bowler. Sobers & Imran where main bowlers for their sides during their peaks all-rounder peaks.

Since Kallis batting took off around 2003/04 he hasn't taken a 5 wicket haul againts a test standard opposition in almost 8 years now, since this match:

4th Test: England v South Africa at Leeds, Aug 21-25, 2003 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[shravi]

Yeah, but how can you expect 5 wicket hauls from him as the fourth seamer? He's never going to get enough overs to do that is he? Point taken (and agreed with), but still.

 

[Owzat]

Yeah, but how can you expect 5 wicket hauls from him as the fourth seamer? He's never going to get enough overs to do that is he? Point taken (and agreed with), but still.

Then if he was THAT good a bowler he wouldn't have been 'fourth seamer' would he.........................?

I discount Hadlee on the grounds he was a bowler who could bat, same for Vettori, Flintoff simply wasn't good or consistent enough with bat and/or ball, I know he is some kind of folk hero to some but he never took a 10wi, didn't take that many 5wis and didn't score enough hundreds. Kallis for me is a batsman who is also a very good bowler but not an all-rounder and his bowling is not always used - reflected in him only taking two wickets per match compared to say Imran who took around four wickets per match despite not bowling as much towards the end of his career (98 overs in his last three series/nine Tests). I'm surprised if Hadlee is in there that Wasim Akram isn't. Sorry but Shakib is a pointless inclusion, you could justify having Heath Streak in there if you're going to lower the standard well below actual contenders.

Kapil Dev, Imran Khan and Ian Botham were extraordinary in they were all exceptional all-rounders and all around at the same time. I think Imran was the best bowler and the best batsman of the three, as others have mentioned he tended to focus more heavily on one than the other but still was as capable of scoring a hundred as taking five wickets.

 

[Brook]

I think some of this stuff about Kallis' bowling is backwards really. SA have always had pretty great fast bowling while Kallis has been there, so his batting has been more important to the team.

 

[Dare]

I voted for Kallis but I wish I could vote for 2 guys because Imran is up there if not above Kallis. Both are legends.

 

[War]

Yeah, but how can you expect 5 wicket hauls from him as the fourth seamer? He's never going to get enough overs to do that is he? Point taken (and agreed with), but still.

I have heard that arguement before in defense of Kallis bowling. But then i remind people that their was period when Donald/Pollock declined & a young Smith took over from the captaincy in the 2000s between 2001/02 (after AUS drubbed them in that unofficial # 1 series) to about mid 2006. When SA where an average side & where in serious transition mode.

During that period Kallis certainly had a grand oppurtunity to take up the mantle as a more prominent seamer. Since Ntini didn't even step up yet & Steyn had not emerged. But his bowling didnt & he remained nothing more than a 4th seamer while his batting reached all-time great levels.

 

[AkshayS]

Imran for me, a pure gem of an allrounder.
Though a close battle between him and Kallis, but I would prefer him.

 

[relentless_rock]

Imran Khan for me. He had to shoulder the additional reponsibility of a captain whilst contrinuting with bat, ball and in field.
Kallis definetely the best contemporary all-rounder. Head and shoulders above the rest.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

I voted imran as well. If kallis was bowling on fire he would have been bowled more to take 5 wickets. A captain would keep a bowler that had taken 3 wickets in the attack.

Imran's batting stats suffer a little because he came in so young and not fully developed as a batsman, but regardless, his bowling was as good as Sobers batting, easily one of the best 10 ever, if not top 5, and his batting was more than good enough to play in any top 6 at the time.

I think an all-rounder that averages 20 with the ball and 40 with the bat is more useful than one that averages 30 and 50, although I guess while Kallis batted in a batting friendly age, Khan bowled in a bowling friendly age and while he bowled on flat tracks he did have the somewhat, shall we say generous, home umpires.

but anyway, the man was a genius. plus if we're talking all-rounder proper, not just a combination of batting and bowling Imran was also a brilliant captain ( I guess it should be said that Kallis is an excellent slip fielder).

 

[Papa_Smurf]

I've actually never seen the great's of the 80's (Khan, Botham, Dev and Hadlee) play, just seen their numbers, so I can't comment too much on them.

But I agree on the consensus, you really can't compare a bowling all-rounder with a batting all-rounder. As far as overall greatness goes, Khan outweighs all the others. What he managed to do for Pak cricket was absolutley outstanding, and it has to be said, the quality has never been the same from them ever since he left.

That's one of the reasons I included Shakib in the list - not only he is the best all-rounder going atm after Kallis, but he does have the potential to do for Bang what Imran did for Pak.

 

[Symptom_Control]

Imran for me, as he played in a much more competitive era, great skipper, did great things for pakistan cricket in such a politically tough environment

Mike Procter deserves to be on the list, too


but of all of them from all eras I would pick Keith Miller

 

[McLOVIN]

Kallis. He is the most balanced and genuine ALR. Almost every other ALR is a batting or bowling ALR. Shakib is the only other player who is close to being like that.