Owais Shah - Why the ENG ODI & T20 team must recall him.

[War]

Profile: Richard Levi - The rise of the Leviathan | South Africa Cricket Features | ESPN Cricinfo

Shah cited as a mentor for Current S African T20 sensation Richard Levi:

"He also shared in a 122-run partnership in that game with Owais Shah, who has acted as a mentor to Levi over the past two seasons. "He has spent a lot of time with Owais, talking about the short-form game," Pybus said. "

 

[MUFC1987]

That approach is why England have had such a terribly patchy record in ODI cricket since the 1992 world cup. Not having a proper series by series plan like what successful ODI teams like Australia have had, means ENG would always go into world-cups in bad shape.

I would dispute heavily that just because he is 36, he won't be able to make the 2015 WC Squad. If he is good enough - age won't be an issue - and he will make the team. AUS 2007 WC winning squad have 3-4 guys who were around that age.

I don't know how long you have followed English cricket, but after the 1999/00 ODI series in S Africa, the then ENG selectors dropped Alec Stewart in "planning and testing unproven players" in preparation for the 2003 world cup. Yet come WC 2003 - Stewart was a key member of that squad.

I disagree. I'd argue that England's poor form has been down to not giving talented young players a go when they played well. Instead we've had people like Michael Vaughan and Ian Bell being main members of the One Day squad for far too long, when they simply weren't good enough in that form of the game.

Alec Stewart being dropped is entirely different. The guys coming in then were Chris Read and James Foster. Two guys whose batting you'd describe as average at best, especially at that stage of their careers. It's no surprise they went back to Stewart, because he was still a lot better than what was on the bench. Now though, we have talented, quality players who can't get a game, who deserve a go ahead. Buttler averages 60+ in One Day games at last check, you're telling me he doesn't deserve a chance? Guys like him, Bairstow and Stokes are the future of this England side and deserve a chance. Now is the time. Not in 2 years time when we've tried more experienced guys and they haven't clicked. Because in case you didn't know, there's no guarantee that Shah is going to come back and suddenly bat like Superman. Young players need experience to reach their potential, we shouldn't be putting obstacles in their way.

Having him back in the T20 team for the world-cup wouldn't be a sign of desperation - but rather a simple case of accepting that Shah would strengthen the T20 squad.

Surely a man who is amongst the top 5 T20 run-scorers in the world can make the world-cup squad which is just six months away.

England have a pretty good T20 side. We're the best in the world and have players like I mentioned above who are either in the side and yet to have that many opportunities, or are waiting to get back in it. We don't need Shah in our T20 side to be successful, it's that simple. We already have quality experienced players in that middle order in Morgan and Pietersen.

Like I said, I'm a fan of Shah, but his time has come and gone I'm afraid. And him being a mentor to some South African hardly matters a single bit.

 

[Owzat]

Might as well give the younger blood a try while the meaningless series are around to try them in. I've said before that I'd pick a squad after the World Cup, maybe even 20-25 players who selectors think will be contenders for the next World Cup.

After two years you review who has been a success, replace those who haven't made most in like for like swaps and pick the World Cup squad from that 20-25 player squad. That gives players two years to show their worth, plenty of cricket played in that time.

With Shah it would be as pointless as would bringing back gRamps (again) a few years back, playing Nixon, Udal, and others who were never going to be long term solutions. Shah had his chance, whether or not he was given a fair go is neither here nor there, part of England's problem is a lack of forward vision.

England flog picking the wrong players too long, then turn back to others. For a while it was only ever a question of whether the top six batting would call up Shah or Bopara, now it is Morgan or Bopara. Bowlers is almost the opposite, it is Hobson's choice who comes in and while injuries influence that to some degree, you never quite know who will come in. I'd love to know how many bowlers between 01/01/2000 and now have played just 1-3 Tests for England (in that period) I am betting it is 10+

You have to give players a chance, but also you have to give them the right amount of time. Not changing a winning side is a nice theory, but if you improve on a winning side surely that is better. Not shaw Shah will improve on the squad, he would add experience but then so would loads of players. You could pick Shah or someone the same age who hasn't played ODIs, but of the same county stature, and there's no guarantee Shah will be the better option.

For me England need to abandon a lot of their policies, build for the next World Cup and stop worrying about series results in ODIs inbetween. One thing I think England did get right against Pakistan was to open with two proper batsmen, both made back to back hundreds and we backed it up with proper bowling. Ok the Patel situation isn't ideal, but at least we're maximising our chances of winning by not poncing about with pinch-hitters etc. That leaves the only real decisions being whether to play Patel or a fifth bowler, and personnel. Keep it simple.

 

[Rehan_24]

He was never a class player....

 

[War]

I disagree. I'd argue that England's poor form has been down to not giving talented young players a go when they played well. Instead we've had people like Michael Vaughan and Ian Bell being main members of the One Day squad for far too long, when they simply weren't good enough in that form of the game.

Really??. Kindly highlight some of these talented one-day players during that period who were not given a go when they played well?

Alec Stewart being dropped is entirely different. The guys coming in then were Chris Read and James Foster. Two guys whose batting you'd describe as average at best, especially at that stage of their careers. It's no surprise they went back to Stewart, because he was still a lot better than what was on the bench. Now though, we have talented, quality players who can't get a game, who deserve a go ahead. Buttler averages 60+ in One Day games at last check, you're telling me he doesn't deserve a chance? Guys like him, Bairstow and Stokes are the future of this England side and deserve a chance. Now is the time. Not in 2 years time when we've tried more experienced guys and they haven't clicked. Because in case you didn't know, there's no guarantee that Shah is going to come back and suddenly bat like Superman. Young players need experience to reach their potential, we shouldn't be putting obstacles in their way.

Whether Read and Foster's batting were average is not the point. The Stewart example was to highlight why axing a man after a world-cup despite his advanced age - then planning for the next world cup 3 to 4 years out generally is poor since no team can realistically know what their team for the next world cup will be from that far out.

Although i think Shah should be in the ODI team as well, i can flex with him being ignored in that format - but for T20s with the w/cup just months away when he is one of the top 5 run-scorers in the format across some of best t20 leagues in the world is inexcusable.

I have no problem with Buttler and Bairstow being picked right now, but Shah record means he would clearly add another dimension to the T20 team and somehow a place for him along with those youngsters needs to be found.

England have a pretty good T20 side. We're the best in the world and have players like I mentioned above who are either in the side and yet to have that many opportunities, or are waiting to get back in it. We don't need Shah in our T20 side to be successful, it's that simple. We already have quality experienced players in that middle order in Morgan and Pietersen.

England although the team looks well balanced aren't the best t20 team in the world, t20s around the world a too exhibition like for any team to clearly claim superiority.

Winning one off t20s hardly means anything - teams need to play more 3 match t20 series at minimum like what england are doing in the UAE.

Looking at ENGs t20 top 7, Shah would make it better, so that means both Bairstow and Buttler can't start - one has to be on the bench

Like I said, I'm a fan of Shah, but his time has come and gone I'm afraid. And him being a mentor to some South African hardly matters a single bit.

Ok so you saying some of the young upcoming t20 players in our team like Buttler, Bairstow and Hales couldn't utilize his knowledge as a seasoned t20 player???

 

[Sureshot]

They have KP for that and one of the greatest OD batsman as their coach...

 

[War]

IPL Inbox | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

Owais Shah is a man blessed with talent. Some, however, believe it has been largely wasted throughout his career. A career, some say, defined by failure to grab international opportunities has been a waste.

the thing that annoys me about that is, yes, he didn't quite make the most of the shots he got, he was however next in line for a long period while Bell was the most likely candidate for the drop. now, bell is a classy player but he also got away with quite a lot of rather poor returns because his technique looked so good. it was pretty clear back in 2008 what england wanted was for collingwood to just lay down and give up, but he kept making 100s and they were reluctant to drop bell so I don't think shah quite got the fair crack he could have expected.

 

[War]

Cricket Records | Indian Premier League, 2012 - Rajasthan Royals | Records | Batting and bowling averages | ESPN Cricinfo

Shah ends IPL 2012 as the third highest run-scorer for his team who had a poor tournament.

Sunil Narine also noted he found him in all his success this year, as one of the more difficult batsmen to bowl to. Which is another feather in Shah's cap, considering the t20 world will be played on pitches where spinner like Narine will be in their element.

Former England batsman Owais Shah, who moves about a lot in his crease, is the kind of player Narine finds difficult to bowl at. At Eden Gardens in April, Shah came in to bat for the Rajasthan Royals against KKR after a solid half-century against Mumbai Indians a couple of days before. "He is pretty hard to bowl at because he is not stable at the crease," Narine says. His game plan was to not give Shah any room, and to bowl as close to the wicket as possible. It worked and Shah was stumped when he charged down against one that left him.

 

[sifter132]

Yep I think Shah would be in my T20 squad for sure . Don't know about ODIs though, he's may still be worthy of a best XI spot, but it's time to move on there. Shah had his chance, try someone else.

 

[War]

Yep I think Shah would be in my T20 squad for sure . Don't know about ODIs though, he's may still be worthy of a best XI spot, but it's time to move on there. Shah had his chance, try someone else.

Yea well i just hope the ENG selectors come this view by the time the next ENG T20 squad is picked.