Is this a British Isles thing?
Ireland tour of West Indies 2022
- Thread starter NILAYSHAH60
- Start date
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
Further to this though, I cannot overstate how much this is the case even with the addition of the Munster Reds to the full 2021 domestic program.
The modern ODI team usually looks somewhat like this:
Two accumulators (usually in the top four)- Five boundary hitters (two of whom usually target the powerplay)
- One "firefighter" (who has the coolest head to deal with high pressure situations)
- A gloveman (ideally a good one)
- One express pace bowler
- One "death" bowler who's a banker in high-pressure overs
- Two attacking bowlers (who primarily seek to take wickets, ideally at least one spinner)
- Two stock bowlers (who primarily seek to restrict runs, ideally at least one spinner)
- This balance requires at least four dual-role players to balance the team.
At present, the dual-role players of choice seem to be:
- Andy McBrine (accumulator/semi-stock spinner)
- Curtis Campher (accumulator/stock seamer)
- Simi Singh (middle-order hitter/attacking spinner)
- George Dockrell (firefighter/stock spinner)
- Lorcan Tucker (middle-order hitter/gloveman)
- Mark Adair (lower-order hitter/death bowler)
Then there's the matter of the hitters; even if you take the charitable view that Simi Singh (avg 22, SR 71), Lorcan Tucker (20, 71) and Adair (19, 101) are adequate middle and lower order hitting options, who really fits alongside Stirling (39, 86 - genuinely excellent numbers) as a powerplay hitter? The only sane options at present seem to be to either back Gareth Delany (17, 85 - just sank as low as number eight due to lack of runs) or to forego one entirely, which is how McBrine got promoted as an accumulator.
There's a lot of square pegs in round holes, especially once one starts trying to fit in all of Harry Tector, Curtis Campher and George Dockrell who'd probably all like to bat at five.
If I were picking a team at present, it'd likely be:
- Paul Stirling (hitter)
- Gareth Delany (hitter)
- Andy Balbirnie (accumulator)
- Harry Tector (accumulator)
- Curtis Campher (accumulator/stock seamer)
- Andy McBrine (firefighter/stock spinner)
- Simi Singh (hitter/attacking spinner)
- Mark Adair (hitter/death bowler)
- Neil Rock (gloveman)
- Craig Young (attacking seamer)
- Josh Little (
expresssome pace)
Oh and I'm not even going to touch on the bench strength.
Irish cricket is run on about a third the budget of Zimbabwean cricket, and has had basically all its marquee fixtures cancelled for two years, as well as twice falling for the idea of the Euro T20 Scam - a league which I do not expect ever to happen.
Even before this, the CEO was spending his own money to keep the debtors at bay.
NILAYSHAH60
Dreamcatcher
Doesn't it seem like the Indian team of the 20th century who used to bat their Wicket-Keepers below their bowlers. Syed Kirmani and Nayan Mongia are big examples. Is it because they lack batters who can keep?
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
Essentially yes.
Across our four domestic teams there's not an enormous amount of choice:
- Leinster have Lorcan Tucker who's played 48 international games averaging 19, can't play a forward defence and whose keeping I'm not convinced by
- Munster have Peter Moor, who isn't Irish qualified yet
- The North have Neil Rock, who's arguably the best keeper (I think he passes the eye test at least) but averages six and a half with the bat in his international career so far
- North West have Stephen Doheny, who's not always been a full-time keeper but is quite highly rated.
If Ireland wanted to get creative I think Ben Dunk has Irish citizenship, but he's also bang average behind the stumps so may not solve that problem.
CerealKiller
Staff Member
Kolpak could theoretically be a thing in Ireland, right?
karolkarol
International Cricketer
Further to this though, I cannot overstate how much this is the case even with the addition of the Munster Reds to the full 2021 domestic program.
The modern ODI team usually looks somewhat like this:
If you're picking an Aussie, English or Indian team that's theoretically not too tricky. If you're picking an Irish team that becomes much trickier because of the lack of dual-role players and big hitters.
At present, the dual-role players of choice seem to be:
These aren't bad cricketers, but it's hard to say they match up that well against more established nations. Andy McBrine for instance is far more of a firefighter at number six or seven than a number three accumulator, even though he's just had quite possibly a career series in the latter role.
Then there's the matter of the hitters; even if you take the charitable view that Simi Singh (avg 22, SR 71), Lorcan Tucker (20, 71) and Adair (19, 101) are adequate middle and lower order hitting options, who really fits alongside Stirling (39, 86 - genuinely excellent numbers) as a powerplay hitter? The only sane options at present seem to be to either back Gareth Delany (17, 85 - just sank as low as number eight due to lack of runs) or to forego one entirely, which is how McBrine got promoted as an accumulator.
There's a lot of square pegs in round holes, especially once one starts trying to fit in all of Harry Tector, Curtis Campher and George Dockrell who'd probably all like to bat at five.
If I were picking a team at present, it'd likely be:
Sure enough, I've managed to pick too many accumulators, an old school pinch-hitter, and a keeper who bats at nine. Very 2002 and it's the best possible balance.
expresssome pace)
Oh and I'm not even going to touch on the bench strength.
Irish cricket is run on about a third the budget of Zimbabwean cricket, and has had basically all its marquee fixtures cancelled for two years, as well as twice falling for the idea of the Euro T20 Scam - a league which I do not expect ever to happen.
Even before this, the CEO was spending his own money to keep the debtors at bay.
Given the budgets involved and the recent establishment of first class cricket in Ireland I'd say we're doing remarkably well. Looking at Sri Lanka or New Zealand as test playing nations, it took them a considerable amount of time to become competitive.
Ireland have some decent young players (if not world beaters at the minute) in Little, Rock, Campher, Tector x 2, Doheny, Garth, White so the future is bright if they can be kept on the right path. What we seem to have done well over the past few years is keeping the Wolves playing semi regularly, giving these guys exposure and integrating the likes of Graham Hume, Ruhan Pretorious, Murray Commins, I think that's been key whilst we haven't been playing tests.
COYBIG
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
I'm not sure whether the Kolpak ruling itself might have expired, but the precedent it set could be applied - and indeed is, with the likes of Murray Commins, Graham Hume, Matt Ford and others
Fully agree with this. If Ireland had the budget and player pool of one of the eight bigger Test nations, they'd most certainly manage it better
NILAYSHAH60
Dreamcatcher
Does that mean the England white-ball Captain plays as an Overseas bat in their domestic arena?
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
No, because it only applies to active Irish internationals. Murtagh also retired for thos reason.
Instead, the former Irish number three was due to play as an overseas in the Euro T20 Scam
NILAYSHAH60
Dreamcatcher
You mean Niall O'Brien or Ed Joyce? Both of them have played as a no.3 as far as my knowledge is concerned.
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
Morgan. He was signed on to play for the Dublin team before the whole thing didn't happen
karolkarol
International Cricketer
Might be a good shout for a few years now he's off the county circuit.
Also, annoying that we've lost Jack Carson, who looks to be pretty good, unfortunately throwing his lot in for a county career & possible England honours.
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
Yep, although I also wouldn't be surprised if Cricket Ireland choose to throw their lot in with Tucker and Rock/Doheny/Moor in preference. Nearly 50 international caps for Poynter, and a record of proven, consistent failure at that level.
karolkarol
International Cricketer
Fair point. I'd prefer it wasn't Moor to be honest given how much he's played for Zimbabwe. I'd say long term it should be Rock but his batting just doesn't seem good enough currently, especially for the short formats.
Doheny seems the most suited from a batting perspective, if not necessarily a keeping one. I'm surprised he doesn't get more of a look in for the 50 over and T20 squads.
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
Rock is one of the best hitters of 70 mph medium pace and non-turning off-spin in Ireland - it just hasn't translated very well to the international scene yet. What he really needs is a couple of winters playing grade cricket against James Pattinson
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