10 greatest All- Rounders of all time Relive:Sobers marvel(Sir Gary Sobers: 254 against Australia)

Here's my top 10 loosely put together:

Garfield Sobers
Imran Khan
Keith Miller
Ian Botham
Jacques Kallis
Kapil Dev
Wasim Akram
Richard Hadlee
Alan Davidson
Richie Benaud

I get pretty careless when listing the last 4 but I'd say the top 6 are pretty established in my list. Always had Kapil at #5 until I watched Kallis bowl more consistently.
 
Best Post so far sifter132

Welcome back.

Both your posts are high quality and enlightening for me and for all readers as well.

It reflects the fact:

That you go for a comprehensive researching.

Possess Loads of Analytical thinking .

Give credit to the deserving one based on your thorough research and findings - Hallmark of a Good, Analytical and Thinking mind.

Go easy mate - I'll start getting a big head :D


Just one comment on Imran and it's a stat comment which I found interesting. It's his stats before becoming captain and after. Imran was named captain for the Pakistan tour of England in 1982 and apart from a few Tests under Javed Miandad he was captain until he retired from Test cricket at the start of 1992.

Before captaincy he played 37 Tests:
Batting: 1330 runs, average = 25.09, 1 century
Bowling: 158 wickets, average = 26.56, 10 5fers

After captaincy, from mid 1982 onwards he played 51 Tests:
Batting: 2477 runs, average = 51.60, 5 centuries
Bowling: 204 wickets, average = 19.90, 13 5fers

So as you can see, before he became captain he was a good bowler and useful batsman, but after the captaincy - WOW :eek: Averaging over 50 with bat and under 20 with ball.
 
Good Stats on Imran

Go easy mate - I'll start getting a big head :D


Just one comment on Imran and it's a stat comment which I found interesting. It's his stats before becoming captain and after. Imran was named captain for the Pakistan tour of England in 1982 and apart from a few Tests under Javed Miandad he was captain until he retired from Test cricket at the start of 1992.

Before captaincy he played 37 Tests:
Batting: 1330 runs, average = 25.09, 1 century
Bowling: 158 wickets, average = 26.56, 10 5fers

After captaincy, from mid 1982 onwards he played 51 Tests:
Batting: 2477 runs, average = 51.60, 5 centuries
Bowling: 204 wickets, average = 19.90, 13 5fers

So as you can see, before he became captain he was a good bowler and useful batsman, but after the captaincy - WOW :eek: Averaging over 50 with bat and under 20 with ball.

Good stats on Imran.

It shows that captaincy can do wonders for some cricketers.

Cheers!

robin2855 added 54 Minutes and 25 Seconds later...

Replace Flintoff with Shaun Pollock and list Flintoff at no.10.

Also you have forgotten Vinoo Mankad.

A good observation about Vinoo Mankad - Point taken.

My stand on Flintoff is unshaken. Pure stats does not reflect the greatness and genius of a personality.

Flintoff is in the mold of Imran, Botham, Kapi, Hadlee - One man Demolisher.

Can win a game on his own - batting or bowling or both.

His stupendous peformance against the worlds' Best team Australia in 2005 is a folklore now.

Took 24 wickets and 400 plus runs in that memorable series which helped England to regain Ashes.That is a fantastic performance.

True Shaun Pollock has taken 400 + wickets and is an exceptional bowler statwise.

But One can be truly accepted exceptional when one performs well against top or best opposition.

Let's Compare Flintoff and Pollock's Performance against Australia.

Bowling

Pollock: 13 matches : (40 wickets, avg: 36.85, 5w : 1, 10w: 0)

Flintoff: 11 matches (42 wickets, avg: 29.60, 5w : 1, 10w: 0)

Who is better?

Batting

Pollock: 13 matches:(Runs 517, Avg: 28.72, HS : 67*, Century 0, Fifties 2)

Flintoff: 11 matches:(Runs 706 , Avg: 33.62, HS : 102, Century 0, Fifties 5 )

Who is better?

Pollock has a phenomenal record of taking 421 test wickets in 108 matches at an incredibe average of 23.12 which is truly a great achievement.

But can you believe that a top ranking bowler of Shaun Pollock's calibre has never taken 10 or rmore wickets in a test in his entire test career.That is so strange.

On the batting front Flintoff is miles ahead of Pollock in overall test career.

Pollock :108 matches:(Runs 3781, Avg: 32.32, HS : 116, Century 2, Fifties 16).

Flintoff:75 matches:(Runs 3645 , Avg: 31.70, HS : 167, Century 5, Fifties 25).

So the bottom line is Freddie deserves to be at 8 and Pollock has to remain at 10.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!
 
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But can you believe that a top ranking bowler of Shaun Pollock's calibre has never taken 10 or rmore wickets in a test in his entire test career.That is so strange.

Well even more gobsmacking for me is that Andrew Flintoff has taken only 2 5 wicket hauls in his entire 75 Test career - 2!!!! That is unbelievable really, how could he have not run through more teams? Compare him to other all-rounders similar to him:
Botham? 27 5fers in 102 Tests.
Keith Miller? 7 5fers in 55 Tests.
Chris Cairns? 13 5fers in 62 Tests.
Jacques Kallis? 5 5fers in 131 Tests.
Shaun Pollock? 16 5fers in 108 Tests.
Tony Greig? 6 5fers in 58 Tests.
Garfield Sobers? 6 5fers in 93 Tests.

This is why I like Chris Cairns for example more than Flintoff.

Here's Cairns in 62 Tests:
Batting: 3320 Runs, 33.53 average, 5 centuries
Bowling: 218 wickets, 29.4 average, 13 5fers

Flintoff in 75 Tests:
Batting: 3645 Runs, 31.69 average, 5 centuries
Bowling: 218 wickets, 32.07 average, 2 5fers

So Cairns win in every category over Flintoff: more runs and wickets per test (importance to team), more centuries and 5fers per test (match winning/turning ability), higher batting and lower bowling averages (efficiency and reliability).

But then again, Flintoff had a pretty terrible start to his career and comparing Flintoff to Cairns at their peak, Freddy was maybe marginally better at the peak of his powers in '04 and '05, but Cairns was also fairly awesome at his peak too under Stephen Fleming at the end of the 90s and early 00s.

Anyway, just thought I'd pimp Cairns a bit :p


My stand on Flintoff is unshaken. Pure stats does not reflect the greatness and genius of a personality.

Agreed here. While Flintoff's stats are probably less impressive than his legend, the legend is important too.

The thing with Flintoff too is that he's been a very successful ODI all-rounder which makes people remember him as a better Test player than he actually might have been.


And just for the record, my top 10 reads as (based on Tests only):
1. Sir Garfield Sobers - West Indies
Just because he's #1 doesn't mean I adore him. I think his bowling is overrated as people fall in love with the fact he could bowl 3 styles - big whoop, so can I - it's how good you bowl with those styles that matters. But his batting was superb and his bowling was certainly useful.

2. Sir Ian Botham - England
Mainly because he turned matches so often - 14 centuries and 27 5fers makes him the best match winning all-rounder ever. No question. So why doesn't he get my top spot? He was quite inconsistent with bat and his bowling wasn't as constantly good as say Imran's, so he doesn't get top spot.

3. Aubrey Faulkner - South Africa
Never saw him play but the man has a great record. He's my 'I'll put in an older player to look smart' pick :p

4. Keith Miller - Australia
Where's Imran? I hear you cry. But I like Keith only slightly better. Imran rarely had both skills working well together, he was a great bowler to start with but tailed off later. But by then he'd become a pretty good batsman. Miller always batted in the top 6 (usually at #5, while Imran usually played at #7 or even #8 in earlier years). Miller opened the bowling too forming a legendary partnership with Ray Lindwall.

5. Imran Khan - Pakistan
Tempted to put him higher, as he's probably my favourite all-rounder. He's the first great one I saw. He would have been higher for my list if his batting had been better earlier in his career. But as I pointed out earlier, he averaged 50 with bat and 20 with ball after he started captaining in 1982 - very talented guy and an awesome magnet for fans.

6. Chris Cairns - New Zealand
Check out my comparison with Flintoff above. Cairns has better stats and he also looked just as good, smashing attacks for quick 50s or jagging the ball off the pitch as he carried the Kiwi attack.

7. Jacques Kallis - South Africa
Still very underrated I think. The poor man's Sobers I suppose, but still a great batting all-rounder.

8. Vinoo Mankad - India
More famous for the method of dismissal named after him unfortunately. But he was a productive opener and a probing left arm spinner. Fairly unusual I suppose to see great spinning all-rounders, but Mankad was one.

9. Tony Greig - England
Another man famous for something else - this time his commentary, administrative and marketing roles in cricket. And also for running out Kallicharan after he went to tea... But as an all-rounder Greigy was quite a good batsman making 8 100s in his 58 Tests, and he was also an aggressive medium pacer who took 141 wickets. And the quickness with which he was promoted to captaincy showed how highly regarded he was as a leader or motivator.

10. Sir Richard Hadlee - New Zealand
Despite being at #10 in this list, I think he'd probably bat at #8 in my all-time test team (him or Imran). Awesome bowler, one of the best ever and a more than handy batsman averaging 27 for the Kiwis. He and Ian Smith formed a pretty useful #7 and #8 combination.


And yes, there's no room for Kapil Dev.
 
Welcome nightprowler10! Formidable Selection!

Here's my top 10 loosely put together:

Garfield Sobers
Imran Khan
Keith Miller
Ian Botham
Jacques Kallis
Kapil Dev
Wasim Akram
Richard Hadlee
Alan Davidson
Richie Benaud

I get pretty careless when listing the last 4 but I'd say the top 6 are pretty established in my list. Always had Kapil at #5 until I watched Kallis bowl more consistently.

Welcome nightprowler10! Formidable Selection. Solid and Balanced as ever.

Sequencewise is also close to being ideal.

I don't think their is any room for complaints.

Besides being all-rounders of the top quality all of them have proven match winning peformances either with the bat or ball or both.

What more can one expect?

I give you an A+ by all means. Great Job Buddy!

Thanks and Cheers!
 
Here are my 10 favourite all rounders in no particular order

Adam Gilchrist
Wasim Akram
Ian Botham
Kapil Dev
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Garfield Sobers
Shaun Pollock
Jacques Kallis
Chris Cairns
 
Welcome scion_sid

Here are my 10 favourite all rounders in no particular order

Adam Gilchrist
Wasim Akram
Ian Botham
Kapil Dev
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Garfield Sobers
Shaun Pollock
Jacques Kallis
Chris Cairns

Welcome scion_sid!. Reasonably good selection if not the best.

You can consider a wicket keeper cum batsman to be an all-rounder per definition by Wikipedia. But in the strict sense it is advisable to go with the traditional All-rounder which typically includes a Bowler + Batsman.

if you run a search on the Internet you will never come across ensuing results with All-Rounder List that includes Wicket keeper/ batsman as well (this is my observation and thinking .You do not have to agree to it). They typically include names who have excelled with bat and ball.

Notable ommison is Keith Miller - One of the Greatest All-rounder the world has ever seen. Also a match winner either with bat or ball or both. It is impossible to conceive a selection exclusive of Keith Miller.

Alan Davidson is also a good bowling All-rounder missing from your Eleven.

Other than It is a pretty good selection.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!
 
best all rounder of all time : The Great Imran Khan
 
Heres my choice of all time greatest ten all rounders
sir garfield sobers
*Jaques kallis
*Harbhajan singh
*Zaheer khan
*Sanath jayasuriya
*Wasim akram
*Imran khan
*Kapil dev
*Ian botham
*Shaun pollock
*Chris cairns
 
Welcome back King Cricket!

Sobers
Miller
Imran
Kapil
Botham
Pollock
Kallis
Hadlee
Davidson
Cairns


In no particular order.

Welcome back King Cricket!

Except Pollock you have a formidable Plus Selection . It seems you have done your homework and Research very well.

I would have loved to give you a A + . But because of the Pollock Factor you get A.

Still good enough if not the best Selection.

Here? my take on Pollock.

True Shaun Pollock has taken 400 + wickets in his test career and is an exceptional bowler statwise.

But one can be truly accepted exceptional when one performs well against top or best opposition.

Let's see Pollock's Performance against Australia.

Bowling

Pollock: 13 matches : (40 wickets, avg: 36.85, 5w : 1, 10w: 0)

Number of wickets is not that bad, But it is the average 36.85 and only 5w:1 ie a matter of concern for a top bowler of his class against a Quality opposition.

Batting

Pollock: 13 matches Runs 517, Avg: 28.72, HS : 67*, Century 0, Fifties 2).

Average does not even touch 30 and only two fifties. Highest score of 67*
also does not seems too impressive.

Pollock has a phenomenal record of taking 421 test wickets in 108 matches at an incredible average of 23.12 which is truly a great achievement.

But can you believe that a top ranking bowler of Shaun Pollock's caliber has never taken 10 or more wickets in a test in his entire test career. That is so strange.

My point is that there are all-rounders like flintoff and a few others who has better credentials overall(Batting + Bowling combined) than Pollock and deserve to be placed amongst the Greatest All- Rounder of all time.

Having said that I am not denying the fact that Pollock is an exceptionally good bowler. It is universally accepted.

I am sure If you do some additional research of Greatest All-Rounders of the world you should be able to come up with a better candidate not that I don?t like Pollock.

I believe in Survival of the best in this sort of assessment.Only the best deserves a place.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

.

robin2855 added 15 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

Heres my choice of all time greatest ten all rounders
sir garfield sobers
*Jaques kallis
*Harbhajan singh
*Zaheer khan
*Sanath jayasuriya
*Wasim akram
*Imran khan
*Kapil dev
*Ian botham
*Shaun pollock
*Chris cairns

Wow! At the outset I was a bit frightened to the extent I thought it might be AnnoyiingDevil in disguise (Just kidding!).

A very bold and unconventional selection - Bhajji, Zaheer and Sanath (Sanath would have been a strong canditate if this assessment was based on one day but unfortunately it is only based on test cricket performance)

So my next question mate is why do you consider Bhajji, Zaheer and Sanath in your selection.You might have a surprise packet for all of us.Unleash that.

We certainly would like to hear from you.

I have my fingers crossed.

Good Luck and Cheers!
 
Relive:Sobers Marvel (Sir Gary Sobers:254 against Australia)

Relive : Sobers Marvel (Sir Gary Sobers: 254 against Australia)
Don?t? miss this one


In our greatest All-rounder eleven of all time almost everyone has voted for Sir Gary Sobers as # 1 and rightly so.

But primarily our Assessment has been based on stats.

I wonder if any amongst us have seen him live as he played long time back.

No matter how good we portray a Celebrity by means of stats it is impossible to have the real effect unless we see it live or through DVD Highlights or Video clips.

So I am providing below a link where readers will be able to see a few glimpses (only 5 mts and 11 sec) of a stupendous knock from Sobers in couse of Third (unofficial) Test between Australia and the Rest of the World XI played at the Melbourne Cricket Ground in Jan(1-6) 1972.

Sobers along with the Great Lillee speaks on this special knock.

Listen to What Dennis Lillee, Chappell Brothers have to say on Sobers on his magical knock. Awesome stuff!

For those who want to go one step further the commercial Version is available under the title ?The Gary Sobers Special? marketed by FSH Marketing. I consider myself very fortunate to have seen and own a coy of the commercial version (Black & White :33 mts) which incidentally has commentary by Sir Don Bradman.

In this gem of a knock Sobers scored 254 off 324 balls in 376 minutes with 33 fours and two sixes averaging sensationally a boundary every 10 balls.

This is cricket at hits magical best.

Here you go:

Load Google.com

Enter in Google Search : Sir Gary Sobers: 254 against Australia

Click on where it says Sir Gary Sobers: 254 against Australia

Enjoy the Magic Moments.

Hope everybody has enjoyed.

Cheers!
 
Heres my choice of all time greatest ten all rounders
sir garfield sobers
*Jaques kallis
*Harbhajan singh
*Zaheer khan
*Sanath jayasuriya
*Wasim akram
*Imran khan
*Kapil dev
*Ian botham
*Shaun pollock
*Chris cairns

What :eek:I know every one is entitled to their opinion but Harjbhajan and Zaheer are not allrounders and you have put them higher than Imran Khan. I don't even consider Wasim a genuine all rounder who is miles better than the blokes you mentioned.
 
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