ICC Cricket World Cup - May/July 2019

[LiveLoveABD]

I am honestly astonished at the "Kohli chokes" conversations. It's astounding. Leave it to subcontinent fans to criticize a player like Kohli. Amir gets a lot of flack in Pakistan's media as well. These kinds of people probably only read stat sheets and think sports is like fantasy leagues. Kohli is not only best batter in the world, arguably perhaps ever, he's India's backbone. They tend to go as he goes. Both Amir and Kohli have undoubtedly won games for their sides but these people always tend to have short term memory loss, or at least have a serious case of selective memory.

I'll reiterate, if Dhoni came in at 4, India might have had a much better shot. I imagine Shastri would have made that decision. Never been a huge fan of his methods. Come on BCCI, you have a star coach in the making in Rahul Dravid just right there with the under 19 team.

Leave Dravid alone. The earlier coach was fine. The problem is the captain. My personal pick for coach would be Zak. He is an amazing cricket brain and tactician. Dravid is so good that he has to be there at U19 levels.

 

[aditya123]

Boy, does this hurt or what. Sport is cruel. Have so much to say but so spent. Watched a lot of heartbreaking defeats but been the underdog in most of them. This defeat hurts because us supporters saw what the side was doing wrong for a while. Its a case of several bilateral series results masking a huge weakness. It will take days, if not weeks to recover from this.

 

[hammadahmed88]

Now Ajit Agarkar is saying that "Dhoni has lost his ability to finish games". Pathetic really the rhetoric surrounding a cricket savant and legend like Dhoni in the media. Can't they focus on his career in gratitude, appreciate it, and give a much deserved farewell on a high note? As a Pakistani fan, and generally as a cricket lover, I will always remember MS as a giant of the game. It was an absolute pleasure to watch him bat, keep wickets, and play chess on the cricket ground. Thank you Dhoni.[DOUBLEPOST=1562786501][/DOUBLEPOST]

The earlier coach was fine

Kumble?

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Boy, does this hurt or what. Sport is cruel. Have so much to say but so spent. Watched a lot of heartbreaking defeats but been the underdog in most of them. This defeat hurts because us supporters saw what the side was doing wrong for a while. Its a case of several bilateral series results masking a huge weakness. It will take days, if not weeks to recover from this.

More or less the same sentiment. I am convinced we have the best team in the world.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Now Ajit Agarkar is saying that "Dhoni has lost his ability to finish games". Pathetic really the rhetoric surrounding a cricket savant and legend like Dhoni in the media. Can't they focus on his career in gratitude, appreciate it, and give a much deserved farewell on a high note? As a Pakistani fan, and generally as a cricket lover, I will always remember MS as a giant of the game. It was an absolute pleasure to watch him bat, keep wickets, and play chess on the cricket ground. Thank you Dhoni.[DOUBLEPOST=1562786501][/DOUBLEPOST]
Kumble?

Yes, Kumble. Don't want to discuss Agarkar.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I don't think if NZ wins, it'll be a shock tomorrow. Don't forget, the wicket cannot be rolled till India commences it's innings. The wicket will be damp, overcast conditions are the order for the day and NZ have the attack to dismiss any side in these conditions. I personally feel, this will be a close close match. The wicket is a tricky one and I really hope it's a complete match to defeat the luck factor.

By the way, Manjrekar in his pitch report said that it's a belter!

I pretty much nailed it.

 

[SaiSrini]

Everybody knows already on my opinion about Kohli's captaincy. But one more thing I want to add to that debate is - Rohit Sharma has really bloomed into a solid captain and one moment in the game today told me loud and clear that Rohit will be a very good captain for India if given the chance. It was when Jadeja reached his 50 and was acknowledging to the dressing room. And Rohit did the following gestures - pointed his index finger towards Jadeja and then pointed that same finger towards his muscles. Basically he was telling Jadeja from the balcony "you are really strong; now just go and finish it off". That moment was beautifully captured and even lauded by the commentators

I think Rohit Sharma will be a better captain. Give him a good proper coach and I think India can seriously benefit. Leave Virat Kohli to his batting and help him scale his batting peaks with freedom.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Everybody knows already on my opinion about Kohli's captaincy. But one more thing I want to add to that debate is - Rohit Sharma has really bloomed into a solid captain and one moment in the game today told me loud and clear that Rohit will be a very good captain for India if given the chance. It was when Jadeja reached his 50 and was acknowledging to the dressing room. And Rohit did the following gestures - pointed his index finger towards Jadeja and then pointed that same finger towards his muscles. Basically he was telling Jadeja from the balcony "you are really strong; now just go and finish it off". That moment was beautifully captured and even lauded by the commentators

I think Rohit Sharma will be a better captain. Give him a good proper coach and I think India can seriously benefit. Leave Virat Kohli to his batting and help him scale his batting peaks with freedom.

Pretty much bang on.

I don't know what further proof of the Kohli/Shastri failure needs to be established for change. The fitness side of things can be as is but we need some calm, stability and patience at the top. I was also very impressed with Sharma's reaction. You know when some reactions are made for TV and those that come from the heart and you could just sense the desperation in Sharma to see India win. Hell, I bet had we made it across the line I would have bet a house on Sharma to make it 6 for the WC on Sunday. I have also seen that Rohit likes to play 5 proper bowlers, which I have been weeping for will become standard procedure as it is for Mumbai Indians.

The next assignment is the World T20 and India need to be immediate in their planning. We should look more and more at Pandya as a 6 and Jadeja as a 7 with 3 quicks and Kuldeep. Since it will be Australia, Navdeep Saini needs to be given a proper go because he will be a handful on those tracks. Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli, Pant, DK, Pandya, Jadeja, 3 quicks and Kuldeep. Saini, Rahul, Iyer and one more batsman. I think Iyer should be drafted in immediately in the limited overs set up and made no.4 for ODI's. His time is now.

 

[aditya123]

Any tips on how to fight this? I thought I didn`t care about this sport enough. What this shows is like context is everything in sport, for the team and the fan. Here is my assessment.

India last won in 2011 under MSD. We hardly had the best bilateral series win % in the 2008-2011 period. We had better stats under Kohli-Shastri. However, we put several of our players under pressure in that period. For e.g, Asia Cup in 2010, we didn't field a full side. MSD rotated Sachin-Sehwag-Zak and co. Even in the pre-WC series in SA, it was Kohli himself who made a name and then played the Cup. We lost that series but it put players in uncomfortable situations. Knockout matches are uncomfortable, no matter how many games you have won in the past 4 years or the WC league stage. How many innings have any of this middle order played under pressure in any bilateral series? It's not that they cannot, its that they haven't ever been allowed. Most of our ODIs have been formulaic, with the Top 3 getting big tons on good batting tracks, leaving little for the lower order to do. Rather, we lost more games in the bargain but kept putting the lower order in uncomfortable situations. All that the current approach did was shore up stats and get us some ranking points. Also allows the current management to speak big about its 'records' and say things like 'go look at the stats'. If we are honest, in this 4 year period, we`ve lost all the big moments. Guys like Pandya and Pant will go on to win big games. They will hurt from this and learn. Thrust them with more and risk losing. Indian cricket can afford to lose more. Let's not go the SA way. We have the resources but we aren't the best K.O side. Dhoni, we respect all that he has done but there one has to be honest about what he does to run chases. Well played, and a stellar career. Our approach in this game, to begin with, was wrong. We went defensive at a time we had attacking choices. What we did since CT17 took wickets and we changed that to a defensive pick in Bhuvi over Shami. No matter how good a death bowler, you must take wickets up front. A good campaign but if we are honest with ourselves, one that was doomed to fail at some point. Well done on a good campaign in general.

 

[CerealKiller]

The depth of India's talent when it comes to batsmen is simply mind blowing, yet they couldn't fix their middle order. I have been saying for years that Dhoni should bat at 4, i remember him getting a ton against SA a few years back at that position, but ever since Kohli took over he's been pushed down the order. They tried so many people at 4 when they already had the perfect man.

 

[aditya123]

It's my biggest grouse with ODI cricket in general. I wish we had the tri- and multi-team series back. It tests players in multiple different scenarios, qualification games, grand finals etc. That's how we knew guys like Yuvi and Kaif had the big game temperament. You will never ever get that in a bilateral series. Tendulkar's desert storm wouldn't be the same if not for the context! Lose some money and get that back, BCCI.

 

[aditya123]

The depth of India's talent when it comes to batsmen is simply mind blowing, yet they couldn't fix their middle order. I have been saying for years that Dhoni should bat at 4, i remember him getting a ton against SA a few years back at that position, but ever since Kohli took over he's been pushed down the order. They tried so many people at 4 when they already had the perfect man.

Agree. Been saying that for ages. Dhoni bats at 4 or does`nt find a place. We have a drunkard for a coach and a not so great tactician as captain.

 

[CerealKiller]

It's my biggest grouse with ODI cricket in general. I wish we had the tri- and multi-team series back. It tests players in multiple different scenarios, qualification games, grand finals etc. That's how we knew guys like Yuvi and Kaif had the big game temperament. You will never ever get that in a bilateral series. Tendulkar's desert storm wouldn't be the same if not for the context! Lose some money and get that back, BCCI.

True, but i guess the ODI league will introduce meaningful matches with pressure situations again

 

[aditya123]

True, but i guess the ODI league will introduce meaningful matches with pressure situations again

Not sure about that. 5 match ODI series will still be the same.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Any tips on how to fight this? I thought I didn`t care about this sport enough. What this shows is like context is everything in sport, for the team and the fan. Here is my assessment.

India last won in 2011 under MSD. We hardly had the best bilateral series win % in the 2008-2011 period. We had better stats under Kohli-Shastri. However, we put several of our players under pressure in that period. For e.g, Asia Cup in 2010, we didn't field a full side. MSD rotated Sachin-Sehwag-Zak and co. Even in the pre-WC series in SA, it was Kohli himself who made a name and then played the Cup. We lost that series but it put players in uncomfortable situations. Knockout matches are uncomfortable, no matter how many games you have won in the past 4 years or the WC league stage. How many innings have any of this middle order played under pressure in any bilateral series? It's not that they cannot, its that they haven't ever been allowed. Most of our ODIs have been formulaic, with the Top 3 getting big tons on good batting tracks, leaving little for the lower order to do. Rather, we lost more games in the bargain but kept putting the lower order in uncomfortable situations. All that the current approach did was shore up stats and get us some ranking points. Also allows the current management to speak big about its 'records' and say things like 'go look at the stats'. If we are honest, in this 4 year period, we`ve lost all the big moments. Guys like Pandya and Pant will go on to win big games. They will hurt from this and learn. Thrust them with more and risk losing. Indian cricket can afford to lose more. Let's not go the SA way. We have the resources but we aren't the best K.O side. Dhoni, we respect all that he has done but there one has to be honest about what he does to run chases. Well played, and a stellar career. Our approach in this game, to begin with, was wrong. We went defensive at a time we had attacking choices. What we did since CT17 took wickets and we changed that to a defensive pick in Bhuvi over Shami. No matter how good a death bowler, you must take wickets up front. A good campaign but if we are honest with ourselves, one that was doomed to fail at some point. Well done on a good campaign in general.

I share your pain but I'm very disappointed with your assessment. I am going to try bang heads with you and try and be reasonable.

Captaincy, as I found out in something as small as league cricket, is all about balance. I suffered a lot because of being over attacking to the point I almost lost the team I spent two years building. But, it taught me a lot. It made me understand the value of balance. My fellow team mates trusted in me and actually backed me for the job. In return, I became a bit more open to being I won't say defensive, but not attacking unnecessarily. But, I refused to budge on my convictions and I never budged on changing my team. Why am I on about this? I see conviction on certain matters with Kohli. He has definitely shaped up Pandya and Rahul along with making Bumrah a world beater. But, some of his choices in crunch games is just mind numbing. The way they treated Rayudu was just absolute rubbish. DK in my opinion, won us the most improbable game in a final and then he just went off the radar in terms of playing consistently and then suddenly returned to the squad when we were guessing it would be Pant or Rayudu?

We had the squad to win in SA, then in ENG and now the WC. We just won in Oz and we all know that, that was Australia's worst time in cricket in centuries. Sharma has got to be made captain. Got to be.

As for today? You played the extra batsman in DK today. We have played the extra batsman right through this WC. How many games has that 'extra' batsman made a match winning contribution. The death bowling is a huge factor in LOI and BK bowled superbly up top. Bumrah got the wicket, but it could easily have been BK. The missed step was not playing Shami. 3 left handers in this line up, Kuldeep has run through NZ this year and he was kept out for Chahal. The extra bowler gives you 10 overs every single game. This conversation would have been entirely different if Pandya's groin would have completely given up after his 4th over. I bet, people here would still want Kedar in and not a proper bowler. The middle order has been a point of contention because 3 people have not played 30-40 games in one position consistently. The name does not matter and today like it has on the odd occasion the top order has failed, the hole was exposed. The worst part is that our template of being conservative at the top and then slowly accelerating even more accentuates the 5 bowlers plus Pandya strategy. The 18 runs today that we were short by could easily have been compensated with the extra bowler, specially if that bowler was Shami. By opting for DK over Shami, you are choosing an in form match winner to sit on the bench for someone just to somehow give you 30 runs.

As for Dhoni in chases? I don't know how many blokes could have carried a chase from 92-6 to within 18 runs of a Final berth. If this job is so easy, why don't the likes of Williamson, Kohli, Root or Smith ever try to do this job in a bilateral? Let alone a WC knockout? The critique of Dhoni is a joke. We didn't lose anything because of him, we might have won another World Cup if he was inches faster. He's not the legend we deserve, just the one we needed. And, just like some legends are treated across the border, a lot of crap is being levied at him and I find it utterly shameless.