Indian tour of South Africa, December-January 2010/11

[TruSachFan]

Awesome win by the boys . Come on guys only one more victory. Time to bury the ghost of Capetown 06.

 

[War]

Hmm, he's 32 right now so he's still got a couple of good years in him if he can keep himself healthy. I see him going into wily veteran mode after that, along the lines of what Pollock did for South Africa.

Pollock didnt exaclty become quality veteran though. Pollock was pretty average when he lost his pace in 2000s era.

So Zaheer if he loses pace anytime in the next year or so. IMO will lose alot of effectiveness which has made him that top quality quick that he has been since 2006/07.

You keep talking about collapsing in the 1st innings, but Saffers didn't do too flash in the second innings, either. No fifties in this match for them (highest was Ashwell's 39 not out) and we were into the lower order/tail after just 42 overs.

Only 1 batsman scored a 50 in the entire game though. Which proves it was bowler friendly pitch quite obviously. Where 200-250 was a par score. So SA 2nd innings batting performance was probably just about par, but their 1st innings 131 wasn't - which is where they lost this test. If they had made even 200 in the 1st innings, the game would have been so much different for them.

I'd be very surprised if SA collapse like that again in their own conditions & i honestly dont expect it.

South Africa should go with a true pitch with good carry and rely on Steyn and Morkel to get the batsmen out. Steyn and Morkel are good enough to keep India <400 on a good track and the Indian bowling is bad enough for the Saffers to be able to put up >400 in most innings'.

Well yes no doubt i wasn't questioning this. I was questioning poster aditya assertion that SA should prepare flat track in Capetown in order to win.

 

[aditya123]

Pollock didnt exaclty become quality veteran though. Pollock was pretty average when he lost his pace in 2000s era.

So Zaheer if he loses pace anytime in the next year or so. IMO will lose alot of effectiveness which has made him that top quality quick that he has been since 2006/07.




Only 1 batsman scored a 50 in the entire game though. Which proves it was bowler friendly pitch quite obviously. Where 200-250 was a par score. So SA 2nd innings batting performance was probably just about par, but their 1st innings 131 wasn't - which is where they lost this test. If they had made even 200 in the 1st innings, the game would have been so much different for them.

I'd be very surprised if SA collapse like that again in their own conditions & i honestly dont expect it.




Well yes no doubt i wasn't questioning this. I was questioning poster aditya assertion that SA should prepare flat track in Capetown in order to win.

The thing with Zak is that he can crank it up when he wants to. For example, with the old ball against Australia at home while it was reversing he was bowling in the 140-145k range in one of the games, I think it was at Bangalore. Also, this was just his comeback game after injury. So his pace will go up with more rhythm.

What has made him so effective is the clever way in which he approaches his bowling. There are spells where he bowls well within himself and suddenly cranks up the pace when he smells wickets.

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Well yes no doubt i wasn't questioning this. I was questioning poster aditya assertion that SA should prepare flat track in Capetown in order to win.

My point about it being flat was not sub-continent like flat. Even a flat track in SA/Aus would have decent carry for Steyn and Morkel.

I still remember Cape Town 2006 where we scored 400+ in the first innings, got a first innings lead of 50 and still lost the test, collapsing to Steyn and Harris in the 2nd innings. That is still fresh in my memory.

 

[Adarsh]

2010 Bowling Stats :
Steyn - Average = 21.41 , SR = 39.0
Z Khan - Average = 21.97, SR = 39.8
Amir - Average = 22.33, SR = 45.7
Anderson - Average = 22.96, SR = 48.7
Swann - Average = 25.96, SR = 54.0

 

[mohit_dude10]

2010 Bowling Stats :
Steyn - Average = 21.41 , SR = 39.0
Z Khan - Average = 21.97, SR = 39.8
Amir - Average = 22.33, SR = 45.7
Anderson - Average = 22.96, SR = 48.7
Swann - Average = 25.96, SR = 54.0

Although this stat shows little difference between those bowlers, but i think Zaheer has been top bowler this year by all means, The whole year India played tests in the sub continent. Where as Steyn,Amir,Anderson bowled in seamer friendly conditions.

 

[TruSachFan]

^ Wait till ZAK bowls in England and the Windies next year. His figures are going to be astounding especially if he decides to retire from the ODIS after the world cup.

 

[War]

South Africa v India: Hashim Amla recalled to Twenty20 squad | Cricket News | South Africa v India | ESPN Cricinfo

Weird decision to recall Amla to the T20 set-up - not a T20 player. D Jacobs who was shotgun the Champions league certainly would have been a better choice.

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Although this stat shows little difference between those bowlers, but i think Zaheer has been top bowler this year by all means, The whole year India played tests in the sub continent. Where as Steyn,Amir,Anderson bowled in seamer friendly conditions.

Steyn played on flat IND, UAE & WI wickets this year & did well FYI. This current series has been the 1st series full series Steyn has gotten bowler friendly decks for 2010.

 

[sohum]

Pollock didnt exaclty become quality veteran though. Pollock was pretty average when he lost his pace in 2000s era.

So Zaheer if he loses pace anytime in the next year or so. IMO will lose alot of effectiveness which has made him that top quality quick that he has been since 2006/07.

Pollock was still very consistent and fell off only during the end of his career. He was a good back-up bowler for a guy who was actually the strike bowler. India will have to unearth such a guy relatively quickly, though.

Zaheer Khan already relies more on wiliness than his pace or seam. He's already lost about 5-10 kilometers an hour on what he started out back as a young gun.

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2010 Bowling Stats :
Steyn - Average = 21.41 , SR = 39.0
Z Khan - Average = 21.97, SR = 39.8
Amir - Average = 22.33, SR = 45.7
Anderson - Average = 22.96, SR = 48.7
Swann - Average = 25.96, SR = 54.0

I'd like to see numbers on wickets taken, as well. Could you get those, please?

 

[Dare]

2010 Bowling Stats :
Steyn - Average = 21.41 , SR = 39.0
Z Khan - Average = 21.97, SR = 39.8
Amir - Average = 22.33, SR = 45.7
Anderson - Average = 22.96, SR = 48.7
Swann - Average = 25.96, SR = 54.0

Although this stat shows little difference between those bowlers, but i think Zaheer has been top bowler this year by all means, The whole year India played tests in the sub continent. Where as Steyn,Amir,Anderson bowled in seamer friendly conditions.

Especially those 15 wickets in 2 tests against Bangladesh.
Steyn was without a doubt the best bowler this year with everyone else fighting for 2nd place.

Anyways a good win for India. Showed allot of grit and fight but still need more then one guy to stand up and perform. South Africa would be hugely disappointed with their batting because the bowlers gave them a great chance to win. I expected the Indian pace bowlers to do better in this test but not Harbhajan.
I expect a few changes in both squads.

I'd like to see numbers on wickets taken, as well. Could you get those, please?

2010 Bowling Stats : Including Bangladesh
Steyn - Average = 21.41 , SR = 39.0 (11 Match, 60 wickets)
Z Khan - Average = 21.97, SR = 39.8 (9 matches, 47 wickets)
Amir - Average = 22.33, SR = 45.7 (7 matches, 33 wickets)
Anderson - Average = 22.96, SR = 48.7 (12 matches, 57 wickets)
Swann - Average = 25.96, SR = 54.0 (14 matches, 64 wickets)

2010 Bowling Stats : Excluding Bangladesh
Steyn - Average = 21.41, SR=3 9.0 (11 matches, 60 wickets)
Z Khan - Average = 23.12, SR= 43.5 (7 matches, 32 wickets)
Amir - Average = 22.33, SR = 45.7 (7 matches, 33 wickets)
Anderson - Average = 22.62, SR= 47.3 (7 matches, 33 wickets)
Swann - Average = 24.95, SR=52 (10 matches, 42 wickets)

Out of the bowlers in the list that Adarsh included only Zaheer Khans strike rate and average go up while Anderson and Swanns numbers improve when you exclude Bangladesh.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

Amla has been one of the best batsmen in the world this year. Judging how "non-twenty20-suited" players like jayawardene, Kallis, tendulkar and dravid in the ipl, have done, it looks like if a batsman is quality he will get runs in any format.

he might not be as good as in tests, but then he wasn't pegged as an ODI player and he's been excellent in that format. definitely worth a try because he's a genuine quality player which, if he adapts to the format, will be invaluable.

 

[Adarsh]

2010 Bowling Stats :
Steyn - 11 Matches , 60 Wickets, Average = 21.41 , SR = 39.0
Z Khan - 9 Matches, 47 Wickets, Average = 21.97, SR = 39.8
Amir - 7 Matches, 33 Wickets, Average = 22.33, SR = 45.7
Anderson - 12 Matches, 57 Wickets, Average = 22.96, SR = 48.7
Morkel - 11 Matches, 49 Wickets, Average = 24.06, SR = 47.4
Swann - 14 Matches, 64 Wickets, Average = 25.96, SR = 54.0

EDIT: No idea how to make a table on here.

Also, in reply to Dare, excluding the two matches against Bangladesh, Zak has played 7 matches with an average of 23. So...that argument is not too valid.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

That stats clearly show how close Steyn and Khan are. Both struggled with injuries

 

[War]

The thing with Zak is that he can crank it up when he wants to. For example, with the old ball against Australia at home while it was reversing he was bowling in the 140-145k range in one of the games, I think it was at Bangalore. Also, this was just his comeback game after injury. So his pace will go up with more rhythm.

What has made him so effective is the clever way in which he approaches his bowling. There are spells where he bowls well within himself and suddenly cranks up the pace when he smells wickets.

Yes no doubt. But uncle Zaheer is already 32 now & is reaching that age where fast bowlers pace certainly begins to decline.
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My point about it being flat was not sub-continent like flat. Even a flat track in SA/Aus would have decent carry for Steyn and Morkel.

I still remember Cape Town 2006 where we scored 400+ in the first innings, got a first innings lead of 50 and still lost the test, collapsing to Steyn and Harris in the 2nd innings. That is still fresh in my memory.

The Centurion pitch certainly was very sub-continental for the majority of that test after IND where bowled out for 136. Plus certain AUS pitches i.e Adelaide plays just like a flat SC wicket.

I have memory of that CT 06 test as well (although a bit vague). Flattish yea.

Capetown is weird pitch. Just last years in the two test in saw their respectively that AUS & ENG played. The March 2009 vs AUS was a real road. But the December 2009 test vs ENG was pretty bowler friendly.

SA would want to have a CT pitch like the one that ENG had to deal to deal with last year, instead of the one AUS got.

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Amla has been one of the best batsmen in the world this year. Judging how "non-twenty20-suited" players like jayawardene, Kallis, tendulkar and dravid in the ipl, have done, it looks like if a batsman is quality he will get runs in any format.

he might not be as good as in tests, but then he wasn't pegged as an ODI player and he's been excellent in that format. definitely worth a try because he's a genuine quality player which, if he adapts to the format, will be invaluable.

The difference with guys like Kallis, Jaya & Tendy when they open is that they actually score @ rate required in T20s.

The way Amla bats ins ODIs is a anchor man type opener like what Dippenaar, Kirsten used to do for SA. He has showed no evidcene that he can step it @ SR over 100.

 

[Dare]

2010 Bowling Stats :
Steyn - 11 Matches , 80 Wickets, Average = 21.41 , SR = 39.0
Z Khan - 9 Matches, 62 Wickets, Average = 21.97, SR = 39.8
Amir - 7 Matches, 54 Wickets, Average = 22.33, SR = 45.7
Anderson - 12 Matches, 58 Wickets, Average = 22.96, SR = 48.7
Morkel - 11 Matches, 49 Wickets, Average = 24.06, SR = 47.4
Swann - 14 Matches, 64 Wickets, Average = 25.96, SR = 54.0

EDIT: No idea how to make a table on here.

Where did you get 8 wickets for Steyn and 62 for Khan or 54 for Aamer? From jan to jan the numbers are different.

 

[shravi]

That stats clearly show how close Steyn and Khan are. Both struggled with injuries

Don't think they're close at all tbh. They're close this year but that's only by looking at this year in isolation. Steyn wins hands down otherwise but that is in no way downplaying Zaheer's achievements. Steyn had a shocker of a series (average wise) in UAE because the pitches were so flat that even an Indian groundsman would be proud of them. That would have lowered his average a fair bit and too be honest, there wasn't much he or even Zaheer could do on those wickets. Very good effort from Zaheer though. He's a world class bowler and has lead our attack brilliantly.

I think this match also goes to show what Harbhajan can do on pitches that offer even a little bit. He becomes a wicket taking threat once again, something he is never able to replicate in India (apart from Kolkata). Hopefully this sends a very strong signal to the BCCI that India should prepare wickets with some juice (albeit not as much as in South Africa) so that he has something to work with.