Limiting Piracy of Cricket Games

[angad]

Even Rs. 999 is still over 3 times less expensive than the retail price elsewhere...

Movie and dinner is around 500 INR? Interesting. Is that for one? In fact, can you break that down? Like how much is the movie ticket?
Does anyone know how much an iPad costs in India? Or a Big Mac (although i believe they call it something else as it's made with Chicken there?)?

Yeah....a movie (at a multiplex) costs 200-350 bucks per ticket, but you need to keep in mind that there are A LOT of single screen theaters here that cost 60 bucks a ticket. I am kind of 50:50 on this.....:

a) one part of me says The people who go these malls to watch movie are (in all probability) the ones who anyways would buy the original disc from a 'shop' in the mall, so they are not the target audience for limiting piracy, provided you get the discs to these shops on day 1 (if you see the numbers, the highest selling games here have been the ones that were available in store from day1, with some form advertisements printed outside these shops atleast 2-3 weeks before the release). So, if you just go by numbers, what percentage of the pc gaming population goes to such malls??

b) The second part states (and this is the imp one) that the specs for these newer games are so high that it is 'only' those people who have that kind of expensive pc would be able to play this game anyways. In India, if 60% of the population has access to a computer, atleast 55% would have the default setup without any additional graphics card (i.e they just have the internal intel etc graphics card), and all the previous cricket games post 2009 were not playable on the intel card. That, I feel, is a BIG reason for the game not doing well here. You may price it at Rs.2 and yet people wont buy it as they just wont be able to play it. As numerous post before mine have pointed out, look at cricket 07 from EA, it did damn well here (going by the numbers that played the game....not necessarily bought it) because of the low specs. So if the developers can provide the option for playing the game on such pc with minimal textures, shadows etc.....it will make a lot of people play it and the more people wanting to play the game, the higher the probability of them buying it.

SO I think more than the pricing, its the system requirements that need to be catered to first. Also, a PC game above Rs.999 is a BIG NO if you want to sell here. Atleast till the time you can establish a name in the market.

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First release it on consoles and then 3 or more months later release it on PC, that's what Rockstar games does with GTA, they release it like 6 months later after consoles release lol.

Thats an awesome suggestion too dude!! OR just release a demo before the game launch for consoles. A lot of people here who are not sure of a game first play it on pc (pirated version) to try it out and only if they like it would they buy it for a console, mainly for online play.

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ya the game price will be around 1500 becoz in india movie + kfc = 1000 . if we able able to spent 1000 on eating in morning its go outside , but if we purchase its mean we feel pleasure and kept with us more than ayear . out of 100 crores population in india if 500000 people purchase u get around 75 crores

If you are using the movie prices as a reference, do keep in mind that the population here pays for a movie that they feel is worth going to the hall for. I think all of us know what happens to the rest of the movies (hint: Torrent) . And this is worldwide....not only in India.

Anyways, while we are talking about piracy, it will be interesting to know the ratio of 'gaming population with money to buy original disc from pocket money' to 'the people from this population pirating the games' worldwide. I am sure the ratio would be pretty similar worldwide!!!

 

[MattW]

b) The second part states (and this is the imp one) that the specs for these newer games are so high that it is 'only' those people who have that kind of expensive pc would be able to play this game anyways. In India, if 60% of the population has access to a computer, atleast 55% would have the default setup without any additional graphics card (i.e they just have the internal intel etc graphics card), and all the previous cricket games post 2009 were not playable on the intel card. That, I feel, is a BIG reason for the game not doing well here. You may price it at Rs.2 and yet people wont buy it as they just wont be able to play it. As numerous post before mine have pointed out, look at cricket 07 from EA, it did damn well here (going by the numbers that played the game....not necessarily bought it) because of the low specs. So if the developers can provide the option for playing the game on such pc with minimal textures, shadows etc.....it will make a lot of people play it and the more people wanting to play the game, the higher the probability of them buying it.

Is not being compatible not a good thing?

Think about it - if someone can't afford a PC with reasonable specs, then they likely also can't afford to purchase a legitimate copy of a game.

If you pirate a game your system can't play then it hasn't really hurt anyone - and as long as there's a demo to test system specs - then I can't see a large pile of people who fall into both the category of being able/willing to pay a fair price for a game (1500 INR still puts you near half of the cost in the west, the game doesn't get cheaper to make and volume isn't magic, otherwise supply-side economics would work) and who can't afford a console or a PC able to run the game.

 

[angad]

To The chief:
Realistically speaking, for Ashes 2013 in particular, here are a few things which I feel you can think about:

a) Have the game playable on lower specs. By lower specs, I mean the graphic card requirement. If the game is playable (irrespective of the graphic quality) on onboard Intel (and other such types) graphics card, you will have a wider consumer reach.

b) Price the game at max Rs.999, if possible.

c) Make the game available in stores from Day 1.

d) Have some form of advertisement (printed would do) outside the shops and malls, atleast 2-3 weeks before the game release. Do not state more than one line for 'Ashes', as it is not 'as' widely followed here as it is in Aus and Eng. Instead, you can show pics of players in Indian Kits and talk about T20 cricket (as sadly, the newer generation is more interested in watching T20 rather than tests).

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Is not being compatible not a good thing?

Think about it - if someone can't afford a PC with reasonable specs, then they likely also can't afford to purchase a legitimate copy of a game.

If you pirate a game your system can't play then it hasn't really hurt anyone - and as long as there's a demo to test system specs - then I can't see a large pile of people who fall into both the category of being able/willing to pay a fair price for a game (1500 INR still puts you near half of the cost in the west, the game doesn't get cheaper to make and volume isn't magic, otherwise supply-side economics would work) and who can't afford a console or a PC able to run the game.

Well I agree with your point, but here we are talking about a change in the general culture. To be able to do that, first and foremost, I need to get a lot of people to play my game. With more people playing my game (and if the game is good), I can generate more loyalty in the furture versions. It would be immature to think that the whole culture can be changed with the release of this game. In all probability, it will only happen with the second or third versions of the game, that people will be familiar with the brand and would recognize it in the ads and then be eager to buy it from the store on day 1! Also, since this is a cricket game + India we are talking about, this is a game that 'can' bring a lot more people into the hardcore gaming world, who then might think of upgrading their setup.

 

[sahilnatu]

Do not state more than one line for 'Ashes', as it is not 'as' widely followed here as it is in Aus and Eng.

One line is still too much. To be honest, don't mention anything about The Ashes (Series, not the game. We want the game badly :-P), because nobody is interested in it here in India. We watch the Border-Gavaskar Trophy against the Aussies and the Pataudi Trophy against the Englishmen, but not The Ashes.
For example, me and many of my friends got AC09 4 yrs back, but none of us played the Ashes, eventhough it was licensed. We preferred playing for India (with those crappy names & same faces).
The Ashes (Series) cannot sell your game here. Opt for something that'd interest the ppl more.

Edit: It doesn't read as I want it to.
What I mean is that, don't go on promoting as the Ashes game (though it is, actually). You can promote it by showcasing the various features & stuff to attract the ppl.

Hope it sounds better now.

 

[Kshitiz_Indian]

I have read most of the posts in this thread, and while I would like to make a well structured and elaborate contribution, I would have to do that sometime later. A couple of points though:

Price: I read about the whole discussion and the numbers breakdown by chief, but at the end of the day I think it's a harsh reality that above Rs. 500 is just too much for a game, in our culture.
You have to look it from the target audience in question here.

At one side, you could be targeting the college goers. 18-22 year olds, who game a lot (and I'm in an engineering institute, people game A LOT). These are the kind of people who can afford to buy games around Rs. 1000, but simply don't because they are available for free. It is this market in which you can try to instill some awareness (and some of it is starting to work, from what I see around me). Affordable pricing here coupled with online play (and that means LAN play too) only in the legitimate version could actually lure these people into buying the legit copy. Good games spread like wildfire in the college culture here; people spend hours doing multiplayer gaming.

On the other side, there are school going kids who are actually the craziest lot I can see going for games. Thing is, these do not manage their own money and ask their parents for buying them stuff. For their parents, buying them a console or a PC which can play games was in itself such a big investment that spending 1000-2000 for every other game seems outright outrageous. It's not the right thinking, I'm just pointing out how it happens around here.

Please keep in mind that we are talking of a place which is still technically behind the western nations in the IT Revolution (not talking about just the metropolitans, but the country as a whole). As a result, values/opinions about these things are pretty different.

Advertisement: I agree that Television adverts are way overkill here, for a project this sized. I believe, however that print media advertisements can work pretty good.

There are a lot of technology magazines like Digit, Chip which sell pretty well around here and targets the tech-savvy audience. Capturing these people should be a good start, because it is they who 'recommend' things and practices to others around them. If you can catch these with nicely made adverts (Which should not be too expensive; I've seen offers of as low as 4000-5000 INR for some space on a page in these magazines) that also somehow convey the message that the game is cheap (unlike other games) and brings you a lot if you buy legit (like Online play), it should be a good start.

Also, I am not sure how much newspaper adverts cost; if someone has some idea please shed some light on it. I've seen some pretty fantastic adverts in newspapers recently, finding very new innovative ways to catch a person's attention. Something like this also has a very large reach!

 

[SibiNaayagam]

The highest price for a movie ticket in Chennai is at Rs.120 and lowest at Rs.60 while according to a govt. order, a compulsory two rows of 'wooden seats' are sold at Rs.10.
And food, it varies. On an average its Rs.150-200.
The point is, watching movies and having a dinner at a restaurant are part of our culture. We have nearly 75 theatres in our city alone. And nearly 20 are high end, with a couple of IMAX theatres coming up this year.
While gaming is not as much as part of our culture. A price range of Rs.999-Rs.1499 would work when parents buy them for their teenage children. But how would you expect a 18+ guy buy a game priced at more than a 1000INR?

When Ashes 09 was delayed here, I was told by the shop salesman that they have had a lot of people showing interest in the title and a lot of pre orders taken in.
Its simply because of its price point. You gotta risk it somewhere. I remember noticing an Ashes 09 adv. poster in a regional movie's backdrop(2 years back), but I never came across one in plain sight. Atleast Billboards please? Metro stations, bus-stops have huge stationary crowds.
And its true that Ashes licence is going to get you nowhere in India. Although you can try putting up Clarke's picture on our box instead of Cook. We love Pup more.

Note: EA 07 with planetcricket mods are put in packages and sold at the blackmarket stores too. They read EA Cricket 08 or 09 or IPL. And that thing sells big time. So the demand for cricket games is there; rest is upto you to decide.

 

[Biggs]

Umm..I don't think so. Movie ticket prices here in India are ridiculously high (considering the scale of economies). I am not sure where you get that they don't make any money out of ticket sales (or if it is specific to a country, because I doubt it's true in India).

Let me put it this way, there's not many cinema operators in the world making money out of JUST screening movies anymore. F&B, Restaurants, Coffee Shops and ancillary sales (3D Glasses, T-Shirts, etc) all generate theater owners more money than ticket sales. Why do you think when you walk through the door a can of coke costs you almost three times the amount it does at the supermarket outside? It's called "Captured Consumer" and it works, really well.

Ticket prices, compared with other countries, are ridiculously cheap in India. On a socio-economic level they may be "expensive" but in a global comparison, they're cheaper than most other countries.

In Thailand, for example, I paid about US$3.20 to see a 3D film not so long ago in a huge theater with better sound and visuals than I would get anywhere in London, Sydney or LA. The theatre? ...owned/operated by a Mall.

Smart business model.

___________________

As for what Matt said further up, I think he's hit the nail on the head there...

 

[puddleduck]

Regarding the cinema, popcorn is one of the most profitable industries in the world. Just think how cheap it is to grow corn... then either put some salt or some sugar on it. Now charge ?5 for a tub of it at a markup of around 2000%. Well played Mr Cinema Man. Well played.

Also, this thread kind of highlights something... which is limiting piracy is pointless, maximising revenue however is something else entirely... also, don't bother releasing too many in India. If it sells well, excellent, if not, you haven't been ruined by all the the same people demanding a cricket game and simultaneously not wanting to pay for it

 

[anveshs]

Also, this thread kind of highlights something... which is limiting piracy is pointless, maximising revenue however is something else entirely... also, don't bother releasing too many in India. If it sells well, excellent, if not, you haven't been ruined by all the the same people demanding a cricket game and simultaneously not wanting to pay for it

I feel that not many people are demanding a game and simultaneously not paying for it,I agree that games will be pirated heavily in India but they are not demanding a cricket game,only a very small portion in this community are.So the last statement may not be true in most of the cases..

 

[Chief]

I feel that not many people are demanding a game and simultaneously not paying for it,I agree that games will be pirated heavily in India but they are not demanding a cricket game,only a very small portion in this community are.So the last statement may not be true in most of the cases..

Incidentally, Cricket Revolution ticked a lot of the boxes on quite a few points mentioned thus far. I have no clue how well it's actually done though.

 

[MattW]

Incidentally, Cricket Revolution ticked a lot of the boxes on quite a few points mentioned thus far. I have no clue how well it's actually done though.

One point there of course is that I'm sure they had a way lower development budget (both by utilising a pre-built game engine and being developed in Pakistan), thus a far lower break even point. They also made a really lacking game feature and depth wise and the only difficulty level was bad controls.

The other factor, at least in the World Cup sequel Cricket Power is that they were backed by a company out of Abu Dhabi - so endless oil money can supplement the already low cost base.

So basically, to get a game to be profitable (well they haven't made another in two years so it's hard to imagine it was that good) you'd need to make one as bad as Cricket Revolution was.

Their release of it as Pepsi Cricket Revolution was interesting. While it would cause a problem with being open for modding, which would suck for us, the model of an advertising supported game would be interesting - occasional connections to the internet to update in stadium ad-boards with sponsorship, no licencing and cut down game modes and depth - if advertising is lucrative enough in the market that it could be a subsidy to the real cost it could open new bases.

That said it was certainly annoying for paying customers to find out about the free version of the game - a few on here vowed never to buy from them again after that experience.

 

[Biggs]

I agree that games will be pirated heavily in India

I've read this statement a few times now... bothers me. Any folk here from India have a problem with this being a "matter of fact" statement? Or is it just a cultural thing, ie; "Well it happens, but what can I do about it?". You know pirating a game is theft, right?... You're basically going into Chief's house and taking his money.

 

[MattW]

Going into Chief's house and offering him $10 for all his stuff is about the same as taking it for free though, a nominal value might be nice to have, but unless it's a fair one then there's not much point. Especially if you pay on an obscure credit card and there's a massive transaction fee that means he only gets 20 cents of that.

/hail mary metaphor

 

[Biggs]

...Heh, I like the cut of your jib.

 

[Chief]

One point there of course is that I'm sure they had a way lower development budget (both by utilising a pre-built game engine and being developed in Pakistan), thus a far lower break even point. They also made a really lacking game feature and depth wise and the only difficulty level was bad controls.

The other factor, at least in the World Cup sequel Cricket Power is that they were backed by a company out of Abu Dhabi - so endless oil money can supplement the already low cost base.

So basically, to get a game to be profitable (well they haven't made another in two years so it's hard to imagine it was that good) you'd need to make one as bad as Cricket Revolution was.

Their release of it as Pepsi Cricket Revolution was interesting. While it would cause a problem with being open for modding, which would suck for us, the model of an advertising supported game would be interesting - occasional connections to the internet to update in stadium ad-boards with sponsorship, no licencing and cut down game modes and depth - if advertising is lucrative enough in the market that it could be a subsidy to the real cost it could open new bases.

That said it was certainly annoying for paying customers to find out about the free version of the game - a few on here vowed never to buy from them again after that experience.

Yeah - you really have to plan long term these days. Models are changing though (plenty of mobile games start off as paid and move to F2P models further down the line) and micro-transactions are the future of the more casual games.
I don't believe that high-end games are going anywhere - There's still huge demand for them - But finding a commercially viable way will become harder and harder - You have to make them sustainable.
The mass market are becoming used to getting content for nothing\almost nothing and willingly ignore scale and quality because of this. Discerning gamers are still willing to pay the price for this, but because there are less of them to go around you need to use their investment more wisely - it's not the golden age of 2005-2008 before F2P and decent mobile games came along any more.