India's tour of Australia - December/January 2015

[themusketeer]

Its really Funny How hopeless people are these days.......


Saying 4-0 after 1st session of the game.

 

[shravi]

Also noticed that Dhawan is an excellent slip fielder. About time, we have found a good slip fielder.

?

 

[Epic]

Case of speaking too soon.

 

[SaiSrini]

Its really Funny How hopeless people are these days.......

Saying 4-0 after 1st session of the game.

That's how hopeless Indian cricket has been in tests overseas, under the mighty leadership of Dhoni! The Lords 2014 win was a fluke, if not for that, India have been absolute minnows when playing overseas. They have truly played like minnows.

 

[Aalay]

I don't think it is right to blame Dhoni here. We saw what happened under Kohli as well, it was the same thing. Our bowling attack is so raw right now that it is next to impossible to be attacking with them.

 

[Epic]

That's how hopeless Indian cricket has been in tests overseas, under the mighty leadership of Dhoni! The Lords 2014 win was a fluke, if not for that, India have been absolute minnows when playing overseas. They have truly played like minnows.

Dhoni got to captain a good team in 4 overseas tours (New Zealand, Sri Lanka, South Africa and West Indies), of which he won 2 and drew 2, the rest was teams over the hill or inexperienced, shame his legacy will be this, but Kohli and whoever follows him will reap all the rewards from all the overseas tours since the recent South Africa one.

And you can say many things about this team, but played like minnows? That was the team with all the legends you love that embarrassed us in England and Australia, this team rather competed in South Africa vs the best team in the world and were in a position to win a Test, competed vs New Zealand, who sure they were expected to beat and again we were in positions to do so, but nonetheless, they competed, then they competed vs England in 3 Tests, lead 1-0 at one point, sure it all fell apart, but they were there or there abouts, now tell me if our rivals in the sub-continent have even competed to this sort of extent in the aforementioned countries.

Another thing, we haven't played Pakistan or Sri Lanka in the last few years where as everyone has seen England, Australia and South Africa take turns beating each other away from home, maybe if we were provided the same opportunity to tour our rivals in the sub-continent peoples mind wouldn't be so clouded with this notion of failing to compete away from home.

Nonetheless, in a time period where everyone but South Africa are shit overseas, to constantly bang about it is getting quite ridiculous.

 

[icyman]

The mannerism of our defeats does prompt a lot to say 'we play like minnows, in certain cases, even worse than Bangladesh or Afghanistan. Overseas our record is bad. The team just does not compete, no matter what the situation is. We simply surrender ourselves without a fight. Thats what bothers many people.

Why would Dhawan be getting the boot after making an 80 in the 2nd innings and looking like the only Indian batsman bothered out there... and Bhuvi isn't being rushed out there as some of you looking forward to the WC are claiming, if he's fit then he's got to play. On Ojha, if anybody replaced him in the squad, it was Karn, Jadeja's place in the squad is of an all-rounder which is what Akshar is as well.

A solid opening partnership is what can make or break the team. Dhawan's inability to cope with the opening syndrome in his overseas test is a cause of concern for the team.
Akshar has been selected on the basis of his T20 performance, which is not a good indicator of selection. We might as well be making the same mistake we made with Manpreet Gony a few years ago.

now tell me if our rivals in the sub-continent have even competed to this sort of extent in the aforementioned countries.

Sri Lanka beat England in England.
T Dilshan captain them. He then resigned from the post.

Period.

 

[Epic]

The mannerism of our defeats does prompt a lot to say 'we play like minnows, in certain cases, even worse than Bangladesh or Afghanistan. Overseas our record is bad. The team just does not compete, no matter what the situation is. We simply surrender ourselves without a fight. Thats what bothers many people.

The mannerism of our defeats are not those associated with minnows, the results however are (played 11, won 1, drawn 3, lost 7), our overseas record with this team reads a lot worse than it should given our performances imo, we are winning sessions and days, but not matches, which I credit to the team's inexperience.

A solid opening partnership is what can make or break the team. Dhawan's inability to cope with the opening syndrome in his overseas test is a cause of concern for the team.
Akshar has been selected on the basis of his T20 performance, which is not a good indicator of selection. We might as well be making the same mistake we made with Manpreet Gony a few years ago.

I thought he looked solid both opening and batting in the lower order at the Gabba, we dropped him at the wrong time in England where he was just on the verge of form and let's not forget, he was coming off a century in New Zealand then, so I'm glad we haven't done the same here in Australia.

Though inexperienced, Akshar's FC record reads pretty well, if not him, which spinning all-rounder should've replaced Jadeja then?

Sri Lanka beat England in England.
T Dilshan captain them. He then resigned from the post.

Period.

Bit like England beating us in India when we were transitioning our teams, but I'll take it, so 1 series win away in England, Australia and South Africa for our sub-continent rivals, still reads pretty poorly.

 

[grkrama]

Sri Lanka beat England in England.

in a 2 test match series if india had also played a two test match series we would have had the series. 1-0 at lords.

 

[PokerAce]

That's how hopeless Indian cricket has been in tests overseas, under the mighty leadership of Dhoni! The Lords 2014 win was a fluke, if not for that, India have been absolute minnows when playing overseas. They have truly played like minnows.

Err... care to talk about our home record under the "mighty Dhoni". 66% win rate, the highest ever for any Indian skipper and by some distance (Ganguly is 2nd at somewhere in the 40s). Also, since suddenly we have an obsession with only doing well overseas, in terms of overseas wins MSD has the second highest number of test wins ever for an Indian skipper overseas. Second only to Ganguly.
Also forget winning individual test matches, and lets talk about winning Overseas Test Series, MSD has won India 2 overseas test series, in NZ and WI. In winning two series overseas, MSD is joint highest with Dravid who also won India 2 overseas series and ahead of Ganguly whose one away win came against Zim. When MSD had a team he could win with he did as well, if not better than anyone overseas before him. Why can you ppl not recognise that he no longer has a team than can win overseas. Where is the bowling to take 20 wickets. Where is the consistency in the batting. Look at the batting collapses we have, regularly losing wickets in bulk. No bowling, no batting consistency and instead of focusing on addressing these basics, you wanna hang the captain. Funny!!

Lastly over criticising can often lead to this - you are calling one of the finest overseas wins India have had a fluke !! Put into bat on a green pitch, against an attack led by Anderson and Co., India fought on to take a win on the final day. One of the finest wins overseas, and ppl lose its value because you have to be over-critical. How the batting collapses of the next three tests can be blamed on MSD is beyond me. The team in one session kept getting reduced to 23/5 type scores, and you want to blame Dhoni for that !! What is he supposed to do, bat for all 11 batsmen? He can bat only for himself, and I remember him doing a super job in England when faced with such abysmal scores, and it was his sole grit alone that got India from ridiculous scores of 23/5 types to near 150 and 200.

I like how ppl become obsessed with focusing on just one part of the story and ignore everything else. Its all about the "now". If Dhoni wins he is the greatest thing since sliced bread, if he loses the worst ever.

 

[icyman]

The mannerism of our defeats are not those associated with minnows, the results however are (played 11, won 1, drawn 3, lost 7), our overseas record with this team reads a lot worse than it should given our performances imo, we are winning sessions and days, but not matches, which I credit to the team's inexperience.

World Champions do not whinge and cry and complain about every single thing. This current side does it all. I agree that the performance of late has been much better. However, the time taken to achieve it is quite dismal- 4 years is too long a time.

Bit like England beating us in India when we were transitioning our teams, but I'll take it, so 1 series win away in England, Australia and South Africa for our sub-continent rivals, still reads pretty poorly.

Note that this one series win by SRL comes at a time when their Board is not in the best of its condition. India plays a lot, has good infrastructure, the access to the best of coaches, but we still dont play up to our potential. SRL ,o n the other hand, came to Eng, got slaughtered in the first test, shot back in the second. This is what you want.

in a 2 test match series if india had also played a two test match series we would have had the series. 1-0 at lords.

The ultimate result of the series was a 1-1 and that saves a country lot of blushes than going down 2-1. India have had their chances in 2 match ,3 series of which they havent been able to do much.


I'll also go to the extent of saying the 'Indian team is like caterpillars abroad. Slow, sluggish ,incapable of any attack. The moment they take off from the foreign land, they metamorphose into beautiful butterflies, who are worshipped by fans back home..'

And therein lies the difference in our performance.

 

[icyman]

Err... care to talk about our home record under the "mighty Dhoni". 66% win rate, the highest ever for any Indian skipper and by some distance (Ganguly is 2nd at somewhere in the 40s). Also, since suddenly we have an obsession with only doing well overseas, in terms of overseas wins MSD has the second highest number of test wins ever for an Indian skipper overseas. Second only to Ganguly.

How the batting collapses of the next three tests can be blamed on MSD is beyond me. The team in one session kept getting reduced to 23/5 type scores, and you want to blame Dhoni for that !! What is he supposed to do, bat for all 11 batsmen? He can bat only for himself, and I remember him doing a super job in England when faced with such abysmal scores, and it was his sole grit alone that got India from ridiculous scores of 23/5 types to near 150 and 200.

Obsession ? You call your team the World Champion, tout them as No.1 in Test matches and the same team goes down 0-8 in away Test. The same team goes down 0-11 in away Tests under MSD

Batting collapses, dont blame on MSD. But, blame the persisted selection on MSD. Time and again, we have seen that he is reluctant to make changes in the playing XI. In fact, there was a time when we kept on playing the losing XI in successive test matches. With Shashtri as Team Director, there have been certain changes in that outlook. (like today, Lokesh Rahul coming for 'The Immovable Sharma'. The problem with MSD is that he tends to not to change the team even when the performance of certain individuals in in the dump. Ditto with field placements.

And why talk about the home record ?
Like I mentioned in my earlier posts, the team resembles caterpillars abroad, but butterflies at home.

 

[Epic]

World Champions do not whinge and cry and complain about every single thing. This current side does it all. I agree that the performance of late has been much better. However, the time taken to achieve it is quite dismal- 4 years is too long a time.

While it might feel like 4 years, the core of this team was put together over the course of 3 Test series' at home 2 years ago, it started with the series win vs New Zealand, further changed in the series defeat vs England and completed with the series win vs Australia.

Note that this one series win by SRL comes at a time when their Board is not in the best of its condition. India plays a lot, has good infrastructure, the access to the best of coaches, but we still dont play up to our potential. SRL ,o n the other hand, came to Eng, got slaughtered in the first test, shot back in the second. This is what you want.

Also note that this one series win also came at the back of England's 0-5 whitewash in Australia, I take nothing away from Sri Lanka, but England were in such a vulnerable position at the time that it's hard to not bring that up.

 

[PokerAce]

Obsession ? You call your team the World Champion, tout them as No.1 in Test matches and the same team goes down 0-8 in away Test. The same team goes down 0-11 in away Tests under MSD

Eh, did u even read the post. When did I say we are the #1 test side in the world. If anything I have emphasised that we no longer have a side capable of winning a test series away. A bowling attack that cannot take 20 wickets, and a batting side that must have one collapse per innings is not a side that can win series overseas. Thats the comparison I made. When MSD had a side capable of winning away, the guy did as good, if not better than all before him in terms of overseas results. Right now the side is not ready to win away. So instead of focusing on sacking the captain, how about we focus on the basics of getting a bowling unit capable of 20 wickets again. No captain can win without a bowling unit capable of 20 wickets a tests.

Batting collapses, dont blame on MSD. But, blame the persisted selection on MSD. Time and again, we have seen that he is reluctant to make changes in the playing XI. In fact, there was a time when we kept on playing the losing XI in successive test matches. With Shashtri as Team Director, there have been certain changes in that outlook. (like today, Lokesh Rahul coming for 'The Immovable Sharma'. The problem with MSD is that he tends to not to change the team even when the performance of certain individuals in in the dump. Ditto with field placements.

Oh so who among Pujara, Kohli and Rahane would u have dropped on the Eng tour. Those three are our future, and we have to live with the failures they have in early in their careers. Pujara and Kohli were in the rut of their life in Eng, but dropping them would have been nonsense. Short of those three though, who really got a long rope do you think? Dhawan was promptly dropped, in the bowling there has been constant changes. Bhuvi being the only consistant figure an he deserves to be for his form. Apart from that India have tried all kind and manner of players, Binny, Pakaj Singh, Jadeja, 2 spinners, 1 spinner, you really wanna tell me there were no changes done? Just look at the Eng tour, virtually all 18 players who went on tour got a game. All kind and manner of things were tried, they didn't work. Even in Aus, the necessary changes have been made on a test by test basis. Rohit dropped, Varun dropped, Rahul getting a game is something I am excited about. Things are being tried, the overall quality just isn't there anymore.

And why talk about the home record ?
Like I mentioned in my earlier posts, the team resembles caterpillars abroad, but butterflies at home.

And why not talk about home record? Simply because it gets in the way of all the MSD hate is no reason to ignore it. Look at Clarke's record in Asia, not one test win and 2 whitewashes. Does it make him a terrible captain? India no longer have a team that could win a series overseas. While they did though, MSD did better than most before him. Thats the undeniable fact. First focus on getting the team ready again, instead of doing the typical critic thing and immediately going for the captain. With this side not even Steve Waugh could win India a series overseas.

 

[icyman]

My dear friend, its not only about 4 years of effort. Why dont you understand that the same team performs stupendously at home. Abroad, they are at the level of minnows or even worse. This intermittent performance is a real put-off for many spectators.

You talk of England,s vulnerability. Why dont we mention the fragility of the Australians during the current series (post Hughes death) ? The previous tour to Asutralia, they were dubbed as the weakest Aussie team, why didnt India seize the initiative then ?

Lets talk of the WI tour wherein we did not chase a target well within our reach ? Who decides this ? Obviously its the captain. I have no doubt that, in the same scenario in Adelaide, MSD's boys would not have gone for the target

Oh so who among Pujara, Kohli and Rahane would u have dropped on the Eng tour. Those three are our future, and we have to live with the failures they have in early in their careers. Pujara and Kohli were in the rut of their life in Eng, but dropping them would have been nonsense. Short of those three though, who really got a long rope do you think?

I am talking of the long rope given to Rohit Sharma in all formats. Plus, if you have non-performers, chuck them out. Thats the only way they will learn. Continued persistence with a failing batting order is not good for any team.

Heck, even Bangaldesh makes changes when the top order does not fire and it works for them.

Look at Clarke's record in Asia, not one test win and 2 whitewashes. Does it make him a terrible captain?

Lets compare once Clarke has captained 11 matches in the subcontinent and lost all 11 of them. (on the trot). Comparison is not justified. However, having said that the CA was probing an alternative to Micheal Clarke the skipper. The BCCI does not do anything of that sort cause he is the vice-president of India Cements.[DOUBLEPOST=1419577208][/DOUBLEPOST]

And why not talk about home record? Simply because it gets in the way of all the MSD hate is no reason to ignore it.

There is no hate revolving around MSD. The fact is the BCCI tends to hide his overseas record by camouflaging it with his home one or even the ODI aspect.