Limiting Piracy of Cricket Games

Okay, cool... whatever.

You can either wait to read reviews or play-test or be patient and smart with your money, or you can be impulsive and buy it sight-unseen. The choice is in your hands. Developers owe you nothing.

Be smart.

I agree whole-heartedly with this, but I would agree with Angad to an extent: there HAVE been instances where developers/publishers have pushed the boundaries of delivering on promises. In fact recently there was one that advertised particular features that just weren't in the game. That's pretty black and white fraudulent. They are very seldom though, and proper legal standards and practices which could be used to bring them to account.

I've seen a lot of cases though where it's a case that people seem to think that if they don't like a meal, or a movie, they are entitled to their money back. I don't think they are.
You research a purchase: you get food/movie recommendations, listen to experts, see trailers and any information you can get and then you buy... or not. What's the phrase? "Buyer beware".
 
I could make a Mentos metaphor for AC13 pricing if you like - even the major supermarkets here occasionally stock parallel imports of Mentos, because the regional pricing that makes them the cheap candy they need to be in any market means that it's possible to import from SEA nations and send them around the country and still be cheaper than the local stock and deliver profit margins for the retailers.

If you make something that can be easily transported and is of the same quality at a low enough price to suit market norms, you create grey markets.

The major difference is that Mentos clearly sell in enough volume in the other markets that the issue doesn't mean that they have to cut production/put prices up in those markets to stop it. A cricket game however you don't have that to fall back on.

Likewise, the relative difficulty of organising bulk Mentos importations vs a single copy of a game is one that prevents a Mentos glut in the market that would push down prices to anything like those overseas.

I like the fruit ones.
 
"Eat Mentos and turn on your mind's idea lightbulb"

Hmm. A mint that makes you smarter?

Now what were we just saying about dubious marketing? :D
 
I agree whole-heartedly with this, but I would agree with Angad to an extent: there HAVE been instances where developers/publishers have pushed the boundaries of delivering on promises. In fact recently there was one that advertised particular features that just weren't in the game. That's pretty black and white fraudulent. They are very seldom though, and proper legal standards and practices which could be used to bring them to account.

I've seen a lot of cases though where it's a case that people seem to think that if they don't like a meal, or a movie, they are entitled to their money back. I don't think they are.
You research a purchase: you get food/movie recommendations, listen to experts, see trailers and any information you can get and then you buy... or not. What's the phrase? "Buyer beware".

Thanks....and my statement was only to the extent of some publishers/developers writing stuff at the back of the disc cover, which is either not in the game or is just broken (like online multiplayer in IC2010 :p)!!

I never said that if the game is not fun to play, then it means the developer has cheated us. I clearly stated that if the developer/publisher promises something 'officially' then it should be in the game and in a working condition!! If it isnt, and if the developers do not add/rectify it, then they have conned/cheated the customer.

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I could make a Mentos metaphor for AC13 pricing if you like - even the major supermarkets here occasionally stock parallel imports of Mentos, because the regional pricing that makes them the cheap candy they need to be in any market means that it's possible to import from SEA nations and send them around the country and still be cheaper than the local stock and deliver profit margins for the retailers.

If you make something that can be easily transported and is of the same quality at a low enough price to suit market norms, you create grey markets.

The major difference is that Mentos clearly sell in enough volume in the other markets that the issue doesn't mean that they have to cut production/put prices up in those markets to stop it. A cricket game however you don't have that to fall back on.

Likewise, the relative difficulty of organising bulk Mentos importations vs a single copy of a game is one that prevents a Mentos glut in the market that would push down prices to anything like those overseas.

I like the fruit ones.

Lol...good job :)!

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"Eat Mentos and turn on your mind's idea lightbulb"

Hmm. A mint that makes you smarter?

Now what were we just saying about dubious marketing? :D

It worked for MattW ;)
 
Thanks....and my statement was only to the extent of some publishers/developers writing stuff at the back of the disc cover, which is either not in the game or is just broken (like online multiplayer in IC2010 :p)!!

I never said that if the game is not fun to play, then it means the developer has cheated us. I clearly stated that if the developer/publisher promises something 'officially' then it should be in the game and in a working condition!! If it isnt, and if the developers do not add/rectify it, then they have conned/cheated the customer.

There's a good article here talking about that sort of thing: worth a read. Some consumer rights differ slightly (I think at least!) from territory to territory though.
 
I don't think what the other Indian friends are saying is true in all parts.

First of all, true that some are ignorant about legal and illegal stuff but regarding movies and games, its nearly impossible for anyone to not know its illegal.
With regard to the T-shirts, very bad example. Illegal sales of dresses don't happen, atleast in Chennai. Although what does happen is the production of a replica that resembles the original and they put up the original company's name with a spelling mistake. Similar to unlicensed player in a game.
Otherwise, there are some brands that are sold only in such bazaars, where its all upto bargain. Its like wholesale.
Likewise for spectacles, consumer electronics, and almost any other good, they are put on wholesale on some parts. Its not illegal; we(consumers) are just skipping the dealers who take up the extra percentage.

Back to 'real' piracy issues, this was from a recent article in our local newspaper,
"Video pirates have thrived as part of a network that included some film producers and theatre owners. Usually the pirated version of a movie is circulated after copying the master copy of the film. The film producers sell their films before the release in theatres in foreign countries. The agencies which buy the rights make a copy out of it and sell it to pirates in other countries for a huge price."
Here is the full article...TIMESOFINDIA

While this is the case for movies, its slightly different for games. As I said earlier, they are imported to our city after 3-4 weeks post-release. They are hard copies of the their internet versions. It all starts from the internet.
Meanwhile, our internet speeds have improved and that means some choose to download through bit-torrents, but that culture is yet to have a big effect. Not everyone wants to wait that long(as games have increased significantly in size").

I could just go on and talk more on this. But I'm afraid the thread is already overloading with similar sounding comments.
 
Meanwhile, our internet speeds have improved and that means some choose to download through bit-torrents, but that culture is yet to have a big effect. Not everyone wants to wait that long(as games have increased significantly in size").

This simply is not true. A huge bunch of people do this thing, they've done a lot in the past and that list has just grown up recently, simply due to the speed.
 
You can either wait to read reviews or play-test or be patient and smart with your money, or you can be impulsive and buy it sight-unseen. The choice is in your hands. Developers owe you nothing.

Well, I wouldn't agree with that. Mostly, all this is not a "developer" call. Its "Product Management / Business Management" that makes a final call on when the game/product is to be released, whether the game/product is in a good enough state to be released etc. This is largely driven by economics than anything else (Releasing at a particular time can bring enough more profits than later on even though quality is susceptible. Whether the cost associated with fixing the remaining issues is viable etc.).

However, having spent enough time in the software industry in multiple roles, releasing a product/game with level 1/2 bugs where the usability is seriously broken is not ethical.

I've seen enough cricket games being released with level 1/2 bugs. Things that could be found out within 10 mins of playing the game. The product/business management in those cases went ahead with the release knowing that these things are broken. Which in my opinion is not ethical though not illegal.

I'm sure Chief here, who is a part of product management, can agree with some of this.
 
Well, I wouldn't agree with that. Mostly, all this is not a "developer" call. Its "Product Management / Business Management" that makes a final call on when the game/product is to be released, whether the game/product is in a good enough state to be released etc. This is largely driven by economics than anything else (Releasing at a particular time can bring enough more profits than later on even though quality is susceptible. Whether the cost associated with fixing the remaining issues is viable etc.).

However, having spent enough time in the software industry in multiple roles, releasing a product/game with level 1/2 bugs where the usability is seriously broken is not ethical.

I've seen enough cricket games being released with level 1/2 bugs. Things that could be found out within 10 mins of playing the game. The product/business management in those cases went ahead with the release knowing that these things are broken. Which in my opinion is not ethical though not illegal.

I'm sure Chief here, who is a part of product management, can agree with some of this.

Yeah, agree with that, games are released with all sorts of problems,IC10 big example. That is wrong, and they know the paying public are mostly desperate for the game and won't wait for a review before buying. The big crime would be not fixing it after release.
 
You can either wait to read reviews or play-test or be patient and smart with your money, or you can be impulsive and buy it sight-unseen. The choice is in your hands. Developers owe you nothing.

Well, I wouldn't agree with that. Mostly, all this is not a "developer" call. Its "Product Management / Business Management" that makes a final call on when the game/product is to be released, whether the game/product is in a good enough state to be released etc. This is largely driven by economics than anything else (Releasing at a particular time can bring enough more profits than later on even though quality is susceptible. Whether the cost associated with fixing the remaining issues is viable etc.).

However, having spent enough time in the software industry in multiple roles, releasing a product/game with level 1/2 bugs where the usability is seriously broken is not ethical.

I've seen enough cricket games being released with level 1/2 bugs. Things that could be found out within 10 mins of playing the game. The product/business management in those cases went ahead with the release knowing that these things are broken. Which in my opinion is not ethical though not illegal.

I'm sure Chief here, who is a part of product management, can agree with some of this.

I find it impossible to disagree with Biggs here. It might be deemed 'unethical' to release a game with bugs, but no-one is forcing anyone to buy a game.
you choose to buy it having not played it before or waiting for trusted reviews etc you have no one to blame but yourself if you are not happy with purchase.
 
However, having spent enough time in the software industry in multiple roles, releasing a product/game with level 1/2 bugs where the usability is seriously broken is not ethical.

I've seen enough cricket games being released with level 1/2 bugs. Things that could be found out within 10 mins of playing the game. The product/business management in those cases went ahead with the release knowing that these things are broken. Which in my opinion is not ethical though not illegal.

I'm sure Chief here, who is a part of product management, can agree with some of this.

Generally the definitions used would be something like: P(riority)1 "Unshippable". P2 "Serious", P3 "Annoying" and P4 "Suggestion".
It's INCREDIBLY rare for a game to feature a P1 bug. Especially with console games that go through rigorous testing with the platform holders. I wouldn't say that it was "illegal" (it may well have been missed by all concerned) but I'd certainly say it was grounds for recall/refund etc.
P2's are the ones that I think we're talking more about here. Again, very rare that any of these would be allowed to slip through. These are definitely ethically out.
P3's are generally classified as such because they *can* occur, but very rarely. It's your P3 bugs that impact quality rather than functionality (usually dependent on how many there are!).
P4 bugs are generally suggestions for improvements rather than actual errors per say.

What you say about developers, we entering an era where an awful lot of them are self-publishing their games, so increasingly all the traditional publishing functions ARE being handled by developers. Some of the time that works great, and others not so well: They are quite different skill sets.
Generally speaking the developer wants to make a great game. But usually they need funding and that's finite. The investor (not always a publisher) wants to make money back BUT they know that to do that they need a good game. On most of the projects I work on, my role is usually to sit in between the two parties and make sure that the balance between them is maintained. I listen to everyone's interests and mediate the best solutions.

Ultimately YES, usually whoever is paying to make the game makes that final call on when they release it. But hey: bear in mind that a fairly normal upfront cost is, say, 45% software development, but another 45% to actually manufacture all the discs etc, and 15% to market it... So you're spending a HUGE amount of money just to get it out there: it makes VERY little sense to manufacture something broken.
IMO no-one knowingly releases a defective game - A publisher doesn't want that stain on their resume just as much as a developer doesn't: there's no real "cut and run" in a moderated environment like console, steam, apps store etc.
But bugs sometimes can be missed - there's then a serious consideration of A) How detrimental to the game is it? B) How often does it happen? C) How much will it cost to fix it? D) Does A+B+C make it worthwhile? And yes, I *have* seen situations where the conclusion of D) is "No". And no: I won't list them, out of professional etiquette. :D

Not sure that actually addressed your points, but some FYI stuff if not!
 
Yeah, agree with that, games are released with all sorts of problems,IC10 big example. That is wrong, and they know the paying public are mostly desperate for the game and won't wait for a review before buying. The big crime would be not fixing it after release.

None of the bugs in IC10 qualified as anything other than L3 on Chief's list imo.
 
But bugs sometimes can be missed - there's then a serious consideration of A) How detrimental to the game is it? B) How often does it happen? C) How much will it cost to fix it? D) Does A+B+C make it worthwhile? And yes, I *have* seen situations where the conclusion of D) is "No". And no: I won't list them, out of professional etiquette. :D

Not sure that actually addressed your points, but some FYI stuff if not!

I understand how the business in general works, though I don't have much insight into gaming. It was good to hear your perspective. And just to be clear, I wasn't specifically talking about any of your games, because I haven't played them and haven't heard of any P1 or P2s in them.

If my memory serves me right, it was Cricket 2004 that I bought, and found out within 5 mins of playing the game that the AI gets run out all the time. There was no way to bowl in that game without having the AI run itself out. That was a P2 where an entire feature was totally broken. Yet, they decided to ship with that. It was absolutely unethical of EA to ship that and it was so common that there was no way QA would have missed that.

Ps. It's been a really long time and I hope my description of the bug is right. I gave up bowling on that game after a few attempts and haven't touched that game in the last 7-8 years.
 
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EA and unethical in the same sentence?!?

I believe that somewhere in the world, in a rare coincidence, a bear has just taken a dump in a wooded area.
 
None of the bugs in IC10 qualified as anything other than L3 on Chief's list imo.

I am sorry but broken online gameplay was a P1 or P2 in my book. I generally play online and I wasn't able to complete even one game on IC2010. How the online piece wasn't caught earlier is beyond me but you can't call it "annoying" or a "suggestion".
 

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