Limiting Piracy of Cricket Games

[puddleduck]

There's a reason none of the mid level brands have really bothered targeting India yet. It's a long term project with regards to building brand loyalty for the next 50 years or so before they have any kind of economic parity amongst their consumers. Some of the massive ones have obviously set their roots in now with the hope it'll eventually bring massive rewards, but tough to get in there now without soaking up the losses, or using the localised Asian labour forces in surrounding nations to offset the reduced RRPs.

 

[Chief]

There's a reason none of the mid level brands have really bothered targeting India yet. It's a long term project with regards to building brand loyalty for the next 50 years or so before they have any kind of economic parity amongst their consumers. Some of the massive ones have obviously set their roots in now with the hope it'll eventually bring massive rewards, but tough to get in there now without soaking up the losses, or using the localised Asian labour forces in surrounding nations to offset the reduced RRPs.

"PEPSI CRICKET REVOLUTION" was hint that the above may well be right IMO.

 

[sahilnatu]

All those claiming "There is lack of awareness" or "Ppl think they're buying legally" n stuff is crap. I'm from India, got loads of friends here. Ppl just dump all the ethics when they see a game priced at Rs 50-100. That's the only thing. No justifications. It's terribly wrong and ppl know it, just that they won't care. Government does nothing about it (hardly have they done anything about anything since its inception in 1947). So, you, me, a few ppl here are almost helpless. It's something the Government must ban, what can we do? We could just hope fr the best.

And Chief, give the game discs as much protection as you can & make it impossible to make CD images (even if that means a price rise of Rs100 or so). When there'll be no pirated discs, even my Indian folks would agree to prices which are currently claimed as high.
This anti piracy thing is stretching a bit far, like a tug of war, no one ready to leave their point. What I said above is a fact though.

 

[MattW]

And Chief, give the game discs as much protection as you can & make it impossible to make CD images

If that were possible, every game would have it.

About the only DRM that's impossible to break is if you never have a client side copy of the game (or at least not one that would function alone) - always on connections downloading the game content after processing on the server-side; technology like OnLive or Gaikai, which would mean you don't own the game and would need a faster connection than most would have.

Based on posts so far I think making sure to have a full dual layer DVD of content and relatively high system requirements would do more to stop piracy than any particular DRM scheme.

 

[Biggs]

All those claiming "There is lack of awareness" or "Ppl think they're buying legally" n stuff is crap. I'm from India, got loads of friends here. Ppl just dump all the ethics when they see a game priced at Rs 50-100.

Thank you. Finally someone being honest...

It's something the Government must ban, what can we do? We could just hope fr the best.

...I don't agree with that though. Not up to governments to legislate this stuff, yes that would would help, but ultimately if you (the consumer) demand "The Real Thing" then you'd put these criminals out of business. That's the difference in attitude, it starts with individuals taking responsibility and saying "no, this isn't right and I know it might be cheaper but it's wrong" ...it starts with us, as individuals first.

WE have the power to change this.

Simple things like saving your money for the real thing or pre-ordering the game in advance are adult, mature ways to make a difference. ...the follow up is telling people that DO buy or sell this stuff that's it's morally reprehensible to do so. Not making excuses for them, shaming them if you will.

Based on posts so far I think making sure to have a full dual layer DVD of content and relatively high system requirements would do more to stop piracy than any particular DRM scheme.

Yup, I think having the game require a decent amount of power from the PC will definitely cut down on copies... and that option you discussed of having a "Developer" feature to mod the game only accessible with a legit version would pretty much seal the deal.

 

[angad]

Yeah, Nike just sponsor India out of the goodness of their own heart, there's no multi-million dollar sponsorship merchandise deal going on! Haha. Don't be naive, it's about as illegal as it gets.

The T-Shirts you are talking about do not carry the name of Nike on them. They just bear the same colour scheme. So yes.....there is nothing wrong with that. And if there was, I am sure Nike would have taken steps to remove these t-shirts as 'everyone' of them know where and how widely these are available. If you want a good quality t-shirt with Nike's original name on it, you have to buy it from the store.

I know exactly how it works. I'm well traveled. The kids (and parents) know the product they are buying isn't legit... as do the sellers. Same thing happens in Thailand, Malaysia and all across the Middle East. The guys selling it tell you it's ripped/copied/pirated software. So you know it's not legit... nobody is passing this off as 'The Real Thing' - the issue is the environment around these people that seem to have absolutely no problem with this going on, which takes away money from the developers who spend hundreds of thousands of dollars making these games to (ultimately) make a living for them and their families.

The question is not whether they know its copied or not, the question is whether they know its illegal or what the effect is on the developer due this purchase of theirs. If for them the pirated stuff is so easily available off the counter with a govt official standing right next to the shop, it would not sound wrong to them at all unless they 'are informed about it'. Do people not know about AIDS???? If they all already do then why the heck is everyone talking about AIDS awareness campaigns all over the world??? Its to educate the people about its source and its evils.

I don't talk to thieves.

Yes, I am sure no one you know or talked to ever had ever in their life downloaded any movie rip or unpaid mp3 or bought/sold used games ever. Nor to developers or publishers of games that promise you the moon at the back page of the disc, but once you buy it you find out its completely broken in the highlighted areas and once the developers have your money in the bag, they dont even bother rectifying the modes that they promised would work like in your dreams before you bought the game (If that is the case, I dont think you really talked to a lot many people then).

Cheers for the attitude... I don't need to see a picture, I've seen them first hand. Appreciate your viewpoint, but I simply don't buy any of it. It's an attitude that HAS to change, and it starts with every individual not making excuses but standing up and being accountable and telling people to buy the original product, supporting developers and educating everyone around you that pirated software is morally wrong.

No one is making any excuses here, but is just pointing out what the sad truth is and how it all can be limited.....i.e. through awareness. You would not convert all of them, as people 'all over the world' still do it 'knowingly', but there is a vast majority of people (specially in India) who are not aware of the consequences of what they are doing, and if they were made aware of it, atleast 'some' of them would surely change, and I can vouch for that seeing that some of us (remember the forum I talked about in my previous post?? + A lot more people not on those forums as well) did change our ways once we were 'aware' of the consequences.

I dont understand you really....on one hand you are are absolutely stuck up on everyone 'knowing' they are doing the wrong thing and then in your last statement talking about 'educating' them its morally wrong.

Anyways, this thread was created asking about how we can limit the piracy of Ashes (actually games in general), and to limit it one needs to know the psyche behind it and whether everyone is doing it knowingly (in which case you really cant do anything can you) or are there other reasons for it as well. And I have tried to put across points which 'I' have seen and noticed and even gone through in my teenage years. Personally it doesnt matter to me at all as I myself (and all my friends who are into gaming) buy the original stuff, because, a) its now available to us easily in malls, b) we are aware of piracy issues and c) It just feels awesome to own an original game. There is something special about it that is just not there in the pirated stuff.

I have nothing to add to my previous comments....so signing off!! Cheers!

All those claiming "There is lack of awareness" or "Ppl think they're buying legally" n stuff is crap. I'm from India, got loads of friends here. Ppl just dump all the ethics when they see a game priced at Rs 50-100. That's the only thing. No justifications. It's terribly wrong and ppl know it, just that they won't care. Government does nothing about it (hardly have they done anything about anything since its inception in 1947). So, you, me, a few ppl here are almost helpless. It's something the Government must ban, what can we do? We could just hope fr the best.

Again you are just talking about a very small percentage of the people who use pirated copies (and are aware of the evils of piracy). Most of them are not aware of the evils of piracy, even if they know they are not buying the original.

Thank you. Finally someone being honest...

Honest, but completely naive to think that the majority of the people playing pirated games are aware of the evils of piracy and consequences of their actions. Knowing it is not original vs knowing the consequences of buying that stuff are completely different.

You are only worried about the developer's interest, but are you aware of the grave 'national' (infact I should say international now) danger of piracy (specially off the shelf sales of such items). There was a news article some years back that showed from where all these pirated copies were originating. Almost 95% of the revenue from the sale of these discs went to the underworld mafia who used the same money to organize attacks against our country. That, for me, was the biggest reason why I should never buy these copies ever again. The reason why I wanted to state this was to highlight the next point below

...I don't agree with that though. Not up to governments to legislate this stuff, yes that would would help, but ultimately if you (the consumer) demand "The Real Thing" then you'd put these criminals out of business. That's the difference in attitude, it starts with individuals taking responsibility and saying "no, this isn't right and I know it might be cheaper but it's wrong" ...it starts with us, as individuals first.

WE have the power to change this.

Simple things like saving your money for the real thing or pre-ordering the game in advance are adult, mature ways to make a difference. ...the follow up is telling people that DO buy or sell this stuff that's it's morally reprehensible to do so. Not making excuses for them, shaming them if you will.

It is absolutely 100% on the govt to legislate this stuff if we are to kill it completely. Morals, Right & Wrong......all these are very subjective and open to perception. What may be morally wrong in your perception maybe the most righteous thing in someone else's perception (and thats why we have rapes, murders, robberies.....and even terrorist attacks in the name of Jihad). There has to be legislation and strict control to prevent the people from doing what is not acceptable by a majority. If everything is left to the people to decide for themselves what is right or wrong without any consequences for choosing the wrong, God protect us!!! What is important though, and thats what I have been talking about all this time, it to provide awareness to the people about what is right or wrong, and then have legislation to control the wrong decisions.

Yup, I think having the game require a decent amount of power from the PC will definitely cut down on copies... and that option you discussed of having a "Developer" feature to mod the game only accessible with a legit version would pretty much seal the deal.

Ok, so what we are saying is, lets have a game that we would like to sell to as many people as we can to earn revenue (main objective), make it as heavy on specs as we can so that those consumers (who anyways would not be buying the original copy and adding to my revenue, as they would still be pirating it) are not able to play it, as since they are pirating the games, we are sure they are poor and would not have a high powered PC. Hmmm...! Who cares that if we actually make a game which has the option to play on low specs as well but with lesser graphics, there might be 'some people' in the market who buys the original game but does not have a high powered graphics card (as I said before, its not the ram or the cpu that is the problem on most pc here....its the onboard graphics card that is not compatible to some of these games) and add to my revenue.

Have to say....brilliant marketing strategy!!! :

 

[Biggs]

The T-Shirts you are talking about do not carry the name of Nike on them.

Yes they did. As did all the football ones carrying Adidas, etc. It's illegal. Move on...

Yes, I am sure no one you know or talked to ever had ever in their life downloaded or bought/sold used games ever. (If that is the case, I dont think you really talked to a lot many people then).

None of my friends play or purchase illegal games. They certainly don't sell them... Because it sucks to do that... I feel sorry for you if you surround yourself with people that think that's okay, or do it. Get better friends would be my advice.

No one is making any excuses here...

Um, yeah. You are. I'm telling you you're wrong, it's okay to admit it.

Personally it doesnt matter to me at all...

That statement there is 100% part of the problem. "Well, I don't do it therefore I don't care about it because I'm being good" ...what would happen if everyone had that same attitude about car theft, robbing a bank murdering people, or rape, or dozens of other abhorrent things. The point is that it SHOULD matter to you that people steal games. It SHOULD matter to you that you want it to stop and you SHOULD stand up and tell people that it's wrong. You're part of the problem.

Morals, Right & Wrong......all these are very subjective and open to perception.

Um, no it's not. Stealing it stealing. It's wrong. There's absolutely no grey area. I'm sure Chief would LOVE to hear about how the theft and any illegal copying of Ashes Cricket 2013 that might happen is "Subjective". Do tell us...

____________

One more...

...lets have a game that we would like to sell to as many people as we can to earn revenue (main objective), make it as heavy on specs as we can so that those consumers (who anyways would not be buying the original copy and adding to my revenue, as they would still be pirating it) are not able to play it, as since they are pirating the games, we are sure they are poor and would not have a high powered PC.

If you don't have the money to have an appropriately spec'd computer to play a next generation PC game, then yeah... you probably don't have the means to purchase the game legally, therefore it doesn't hurt anyone's sales. It's like expecting a developer to release a PS2 version of the game for PS3 users, because you can't afford to buy a PS3.

Life teaches people that not everybody gets to own the cool toys... something I learned when I was very young.

 

[BlitzBerg]

Also, about Zapak....they themselves were a new brand at that time. I guess they were trying to promote themselves as much as AC09 in those days.

Nope. That's because Reliance(who owns Zapak), owns 50% stakes of Codemasters.

 

[sahilnatu]

Nope. That's because Reliance(who owns Zapak), owns 50% stakes of Codemasters.

Nope. Reliance got 50% stakes of Codemasters in early 2010. And, we're talking about AC09 here.

 

[angad]

Yes they did. As did all the football ones carrying Adidas, etc. It's illegal. Move on...

Well I surely haven been to the place that you went to then in India....as the ones I have seen do not bear any brand name. They might have resemblance though, i.e. Adidas spelt as Adedes....that I have seen a lot, but having the exact brand name on them....hmmm...maybe not

None of my friends play or purchase illegal games. They certainly don't sell them... Because it sucks to do that... I feel sorry for you if you surround yourself with people that think that's okay, or do it. Get better friends would be my advice.

I dont remember mentioning anything about any friends. But nonetheless, if they have never in their life sold their copy or the game, or bought a second hand copy, or downloaded any mp3 or dvdrip.....then they really are good friends....so cheers on that !! I do have friends who buy second hand games from their pals or share a game on ps3....and I dont find that reason to break friendship with them !!

Um, yeah. You are. I'm telling you you're wrong, it's okay to admit it.

As I have mentioned before, I am stating what I have seen. Whether you find that as an excuse is upto your interpretation. You have seen a certain section of people based on which you are giving your opinions, while I have seen a wider section of people based on which I have given mine. If Im wrong, I will admit it...but it surely would not be just because Biggs told me so without any reasoning whatsover !

That statement there is 100% part of the problem. "Well, I don't do it therefore I don't care about it because I'm being good" ...what would happen if everyone had that same attitude about car theft, robbing a bank murdering people, or rape, or dozens of other abhorrent things. The point is that it SHOULD matter to you that people steal games. It SHOULD matter to you that you want it to stop and you SHOULD stand up and tell people that it's wrong. You're part of the problem.

That statement 'personally it doesnt matter to me' was pointed towards the fact that what specs, decisions etc AC13 decides to take based on our inputs doesnt matter to me (as opposed to what you are trying to imply, i.e. piracy doesnt matter to me) as 'for me those points are not valid' since I am fortunate to have the stores keeping original games near me, i have the awareness of the evils of piracy, and I love the original disc in my hand, as pointed out in that very post that you quoted! I think my 'concern' for piracy was obvious based on how detailed statements I have been making with regards to the piracy here, and what (according to me) is the situation here, and how (again according to me) it can be dealt with. As for 'You should stand up and tell people its wrong'....well I am actually tired of writing how its important to make people aware (oh shoot me now....am actually writing the same thing for the third time...but hopefully this will register now) of this evil, which is not the case for most of the people buying this stuff here.

Infact not only piracy....the fact that the developers/publishers rob/con your money by promising you something and not delivering on it after receiving your money....thats as bothersome for me as well. According to me...both needs to stop immediately (along with a lot more stuff going around in this world).

Um, no it's not. Stealing it stealing. It's wrong. There's absolutely no grey area. I'm sure Chief would LOVE to hear about how the theft and any illegal copying of Ashes Cricket 2013 that might happen is "Subjective". Do tell us...

Well if you start taking the comments in the context they are written in rather than picking them in isolation, you would actually live in a new world where you would understand new stuff !!! Anyways, here is what I wrote:

Morals, Right & Wrong......all these are very subjective and open to perception. What may be morally wrong in your perception maybe the most righteous thing in someone else's perception (and thats why we have rapes, murders, robberies.....and even terrorist attacks in the name of Jihad). There has to be legislation and strict control to prevent the people from doing what is not acceptable by a majority. If everything is left to the people to decide for themselves what is right or wrong without any consequences for choosing the wrong, God protect us!!! What is important though, and thats what I have been talking about all this time, it to provide awareness to the people about what is right or wrong, and then have legislation to control the wrong decisions.

As you can clearly see, I am talking about human nature here. Morals, Right and Wrong, all are actually very subjective. Let me give you an example to show you how morals, right and wrong are subjective in nature. It is because of this that You see a terrorist say on tv that he is going to heaven for killing innocents. In his list of Morals, in his perception....it is the most holy thing he is doing. But in mine and your perception, it is the most cruel/evil thing he is doing. So how do we decide who is right or wrong here? We do it based on the general perception and morals of the majority of the public, which in this case states that what he is doing is evil and what we are thinking is the right thing based on what is generally accepted. And that is what I clearly said in the statement which was (mis)quoted by you. So now in context with piracy, whether it is correct or not is based on one's perception. And how do you change a perception....its by feeding that person with awareness on how this is not the right thing to do.

Now, you may continue to jump up and down in excitement stating stealing is stealing....wrong is wrong...there is no perception...AC13 developer should get all his money in his bank....but the fact remains, that till the time the govt doesnt step up (as only they have the resources for such mass arrangements) and starts to educate people on the evils of piracy and what they are doing is illegal....the people who are buying this stuff would continue to buy it without any guilt as they are not even aware of what they are doing.

____________

One more...

If you don't have the money to have an appropriately spec'd computer to play a next generation PC game, then yeah... you probably don't have the means to purchase the game legally, therefore it doesn't hurt anyone's sales. It's like expecting a developer to release a PS2 version of the game for PS3 users, because you can't afford to buy a PS3.

That thought process is true for the country you are living in and with the lifestyle there but is completely flawed and inappropriate for a country like India. Let me tell you why (and I have to repeat again what I said before....sigh)..In India the gaming culture is not as big as the western countries. Infact I would say it would not even be 5% of what it is there. Over here, I would say since the last two years, people have just started to play video games in a more regular manner. And since they are neither in the category of casual gamers nor in the category of hardcore gamers, they still have not yet ventured out to buy expensive rigs for playing games. Its not because they do not have the money, it is because it is not a priority for them. That is the reason the PS2, though being almost dead in the western countries, is right now the highest selling console in India (Im sure the other Indians here will agree with me on this). While earlier (6-7 years back) people were buying pirated copies of ps2 games here since the original were not easily available here, almost everyone now buys the original discs (they cost anywhere between 500-1000 INR), as for them, that is what is easily available now. So it clearly shows two things:

a) People are willing to buy the original game discs
b) People are not into hardcore gaming yet, and thus, it is not in their priority list to upgrade their gear to the latest expensive ones. That is why the demand for ps2 here is on an all time high, and it started just 3-4 years back when the western world had moved onto the ps3.

Based on the above two points, I made the suggestion to have an option for low resolution graphics as well that would enable the people to play the game on their i3 CPU with 4GB ram but the onboard Intel graphics card....as for them...buying an additional graphics card is not on their priority list. They are still happy with cricket 2007 if your game is not playable on their pc, as for them "even cricket 2007 is new and exciting".

Life teaches people that not everybody gets to own the cool toys... something I learned when I was very young.

I am glad you learnt a valuable lesson so young....I got a feeling you were a slow learner . Anyways, on a personal note, I wish soon there is a world where 'EVERY KID' can own a cool toy. Its sad when the only reason I got to play with a cool toy was because I was born in a home were my parents had money, while another kid was born in a home where they did not have much. A labourer works as hard (or much harder) than a manager in a firm, yet he gets nothing while the manager walks away with a big bank account. If you look at life closely, it actually teaches you to share stuff with one another (thats the reason some of us have something the others dont)....but then our sad human nature kicks in and tells us...ITS MINE....JUST MINE

 

[Biggs]

Okay, cool... whatever.

You're just going around in circles. It's pretty clear you support (or are the very best apathetic) towards stealing computer games and/or copyrighted material, so I'm done here... Just one thing...

the fact that the developers/publishers rob/con your money by promising you something and not delivering on it after receiving your money....thats as bothersome for me as well.

Utterly ridiculous.

Game developers owe you NOTHING. This entitlement attitude you have makes your argument fall apart time and time again. If you buy a game, and it's not what you expected. Tough luck. Ever read the blurb on the back of a book, only to finish it and find out it's not what you expected? Tough luck. Game developers make bad games and good games, I doubt any developer goes out to make a bad game. Sometimes they're able to include everything they want and sometimes they don't...

You can either wait to read reviews or play-test or be patient and smart with your money, or you can be impulsive and buy it sight-unseen. The choice is in your hands. Developers owe you nothing.

Be smart.

 

[angad]

You're just going around in circles. It's pretty clear you support (or are the very best apathetic) towards stealing computer games and/or copyrighted material, so I'm done here... Just one thing...

Is that what you interpreted from all that I said about curbing piracy, educating people about it, me being against it??? Lol....I have nothing more to say!!! I pretty much expected you would be stuck on that...till one fine day you eat mentos (the indian chewing gum....ul like it...trust me)....!

Utterly ridiculous.

Game developers owe you NOTHING. This entitlement attitude you have makes your argument fall apart time and time again. If you buy a game, and it's not what you expected. Tough luck. Ever read the blurb on the back of a book, only to finish it and find out it's not what you expected? Tough luck. Game developers make bad games and good games, I doubt any developer goes out to make a bad game. Sometimes they're able to include everything they want and sometimes they don't...

You can either wait to read reviews or play-test or be patient and smart with your money, or you can be impulsive and buy it sight-unseen. The choice is in your hands. Developers owe you nothing.

Be smart.

Really they don't??? Hmm....Mentos again!!!

 

[Biggs]

I'm a gummy bears kinda guy...

 

[Chief]

I pretty much expected you would be stuck on that...till one fine day you eat mentos (the indian chewing gum....ul like it...trust me)....!

I'm very partial to Mentos already, but I don't think it's Indian? It's a worldwide brand which originated in Italy as far as I know?
Or is it a different thing?

I am fascinated by this debate. Hoping it will stay a debate based in facts rather than spiralling into squabbling though.

 

[angad]

I'm a gummy bears kinda guy...

Lol...I like them all too ...

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I'm very partial to Mentos already, but I don't think it's Indian? It's a worldwide brand which originated in Italy as far as I know?
Or is it a different thing?

I am fascinated by this debate. Hoping it will stay a debate based in facts rather than spiralling into squabbling though.

Yeah, my bad....its a worldwide brand ! I wanted to refer to their Indian slogan though.....felt it is apt for both the fellow member as well as the worldwide ignorance (intentional and unintentional) towards Piracy !