India's tour of Pakistan, 2008-09, 3 Tests and 5 ODIs
- Thread starter Insomniac
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Insomniac
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I think we need Afridi in the test series to demolish.
4 sixes in an over anyone?
4 sixes in an over anyone?
Cricketman
ICC Chairman
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What a snore. Another India - Pakistan series.
It's an overload really. There's too much India v Pakistan cricket going around. It should be like the Ashes - once every 3 to 4 years, something we should all hype up and anticipate. And no offense to Pakistan but there would be more of a spark if they got a little bit better as a team tbh. Get in a better captain (Misbah?) bring in Shoaib Akthar, and give me some sporting pitches and I might watch this series.
It's an overload really. There's too much India v Pakistan cricket going around. It should be like the Ashes - once every 3 to 4 years, something we should all hype up and anticipate. And no offense to Pakistan but there would be more of a spark if they got a little bit better as a team tbh. Get in a better captain (Misbah?) bring in Shoaib Akthar, and give me some sporting pitches and I might watch this series.
Insomniac
Title Recipient
Ashes is every 1 1/2 years, just saying.
Also, look at post 1 - the comparision in batting supports India, but in bowling, Pakistan go easily in front.
I can see scores like this in this upcoming series:
India 376 all out
Pakistan 388 all out
India 288 all out
Pakistan get close, or falter at the end (close finish)
Oh, and I forgot, the matches are probably going to be Rawalpindi, Multan, and Faislabad, so expect interesting pitches to say the least.
Leicester Fox
Chairman of Selectors
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Ashes is twice every 4 years actually Doesn't work out like that, has gap of 1 and a half and 2 and a half.
do agree that they are kind of killing the rivalry, they should play less often and if they're going to play in torunaments like the asia cup try and avoid playing each other more than once. Anyway good to see Pakistan back playing test cricket. at last.
Doesn't work out like that, has gap of 1 and a half and 2 and a half. do agree that they are kind of killing the rivalry, they should play less often and if they're going to play in torunaments like the asia cup try and avoid playing each other more than once. Anyway good to see Pakistan back playing test cricket. at last.
Cricketman
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Erm, I'm not sure about Pakistan being ahead in bowling either man.
Kumble
Zaheer
Ishant
Bhajji
Three of them are in the form of their lives and the other has 600 wickets in his belt.
Kumble
Zaheer
Ishant
Bhajji
Three of them are in the form of their lives and the other has 600 wickets in his belt.
Insomniac
Title Recipient
Let's look at this logically:
Kaneria < Kumble
Akhtar > Zaheer
Gul > or = Ishant
Asif (if he gets his self sorted) > Bhajji
And if its not Asif,
Tanvir > Bhajji
The reason I say Tanvir > Bhajji is that Rawalpindi, Multan, and Faislabad do not spin. They are more "pace orientated", and thats why I had Pathan in the team over Harbhajahn.
If we have a test in Lahore or Karachi, put Bhajji in, but it may be a move that will hurt India.
And Bhajji's figures v Pakistan are nothing to speak of - averages 52 in 9 tests. And Harbhajahn has never taken a wicket in Pakistan.
Really the only advantage in there is Anil Kumble, and even he averages 32 v Pakistan (career avg 29.33)
Not sure where your point about India being ahead in bowling comes from, other than Anil Kumble. And I'm not banking on another 10 wicket haul
Cricketman
ICC Chairman
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Zaheer is in the form of his life and Ishant is far better then Gul.
sohum
Executive member
I don't think Tanvir > Harbhajan unless it is really, really overcast. Once you adjust to Tanvir's action, I don't think there should be too much trouble playing him out.
Was Pakistan's last Test series against India?
Was Pakistan's last Test series against India?
Insomniac
Title Recipient
Harbhajahn has never taken a wicket in Pakistan, and averages over 50 against Pakistan after 9 tests.
And he hasn't given any indication (no major changes in armory) that suggest that bowling average is going to drop.
sohum
Executive member
He hasn't changed anything in his armory but if you watched him against Sri Lanka, he was finally back to actually looping and flighting the ball, something that stopped happening for a long while. I believe he is actually more dangerous than Kumble, at this point, since I feel like Kumble's biggest tool these days is strangling the batsman's scoring rate.
Also, Bhajji has played a total of 2 matches in Pakistan, both of which were on flat tracks and both matches ended as draws.
The 1st Test in Lahore saw 8 wickets fall in total (only 1 innings per team)
The 2nd Test in Faisalabad saw 3 consecutive innings almost hit 500 (the 3rd one was 490).
To attribute that singly to Harbhajan's failure would be unfair.
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Insomniac
Title Recipient
Ah, I didn't notice matches played.
But either way, an average of 50?
Eh...
Also, for Cricketman:
Umar Gul: 31.55
Ishant Sharma: 36.21
Only a difference of 7 tests between the 2 bowlers (Ishant 9, Gul 16)
And Ishant does look a bit lifeless on subcontinent pitches, other than that great spell in Sri Lanka where he took like 4 wickets for 20 runs in 18 overs (something like that)
Danish Kaneria: 33.90
Anil Kumble: 29.33
So as I said earlier, Anil is better than Kaneria (rightly so)
Shoaib Akhtar: 25.69
Zaheer Khan: 34.06
Big difference there.
Pakistan bowlers > Indian bowlers
Indian batsmen > Pakistan batsmen (unless the Fab 4 put in another spectacular performance
)
sohum
Executive member
Since you're so convinced that averages are the most accurate way to go:
Shoaib vs. Zaheer
Shoaib vs. India in Pakistan: 50.00
Zaheer vs. Pakistan in Pakistan: 40.90
Zaheer appears to have an advantage, albeit with a smaller dataset.
Gul vs. Sharma
Since Sharma hasn't played in Pakistan, I'm going to use average against opposition:
Gul vs. India: 16.00
Sharma vs. Pakistan: 28.00
Keep in mind that this is based on a dataset of 1, so not exactly the most accurate representation. Both players have played 1 match against the other (not the same one, either). Gul took 6 and Ishant took 5. Ishant took 5 wickets in a match where spinners took 14 of the 33 wickets fell, and Gul took his 6 in a match where 23 of the 31 wickets to fall were taken by pace bowlers.
Kaneria vs. Kumble
Kaneria vs. India in Pakistan: 46.41
Kumble vs. Pakistan in Pakistan: 42.41
So you see, the difference is not as large as you make it out to be. It seems that both these spinners are largely useless in Pakistan. But Kumble is still better.
Shoaib vs. Zaheer
Shoaib vs. India in Pakistan: 50.00
Zaheer vs. Pakistan in Pakistan: 40.90
Zaheer appears to have an advantage, albeit with a smaller dataset.
Gul vs. Sharma
Since Sharma hasn't played in Pakistan, I'm going to use average against opposition:
Gul vs. India: 16.00
Sharma vs. Pakistan: 28.00
Keep in mind that this is based on a dataset of 1, so not exactly the most accurate representation. Both players have played 1 match against the other (not the same one, either). Gul took 6 and Ishant took 5. Ishant took 5 wickets in a match where spinners took 14 of the 33 wickets fell, and Gul took his 6 in a match where 23 of the 31 wickets to fall were taken by pace bowlers.
Kaneria vs. Kumble
Kaneria vs. India in Pakistan: 46.41
Kumble vs. Pakistan in Pakistan: 42.41
So you see, the difference is not as large as you make it out to be. It seems that both these spinners are largely useless in Pakistan. But Kumble is still better.
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Insomniac
Title Recipient
Well I already said Kumble was better, so not sure why you felt you had to post that.
Just saying, Zaheers only played 3 tests in Pakistan (possibly inaccurate)?
And secondly we're playing on pitches that are new and bowler friendly, I doubt that the in Pakistan statistic is the way to go since its quite meaningless since the pitches will be different (slightly similar to the Karachi 2006 one)
Zaheer v Pakistan: 47.29
Akhtar v India: 34.50
That gives us a wider dataset, and a slightly accurate comparison.
Also, you could just use Gul and Sharma's career averages to get an accurate representation as well.
What if Asif came back?
This debate would be over nearly instantaneously then (on the bowlers)Similar threads
