as long as we can keep him out of bollywood.
India's tour of Pakistan, 2008-09, 3 Tests and 5 ODIs
- Thread starter Insomniac
- Start date
as long as we can keep him out of bollywood.
I'll watch this series, of course, I mean there's no India match that I don't watch, but honestly, on the painstakingly boring Pakistani pitches, we all know the end result: 0-0.
And for this rivalry to come to life again, firstly obviously less India Pakistan matches need to be played, secondly Pakistan need to get better - I'd call them probably the sixth ranked team in the world at the moment, while I'd probably call India the 3rd. There's a huge gap of not so much talent, but definitely skill and consistency for Pakistan to beat India.
If Pakistan do end up winning, I'll be impressed. Not happy at the result obviously, but I'll definitely be happy that this rivalry can be alive again. Rawilpindi has a history of good pitches, so if the small chance that it'll be a great pitch does happen, it'll certainly be great to watch, and i really hope that the pitches are built completely to support Pakistan - then there'll be a contest, and a good one.
But the way things are going now - meh . . .
And for this rivalry to come to life again, firstly obviously less India Pakistan matches need to be played, secondly Pakistan need to get better - I'd call them probably the sixth ranked team in the world at the moment, while I'd probably call India the 3rd. There's a huge gap of not so much talent, but definitely skill and consistency for Pakistan to beat India.
If Pakistan do end up winning, I'll be impressed. Not happy at the result obviously, but I'll definitely be happy that this rivalry can be alive again. Rawilpindi has a history of good pitches, so if the small chance that it'll be a great pitch does happen, it'll certainly be great to watch, and i really hope that the pitches are built completely to support Pakistan - then there'll be a contest, and a good one.
But the way things are going now - meh . . .
What if Zaheer/Ishant/RP/Sreesanth run through the Pakistan batting line up on a lively pitch? These days, teams are preparing more dull pitches to negate the advantage that the Indian bowlers also get. Thats why our performances abroad have shown a marked upward swing, whereas our performances at home have shown diminishing returns.
Ayub 95
Club Cricketer
Boring.............. YAWN YAWN.....................
0-0 what is the point in this imo
0-0 what is the point in this imo
Insomniac
Title Recipient
He's playing for Surrey right now so let's see how that goes.
And Umar Gul is fit, ever since he remodeled his action. Just that Asia Cup injury, but so far so good. He was ready for the ICC CT, and I doubt that is likely to change.
zMario added 19 Minutes and 53 Seconds later...
Funny how when we made a pitch to support Pakistan Indian fans were up in arms about how the first 2 tests were boring draws, (well the first test was largely affected by rain, so pitch really had nothing to do with that), but when we prepared a green-deck for India on the 3rd test, everybody was up in arms about how it was unfair
Oh, and boring Pakistan pitches? Hmm.
India has 189 draws in test match cricket - 44.9%
Pakistan has 144 draws in test match cricket - 43%
Those are all the test matches played in India and in Pakistan.
Since 2000:
Pakistan has hosted 30 test matches - 8 have been draws. 26.7% of games in Pakistan have turned out to be draws.
India has hosted 38 test matches - 14 have been draws. 36.8% of games hosted in India have turned out to be draws.
http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru...al1=span;template=results;type=team;view=host
http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru...al1=span;template=results;type=team;view=host
Shall we go further?
Since 2003:
Pakistan has hosted 21 test matches at home 6 have been draws. 28.6% of matches played in Pakistan are draws.
India have hosted 23 test matches. 10 have been draws. 43.5% of matches played in India have been draws.
http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru...al1=span;template=results;type=team;view=host
http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru...al1=span;template=results;type=team;view=host
Hmm. I just wonder. Is an Indian fan wrong?!
Also sai, I'm not sure where your theory comes in. If Asif was to play, I'd rather we play a swing bowler, because I'm sure our swing bowlers are better than yours
Of course, we did agree to allow that argument to subside, so it can till December.
Also sai, I'm not sure where your theory comes in. If Asif was to play, I'd rather we play a swing bowler, because I'm sure our swing bowlers are better than yours
Of course, we did agree to allow that argument to subside, so it can till December.
Which theory of mine are you talking about?
Insomniac
Title Recipient
This one.
I'm just saying (please ignore the drugs saga out of this, thats for Asif and his lawyer to deal with) Asif is a bigger and better swing bowler than Sreesanth, Ishant, and possibly / probably Zaheer.
Is Ishant a swing bowler by any means by the way?
Cricketman
ICC Chairman
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2005
- Location
- USA
Did anyone say Indian pitches were good, zMario? Stop comparing the two nations at every single opportunity. We make one small comment that could help make this series from a boring runfest to something that could spark the rivalry again and you just pull up random stats out of your rear end that no body really wants to see.
Seriously, get a grip and stop this comparison non sense.
Seriously, get a grip and stop this comparison non sense.
Honestly they should never have test matches at India or Pakistan. Move them to SA, England, or Aussie :P
Insomniac
Title Recipient
He obviously thinks Indian pitches are better. And how the hell is one small comment on a forum going to change the pitches we make? How foolish.
Random stats? Heck, they prove we have better pitches than you, thats for sure.
Oh, and whats a forum for if we don't compare? Are we just to applaud India's cricketing achievements on this forum, and thats it? No debate? Hmm.
Sounds like everything just comes to you in life Cricketman, doesn't it? Isn't somebody being foolish now.
zMario added 10 Minutes and 9 Seconds later...
And since some Indian fans feel that Pakistani pitches are so bad, let's look at this:
ROW since 2000 (home games Draw %): 23.2%
Pakistan since 2000 (home games Draw %): 26.7%
ROW (without Australia, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, and South Africa) since 2000: 28.2%
Now the reason I do not include Bangladesh and Zimbabwe is that its their skill, rather than the pitches which cause results.
And I don't include Australia and South Africa since they are always too hard to beat at home, and therefore you would rarely see a draw in those countries due to the skill of those countries (in home conditions)
Burned.
sohum
Executive member
If you remove Bangladesh and Zimbabwe pitches then you might as well remove any matches they play in Pakistan as well. Unless you're suggesting that lack of skill is only a non-factor when they play at home.
Secondly, if you want to remove Australia and South Africa because they are at home, then you should also remove subcontinental pitches for touring non-subcontinental sides and non-subcontinental pitches for touring subcontinental sides, since we always seem to find that the touring sides find it hard to win in those cases.
Basically, all the logic behind you removing certain pitches is obviously driven towards attempting to get a conclusion, rather being based on a valid premise.
Secondly, if you want to remove Australia and South Africa because they are at home, then you should also remove subcontinental pitches for touring non-subcontinental sides and non-subcontinental pitches for touring subcontinental sides, since we always seem to find that the touring sides find it hard to win in those cases.
Basically, all the logic behind you removing certain pitches is obviously driven towards attempting to get a conclusion, rather being based on a valid premise.
Insomniac
Title Recipient
Very true, I see the point you have. Although the post above it is a fair comparison...
sohum
Executive member
It is only fair if you are interested in an inaccurate conclusion.
Insomniac
Title Recipient
It is inaccurate, but I am only showing a bit of hypocrisy from India2011 and others such as Cricketman who seem to have a painted picture of Pakistani pitches being a belter, which is not true when compared to their own team.
Now if India2011 was to come out and say that India was defnitely more of a "worse Test venue" than Pakistan, but did not mention that in his post, then I would have to apologize for assuming.
However, I believe it is safe to say at this stage that he had no idea of the statistics regarding Pakistan and India as test venues, although he will need to clarify that.
I'm not saying Pakistan produces the most test results, but %wise, it definitely does (when compared to India).
Oh, just to clarify something. I am comparing to India because of 2 factors:
1 is, we are playing against India in this series.
2 is, the user making the accusation is from India, so naturally I would compare to his side first, unless he already thought India had more "belter" pitches than Pakistan, but didn't / forgot to mention it.
sohum
Executive member
I argue that your statistics prove nothing. And hence if you look at the original stats that you provided, one can only claim that Pakistan is more likely to have a draw.
If you really want to conduct an analysis based on pitches, do the following and I will take you seriously:
- Discount matches featuring Bangladesh
- Discount matches featuring Zimbabwe since the Mugabe reign
- Discount rain-affected matches
Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are the only exceptions I think can reasonably allowed for a large difference in skill level. Taking South Africa and Australia out is silly especially since teams have won games there (namely, India).
And if you stop comparing it to Indian pitches at each stage, your results will be taken more seriously. There is no hypocrisy in making a statement about the other team. Hypocrisy is when you say something and do something else. It would be hypocritical if Indian groundsmen accused Pakistani pitches of being dead. I don't think India2011 or Cricketman are groundsmen so that argument is completely invalid.
If you really want to conduct an analysis based on pitches, do the following and I will take you seriously:
- Discount matches featuring Bangladesh
- Discount matches featuring Zimbabwe since the Mugabe reign
- Discount rain-affected matches
Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are the only exceptions I think can reasonably allowed for a large difference in skill level. Taking South Africa and Australia out is silly especially since teams have won games there (namely, India).
And if you stop comparing it to Indian pitches at each stage, your results will be taken more seriously. There is no hypocrisy in making a statement about the other team. Hypocrisy is when you say something and do something else. It would be hypocritical if Indian groundsmen accused Pakistani pitches of being dead. I don't think India2011 or Cricketman are groundsmen so that argument is completely invalid.
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